SPEAKER_01 0:00

Everyone has a story, a moment, a lesson, or a piece of their life most people may never hear. Hi, I'm Callie Zamzo, and this is Nobody Knows. Welcome to Nobody Knows. I'm your host, Callie Zamzo. And today's guest is Shelby Bills. She is the owner and CEO of Grey Burn Company. And uh at first glance, you might think this will be a conversation about salons and entrepreneur neuroship and business growth. And there probably will be a little bit of that. Um, but what I'm more interested in are some of the other things that Shelby's working on in her life right now. Um, and just her as a leader, a really an impressive human, uh, if you do a little Googling. Um, and uh, and so I'm excited to have her here talking with us. And uh so I'm gonna jump right in. I'm like, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna give you any warm-up questions here.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Okay, but you ready? Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

You're welcome. I'm glad to have you. I really appreciate you taking the time to be here. Um, okay, so here we go. First question Do you think most people become who they are capable of becoming? Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Ooh, this is a loaded question. Um capable. I I think in my experience in leadership and nurturing um young professionals into more experienced roles, I think a lot of that comes with the guidance and your support system around you and the places and the people that you put yourself into to help you realize what you're capable of. I think sometimes we know that we're capable of more and we don't necessarily have the tools or the skill or the will or the ability to make those things actively come to life. But when you're in rooms with people that see your potential and you're in rooms with people that see your greatness before you do, then those are almost the opportunities that you start to realize it too. And so it's up to you to take that next step when those opportunities present themselves, I think really to step into what's possible and not just stay comfortable.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

So did you learn this yourself? Like, is this because it's like a lesson that you have experienced yourself?

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Yeah, I think, you know, I started in my company when I was 19 years old and I was a natural resistor to um authority. And that kept me small. And when I started putting myself in rooms with other, you know, leaders or salon owners or mentors of people that I wanted to be like, I started to realize what I was doing and how I was operating was holding me back. And I knew I was capable of more, but I didn't necessarily have the tools or I, or I didn't see it or what's what was possible. And so for me, in a really young age, putting myself in those spaces where people were already doing those things allowed me to tap into my own resources and my own confidence and my own skills and abilities, and then also learn from them, which I think then more comes to fruition too.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious about what you said at the very beginning that the authority, there was kind of a pushback there. Um, there's gotta be a little bit of story behind that. Like is this something you when we were very young? Okay. Um and just part of who you were, or was there a reason, do you think?

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Well, I think, you know, I was bullied when I was in middle school. Um, like seven, sixth, seventh grade, I was bullied. And then eighth grade, I became the bully and no one messed with me. And so I was like, no more are people gonna mess with me. And I dyed my hair black and I wore black eyeliner and I did all of these things in eighth grade. And I was resistant to my parents and any type of authority, and I was like, I'm gonna do what I want to do because no one will ever hurt me again. And I started to lean into that and I started to get results. Now, they weren't necessarily good results, but they were results that what I wanted was happening and that I had kind of this powerful presence at a really early age, at like 13 or 14, that I could do things and make things happen in my life. And so as I've gotten older, I've realized that I can hone that. But there is a dark side to that natural resistor and the and the person who doesn't want to be necessarily bullied or told what to do because I'm I'm a leader, right? And I leaders go first. And we, you know, we pave the way, we show the way, we lead the way. And now in leadership, we go back and support the other people. And because of those experiences, it's it's shaped me who I am as a leader. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

I have to dig in further to the transition of that because I think there are people who learn to be bullies young and they never transition out of it or or learn how to harness that in the proper way. Yeah. There had to have been some self-awareness there that was probably unique for as young as you were when you figured it out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

I think my parents saw me going down this dark road, uh, you know, eighth grade, ninth grade, and my mom sent me to this class. And I think back then it was called Spectrum and it was for teens, and it was walk in the talk. And I remember spending three days in this class and like they talked about your feelings and your emotions, and you had to work through it was personal development, right? And I've done those things now as an adult in a different capacity. But that was my first experience of like being able to be in a safe place with other adults who are doing things and share how I was feeling and share what was going on. And I started to create more awareness in that part of my life of like, is this really what I want? And I was getting in more trouble than I was like having a great life. And I do think that that was a pivotal moment for me. And then I'm really close with my little brother. And he shared some news when he was 16, and I think I was 17 or 18, and he shared some news with with me, and he had been being bullied and there was some things happening for him. And I felt this like deep, like motherly instinct over him to protect him. And I was like, no one's gonna ever do that to my brother. And then I was like, wait, but I was doing that to people. And I realized that like that's not who I am or what I what I wanted to do in my life at probably 16, 17 years old. Yeah. Yeah. It's that really is an amazing uh journey.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

Um, because at that age, sometimes I think grabbing power at that age, like any power over anything at that age, um, whether it's being able to push back against your parents or you know, or even bullying somebody. Yeah, there is and and our brains are so quickly trying to form at that point. And you know, so that that's pretty extraordinary. Do you ever think about that and think, okay, that was like it could have gone, it could have gone a whole different direction.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

And I I think that because I had two amazing parents, both entrepreneurs, like they worked a lot, they were there a lot, but they knew that that I was gonna be successful and I wasn't, they were not gonna allow me to fail. And um, but I also knew that like I could handle things, like they taught me how to handle things. I mean, I'm I graduated early from high school. I moved out on my 18th birthday. I mean, I was managing other businesses and doing things really at an early age. And when I start to look back at those stories, those shaped me for where I'm at today and the things that I've been able to do, you know, over the last two decades of my career and my life.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

Yeah. So do you think it was a do you think it was like a a some sort of a courage that you were able to, or was it a fake it till you make it? Was there what because that's that that's interesting. That again, very young. Yeah, but being able to take on leadership, uh, whether it was good or bad yet, yeah, is still that's a that's a that's a difficult age to do that if you don't have, or maybe did you have a mentor? Maybe I should ask that question.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

I mean parents. My parents, yeah. My parents were definitely mentors and and role models in my life. Um, my grandmother was a big role model in my life. And she, I remember her pouring into me and offering me opportunities to go to girls' state and you know, learn about um the government and legislature and how things ran in in high school. And she she would um she would pay for me to go buy a school wardrobe, I think my junior year, because she's like every young woman needs to have their own clothes and their own money and their things. And so she really instilled, I think, me being an individual at that point at a really early age. And then my other grandmother and my grandfather, I mean, they are their work ethic and what I have seen my entire life is is that we go out and we get what we want. Um, and so I became a bulldozer for a while. And then I think I've been able to really harness that and then help others do the same thing. But I saw you asked about courage, and I I think at that early age, it was more to like prove people wrong because they didn't believe in me. And it was probably peers, um, or I was told I wasn't good enough, or I was a cowgirl and that's why I got made fun of, or you know, and I'm like, oh, I'm gonna show you, right? And then I'm like, oh, watch me. And that became kind of a theme in my early 20s of like, oh, I'm gonna prove to everyone that I can do what I said I'm gonna do. And I did it. Yeah, you know. So it and that builds your muscle and it builds more evidence that you can, you know, you can do hard things and big things.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

Yeah. Yeah. It's it's interesting. I similarly, and I've told this story to our listeners before, but I um I I just I guess as an early leader, I wasn't, I didn't know what my style was yet. And so I had to just look to those around me who were mostly men. Yeah. And men that were, you know, and I I use the word aggressive, that makes it sound bad. I but but men who were assertive and who just did what they were gonna do, and you know, and so I thought that's how I had to do, how I had to do. And I still giggle about, you know, my leadership back then, leadership in quotes, because it was it was much more um aggressive than I needed to be. And I think the worst part was because it it worked okay, was it wasn't me. Yeah. So did you have that same thing where you transition and you're like, oh wait, this isn't really the way I want to approach this. So what did that look like?

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Very much um, as a new business owner, I was 25 years old. I had a two-year-old, I was um taking over an existing business, I had partners, but no one would take me seriously because in the world of business at that time at 25 years old, you have, I'm just gonna say 65-year-old white men who run everything. And I was not, I was young, I had long hair, I, you know, I probably I looked feminine, I did my hair, my makeup, my nails, like all of those things. So, like when I showed up into rooms, they didn't look my direction. I wasn't invited to the conversation. Like, I think that was very eye-opening for me at a really early age. And I was like, mm-mm, like I will be at this table and I will be part of this conversation. And I got loud. I got loud for probably like between 25 and maybe 32-ish. And being loud got me into rooms and it got me noticed and I had a voice. And it wasn't always necessarily the way now that I would have done it looking back. Like I I think I was um, what did people call me? The enforcer. I was the enforcer. So they that's kind of they called me the boss hole. So yeah, the boss hole. Yes, right. Yeah. And you know, and when you're you're controlling these things and being young and not having other people to kind of navigate that with that look like you or that or that have a similar story or anything like that. Like I had to figure that out. And I was lucky enough to have people in my life who I was able to share these things with and they would offer me insight or they would offer me mentorship or some guidance or do those things so I could kind of keep moving forward too.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

Okay. Yeah. So can we talk about some of those people and and what like how they were able to help you? And I guess specifically, because a lot of times at that age, it's hard for us to even hear it. So it has to be the right person saying the right words at the right time. Yes. So did you have some of that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

Yeah. You know, the the whole old old saying, um, when the student is ready, the teacher appears. So I think um I wasn't ready for a long time to hear things. And so I had to learn the hard way. I call it a lot of face plants in my business. And with people who like I genuinely cared about on my team that I didn't know how to lead them or I didn't know what to do. And I had um, and my best, she's my best friend now, she's been my best friend for 24 years, 23, 24 years. And she was a product rep for our salon. We were one of her accounts, and we started getting really close, but she was 11 years older than me. So she had life experience in the industry with my particular business. And she knew what I needed and what my team needed. And she was able to offer me a lot of support and kind of guide me into rooms that I needed to be in where other business owners were doing what I was doing. And she saw me, I mean, she believed in me more than I believed in myself at that time when I was, you know, 21, 22. And she's like, You've got this. Like you have she saw something and she was like, You have something, like, let's go do it, which is really amazing to have someone, you know, who we weren't best friends back then, but she saw something in me.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Yeah. Yeah. It's so important. Um, now I know that you'd spend a lot of time looking for that in other people and and and bringing people up. And we'll get a chance to talk about that. But um, but that means so much. It's yeah, it's an incredible thing. And just I guess for clarity, yeah. So the business that you purchase is Grayburn Company. This is so so you've been in this position for quite some time.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

Yes. So I've been in the position, I've been with the company for 24 years. And I started when I was 19 years old working at the front desk, going to Boise State, getting my degree in marketing. Like I'm non-hairdresser, I'm not licensed on purpose. There was a lot of years I wavered whether I should or shouldn't go get licensed because of public opinion. Um, and I'm really glad that I didn't because I have created a culture and a team and a career path in an industry that didn't have framework and it didn't have a lot of longevity. And so I've been able to do things different and work really great with creatives and help them build a life that they love.

unknown 13:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

Why Gray Burn Company? And I and I let me just preface that by saying that I am our family long time. Yeah, yeah, and um, it's it's always, and maybe this is just in my own mind, but it feels very much so like this is like if not the premier, one of the premier, and certainly back then, I think it was the premier place to go and have your hair cut and colored and you know, and and all of the all of it. So why why Grayburn Company versus maybe something that was a starter that was maybe not quite so elite?

SPEAKER_00 14:23

And yeah, I get asked that question a lot. Um when I worked at the front desk, I saw you know, hundreds of clients a month come in and they like they weren't down, but kind of down. Like they walk in the door and they're like, uh, you know, my life is okay. And I'm kind of like low energy. And then when they would leave, it was like they were walking on clouds. And I was like, whoa, like I get to be a part of this business. And it was happening at Gray. And for a little bit, I left and I was a product brand rep in my early 20s. And so I got to be a rep for the state of Idaho and go into all these um salons and work with salon owners. And I saw because I had ran the front desk at Graeber, I could help them in their business, I could help them with their customer experience, I could help them design an actual business model that wasn't just them as the hairdresser or the esthetician trying to run a business. And then I was like, oh, well, I could do that at Graeber. And my boss at the time, when I had left, I'd been gone 10 months and she called me and she was like, We need you back. And I'm like, I'm not coming back to work the front desk. And if you want me to come back, I we do it my way. And um, she was like, okay. And so I came back and I, as the front of house retail manager and um implemented structure and systems and things that we didn't have there and got a lot of hate and a lot of a lot of negativity that came along with that. But I knew it was the right thing to do, and so I kept pushing forward and came back and grew the company and um her and I spent about two and a half years negotiating her buyout and I bought her out when I was 25. And Gray Bird is like, I feel like it's part of my DNA. I've been there longer than I was before not there. You know?

SPEAKER_01 16:03

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Gosh, that that's interesting to think about that um, just that process and what you what you went through. I'm uh yeah. The whole thing has to be, yeah. All right. I'm gonna get back to my questions here as we're just kind of uh rolling. Um so um, so if you go back to young Shelby, um, not that you're not still very young.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

Thank you. Thank you. I did hear that I am um over middle age though, and I had to look it up and it is true. What what does that mean? What what's middle age? Yeah, yeah. And there's now like young olds, middle old, old, old. So that's a whole conversation for you.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Yeah, so Sam, I don't even want to know what that is. Uh I'm feeling I I'm now in my 50s and uh early 50s, but 50s nonetheless. And I I thought it was going to be worrisome. It's actually been fantastic. Yeah. Each age is, I'm like, eh. Yeah. It's all there's just something new to unpack. So I'm I'm not unhappy about it. Okay. So going back to younger Shelby, was there something that younger Shelby Like if you if you think back, because the trajectory is pretty darn good. Like you there's probably probably not a ton that you would change. But are there are there times when you look back at young Shelby and you're like, oh, if I could go back and just tweak this one thing, I think it might have gone better.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Yeah. Um, I'm like, I have a lot on like personal level in relationships, um, choosing your partner, those things, and who you who you want to grow old with and have children with. So young Shelby didn't know that. Young Shelby was like, okay, I want to have a business and have a family and do the things. And um, I had this idea of romance and you know that it was going to look a certain way. And I didn't spend a lot of time thinking about who I was gonna do that with. And so I would definitely go back and revisit that and spend some time with like the life I wanted to live. I do that now all the time, but like young Shelby didn't know how to do that. Yeah. Um, and in business, I think about all of the opportunities that I slowed down or waited for my former business partners or for my team to feel comfortable. I waited for people to feel comfortable for so long that it caused me to almost slide backwards a lot of times. And it took two to three times the amount of time as if I would have just done it if I trusted myself to make the decisions because I I would have known. But young Shelby didn't, right? Like I didn't trust myself at that point and I didn't want to rock the boat and I didn't want to, you know, in owning a legacy company, there's a lot of responsibility that comes with that. And so I had to be really careful with how I handled things um in the past. And that was hard, you know? And now it's like, man, if I would have just done that, imagine where we could be now. You know, and it it's the shoulda, coulda, woulda and whatever, but also like trusting ourselves and and knowing what's possible.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

Right. Yeah. I almost think sometimes because there's a it's so easy to look back. Like I this, this, but then if you really truly go back into those moments in time, you're like, wait a minute, I still think I had to pause because of this. Like, because I think it's easy for us to forget like the particular people that were involved or the timing or the what was happening in the world at that time or the economy, like any of that stuff can quickly go by the wayside when we look backwards and we're like, eh, I could have done this quicker. I could have done that. So I guess is there part of you that looks back on that and and can see those particular things that are there?

SPEAKER_00 19:19

Yeah. And I talk, I talk about that a lot because as I'm, you know, supporting and like guiding other salon owners in their, you know, maybe their new ownership or they're kind of maybe at their that eight-year, 10-year mark. If I didn't go through, if I didn't buy my company in the recession, I wouldn't have the grit that I have now to get out of that time. If if I didn't go through partner buyouts that I brokered myself and figured out how to do, I had no idea how to do those things and I just did it. I wouldn't have bought and sold my second location and opened a barbershop and did all the things and then bought my new location and did the build-out. And I wouldn't have had that evidence knowing that I could do those things. Um, I restructured from an independent model to all team-based employee in an industry that that is like frowned upon. And I wouldn't have the leadership team and the leadership skills that I have and the leaders on my team wouldn't exist and the guests wouldn't get the experience that they get now if I wouldn't have done those things. So, like for every light, there's the dark, for every good, there's the hardship. But like the resilience, the grit, the tenacity that I have now is because of all of those things. I mean, I went through a pandemic. Yeah. Right. Like we came out the other side stronger and better. And if we wouldn't have gone through the pandemic, we wouldn't be like I wouldn't have my new location and we wouldn't have the team that we have. And, you know, I got really crystal clear on like what we were gonna do coming out of that and like where the business was gonna go.

SPEAKER_02 20:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

So can you go back to the structure?

SPEAKER_01 20:48

Um, because I'm just curious. Like, so what? So can you describe the structure that you have and then why it is that that's frowned upon generally?

SPEAKER_00 20:55

Yeah. So in in the beauty industry, um, there's a couple different business structures, but they're really compensation models. So like you can have, we'll just talk about hairstylists. You could have stylists who work in a salon, but maybe they rent that chair from the the salon owner who probably is a hairstylist. And and yes, they are under maybe a brand or a name, but they rent their space, they're independent, they've got to pay their own taxes, buy their own product, do their own thing. Um, you may have someone in a suite in a room and they're like a mini micro salon. Um, maybe there's one or two of them and they don't have any type of support. They have to pay all their own things, they have all of their own expenses. And then you have a model like mine that's a team-based commission employee model where I grow my team maybe from right out of school. They go through our advanced training academy, they deliver a service. We call it our five star service model for our guest. They deliver a service of excellence. We use um clean, vegan, organic products. Like we, we use different products and I can I can set the standard for that. Um, I can tell them that they have to go take education, where in the other models they don't. I pay their taxes. They have 401k with a match, they have paid time off, they have, you know, vision and dental and all these things that like our industry doesn't, but they would say that I'm taking part of their income where if they were in a different model, they would collect 100% of their income. That's actually not true because they would still have to pay their rent, pay for their product, pay for all the things. So it is traditionally frowned upon to have employees or be an employer in our industry. There's only, you know, a couple handful of us around town that actually have employees and build leadership teams and develop people and everyone else is pretty much out on their own. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

I I like it because you know what you're gonna get. Like there's no, you're not rolling the dice. No. Um, which sometimes if you decide you're gonna be, you know, changing up and going to somebody else, you don't know what you're gonna get and what's on what they're yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

And we have a set standard. Like we have our signature standard, and that is really important to me. And and before we were in an independent rental model where people did pay rent and we couldn't hold that bar high enough because legal, like legal reasons, you can't tell them that they have to take great care of a client. You can't tell them to go that they can't cuss on social media and do these things that are bad representation of your brand. Like I had to be really mindful of like, we are graber. And if we're graber, we have a standard to uphold in our community and the model that it was. Um, we could I couldn't legally do that. So we had to restructure.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

I encourage people, if they're unfamiliar with your salon, just go on the website and even if you're not ready to do it, pretend like you are and look through. It's very robust. The website's robust. You have um pictures of the people who are working there. There are there's information about them. There's a whole list of things that if you if you want more than just a haircut, you would like us a scalp massage. And you want there are all those options that you can, it's a it's it's wonderful. Like it's a it's pretty impressive.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

Thank you. We've we've worked really hard. I'm on my second or third website in the last you know couple years, but that that's a big tool for our guests, and we want to make sure that we're matching them with the right artists and we want to make sure that they know what they're getting into because we do have a premium level price point and we do, you know, offer clean organic products and vegan products, and we like we're not cutting corners, and it is gonna cost a little bit more, but you're gonna know what you're gonna get. And then we have levels, I mean, we have stylists who have a year of experience, up to 45 years of experience, and everybody in between. So there's someone for everyone on our team.

SPEAKER_02 24:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

Yeah. That's pretty great.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

All right, let's go back to you. Okay. Um, and so we talked about kind of you becoming yourself, becoming this true version of yourself. Was there a was there a hardest part to that? Was it to, I mean, are there are there moments you think back and you're like, yeah, that was this was a little bit trickier for me to to navigate to get where I am now?

SPEAKER_00 24:52

Yeah, I think uh when I was, not even I think, I know, when I was 30, so I I got a divorce. I was 29. Um, I had two kids under five running my company and going back to Boise State to finish my bachelor's degree while having 25 employees at that time. Um, that was, but I was doing things that I wanted to do in my life while also trying to hold space for everything else that was kind of crumbling during that time. And I look back and I do, I do pile on a lot of things on myself because I'm like, oh, I want a really big life and I want to do the things. And I don't want to say no if it's gonna be great. And so I look back at those times and uh I think about what that was and the choices that I made and how how that impacted and the great things that came out of that. I started a personal development journey right after that, probably four months later, after I graduated and my divorce was final and my kids were little. And um, for the last 10 years, I've really been focusing on personal and professional development and growth and mindset coaching for myself. But then I go out and I give that to my team or support other salon owners who lead people. And that's something that is a whole human development, like your mental, physical, spiritual, emotional wealth. We're gonna work on all of those things. And so that is something that as the hardships happen and as things were crumbling, I was evolving and I was becoming who I think who I am today, formed from that specific time in my life.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

It's interesting as you're saying this, like playing back my own divorce and that my period of time, small child, all it um feels very, very similar. Feels very, very uh, and maybe it's very, maybe that's a common. Maybe there's lots of people listening, they're like, yeah, that's how my divorce was like. And it felt like the world was at once falling apart and also coming together. Yes. Very, very strange time when I think back on that. And I thought I was just surviving. Yes. It was just like keep my head above water. But I wasn't. There was some pretty magical things that took place during that time that I probably wouldn't have done otherwise. Yeah. Um, but I wonder if there's I wonder what that is about us, that that um number one, that those decisions were made and that in all of that craziness that we were able to pull something out of it.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

Have you been able to kind of suss that out in your life? I mean, we I look at it a lot as like the evolution of who we are as humans, anyways. Like usually we're gonna have to go through some kind of hardship or climb some kind of mountain to come on the other side. So that is pretty much inevitable. It's just is it self-inflicting? Are we self-sabotaging? Are we actually like intentionally putting ourselves in the places we need to be? But I think when we want more, more is required. Like that is, there's no other way around it. And so if if we're in a a space, a relationship, a job, uh, you know, friend group, social group, any of those things, community where we live, if we're in a space where we don't feel whole, there is going to be something, whether you bring it on yourself or whether life happens for us, there is going to be something that allows us to either rise up or stay the same. And then I think we get to choose in that moment.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

Yeah. I you're making me think of uh Simon Senek, I think is the one who said Simon Senec. Me too. Me too. He's great. He's great. Sometimes I'm just like, I'm gonna pull up some of the hill. Well, Simon, give myself a but he he was talking about, and and I think I I call it the rising generation. I don't know what met whether it's millennials or what he was specifically talking about, but um the fact that there's kind of this this thing where they, and again, this is a generalization, so I'm not saying that everybody's like this, but there's this this this kind of thing that's happening where they're at the bottom of the mountain, they can see the top, they don't want to do the climb. Yeah, they just want to be at the top. Yes. And what they're missing is that the climb is it. Yeah. Like we're all gonna get to the top of the climb and say, what's the next one? Uh-huh. Um, what are what is your take on that as far as yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

Like that's so real. And I see that actually as I because I have multi-generational team members. I've got a teenager who's 16 and one who's 19. And I have friends that are 10, 20 years younger than me and 10, 20 years older than me. And I see that in different, different times in people's life, whether they're willing to do what it takes to get to their top. Because I think we've realized too, is that we like I grew up in the hustler call hustle culture. And I grew up in like, you got to do the work and work 24-7, and you have to do the grind, and you have to be the mom and the business owner and take care of the kids and be everything for everybody and still try to work out and drink your water and right, right? Like what, like what? Right. And so I think that that people have seen that and they saw that that we didn't get the outcome that we wanted, that we weren't fulfilled and happy and joyful, and there wasn't this like peace in life. And we get this one shot. And so I think when people start to see that mountain, they're I know my team, my younger team, they're so overwhelmed with what is happening in the world. They are so overwhelmed with, you know, like the American dream that we believe in, they don't believe in it anymore because it's not attainable. So why would they? Right. Why would they? And I didn't, I've never understood that, but I had different opportunities than these guys do, than my kids will. Right. And so I get it. And so for me as a leader, it's how do I start to peel back and get underneath to who they are and what they want. And maybe their parents never even asked because their parents were doing things for them all the time. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so, like, they don't even have goals and dreams and they don't know. Like they cry. They sit down in my office and just cry. I used to have a cry chair. Like they cry, you know, because they don't know. And no one's ever asked, like, what do you want? And and then we start to develop that. But I think that that's there's some things there. Yeah. You know. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

So I just caught your oldest is 19. Yes, he just turned 19. Okay. So I have only one, but she's 19. She's 19. Yeah. So we're we're interested. And uh tell me your thoughts on that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

On a 19-year-old. Oh my gosh. And a 16. So he's a boy, she's a girl. Okay. So a 16-year-old daughter and a 19-year-old son. Um, he was like, you know, he was my ride or die. And he I was single mom pretty much his his whole, well, her whole life, but like he had to kind of help. Yeah. You know, and so I have raised the most beautiful man. And like he's he's kind and nice and thoughtful, and he's a worker. He has his own landscaping company. Wow. We just helped him um buy out one of his friends' client lists and do like do a mer of his first merger with the business on a on a scale. And he's buying his own equipment and he's doing all of these things. And like I love that about him. And he also is like, I don't work Fridays, mom. And I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, no, I work, he works 10, 12 hour days, Monday through Thursday, and he goes and rides his dirt bike or hunts or does his thing on Friday, takes his girlfriend out on the weekend, hangs out with his truck friends. Like he has boundaries that I've never had. And like that. I know. And like I'm watching him, you know, um, I was such a big part of their life. And now I'm like watching from the sidelines and and navigating, like, it's not my life anymore. Like, this is his life. And so I just want to be supportive and help and guide. He called me yesterday and asked me about his credit score and like how he can do a better job and what he needs to do. And I was like, I'm literally in a meeting. Can we talk about this later? Like it was so cute because now he's calling and asking me for for advice, you know. And then my 16-year-old daughter is she's so opposite, and she is a dancer and she is great in school, and she has a friend group, and she like sings to herself, and like her life is beautiful, and she's just having so much fun and just living the dream right now, you know. And so I'm just inspired by them every day. And I feel very, very blessed because I they're not hard kids, like I'm very lucky. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:06

So I I also do not have a hard kid, so yeah, huge blessing. Yeah. And I don't know. I I've sometimes when I'm really want to be sappy and you know, I'll I'll call her and remember myself as something stupid I did during the divorce or you know, something. And I I'll call and I'll just, you know, like, you know, remember this time when I did da-da-da-da. And she sometimes she'll be like, Yeah, no, I don't remember. Yeah. Sometimes she does, and then and then she forgives me. Every time she forgives me. And she's like, Oh mom, like I know what you were going through at that time. And so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

I send them baby pictures a lot or like pictures that pop up on Facebook, and I'm like, look it and remember, and we did things together, and we because now, you know, they're they're living their best life and they don't have a lot of time for me. Yeah. And so I'm just make sure whenever I know they're gonna be home, I make sure I'm available. I make sure that like I'm present. And like it may only be 15 or 20 minutes, but I'm gonna get that 15, 20 minutes every time. Yeah. Every time. So they're both still at home. He hasn't moved out yet, but I know that that is coming soon.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

It's really hard. It is hard. The whole thing is yeah, it's very I cried for like six months. It's a little oh yeah. Oh yeah. Um, it's a little bit surreal too, because I I don't it doesn't feel like my kid is an adult now. Like that doesn't it's it's strange.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

Do you still look at them and think they're five? Oh yeah. Like I look at him and I'm like, you're like huge. And like I remember you being little, you know? Yeah. And her, I remember her just being like a little bobblehead with this blonde curly hair running around dancing and like it's just cool. And like it's just almost as tall as me. Like it's weird.

SPEAKER_01 34:38

Yeah. I think in the beginning I thought that these phases would happen and then like they would just kind of fade in the background, but they don't. It's almost like they layer. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Uh motherhood. All right. So let's uh let's go back. Uh I keep keep getting that. I love it. Yeah. So this is a great conversation. So I'm I'm uh I'm curious about because you're now you're mentoring a lot of people, and and I think courage is something that we talk a lot about. It can sometimes be a buzzword. But when when we talk about like true courage and moments where you need to be courageous, yeah. Do you have something that you're mentoring people about or t helping people understand about um about what courage actually looks like and when it's needed and then when sometimes you gotta fake it till you make it, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 35:25

Yeah. Well, and I battled that imposter syndrome for so long that I know I know what it feels like. And I mean, what do they say? Like most people don't want to stand on a stage. They don't want to be in front of a microphone. They, you know, like divorce is terrifying. All of these hard things are like absolutely terrifying. So they don't want to do it. But sometimes standing on a stage or using your voice or being in front of your team, even if it's a small team, even if it's three or four people and standing there being judged, like that's a big that is courageous and that is risky. And so we talk a lot about create, first of all, it starts for me, like it starts with the leader. And so creating that safe space and that has to start with you and then your team, and then it can extend to your customers or your clients. Um, so we talk about that. Courage is something I probably don't touch on in that, in that way. It's more building evidence. So I want to help people, all people, I want to help you build evidence so that you have developed that muscle that you know you can do hard things. So I'm gonna challenge you to do something that maybe is outside your comfort zone. But I'm gonna be right there. We're gonna link arms and we're gonna do it together. Or you're gonna call me, we're gonna debrief it later, or we're gonna run scenarios so you're prepared for worst case. And then you're gonna go do the thing. And then you're gonna come back and be like, okay, what did I like? And we need to debrief it. What did I like? What did I not like? What would I do differently next time? How did I show up? What's a win? Let's celebrate. And then we create that expansion of capacity and what we have the capability to continue to do. And so we're building evidence that we can do hard things. We're building evidence when we're great leaders. We're building evidence that people can like us. We're building evidence that we're smart, you know? And so I dwell, which is confidence. Yes. Confidence. And and it takes courage and being, you know, being the one willing to go first. And we talk a lot about that in leadership. Like every single person is a leader of self. So every person is already a leader. We're already speakers, we're already leaders, we're already doing the thing. It's just what what do you want? And what do you want out of this life? And are you willing to be uncomfortable? I mean, it is uncomfortable to get what you want. And if so, like let's let's go there. Yeah. You know. Okay, so let's talk about uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

Yeah. Like, what does that actually mean? Like, what are we, what's happening inside of our bodies that that we're uncomfortable to do these things? Like, and I think when you were talking about those things, like some people, no problem standing up in front of somebody, but going to your parents and asking to borrow some money, forget about it. Yes. Like, so but so everything that we're like each one of us has it, it's all up here and it's all special to us. But if you just take a blanket look at it, like it's it's not like this one thing.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

Yeah. Well, fear is designed to only know present and past. Like the fear that we have today, only it its job is to protect us. Like that is totally fine. And if you can be aware of when those things are coming up for you, whether that, whether you get sweaty, whether it's a bot, like for me, it's body, like hot, um, heat, uh, some people's voice shakes, some people get really sweaty, some people like throw up right before, you know, like they have kind of a bodily thing, maybe before it's a mind thing. And then a lot of other people just go into a lot of mind when a fear comes up. But the fear only knows from where we are today and the past. And its job is to keep us safe. And so for me, when I have fear come up and they're those little voices of not enough, or they're you're gonna look stupid, or you don't know, or whatever. Everyone has those little voices. I can acknowledge that. First and foremost, I can acknowledge that. Thank you so much for protecting me. Like, thank you so much for protecting me. And I know that I'm capable of doing this and I really appreciate you, and that is okay. And like, let's show them, let's see what we got. Let's try it out. And there's some grace and some compassion when that fear comes up and when those little voices come up. You got to decide like, are they true and are you gonna let them run your life? Or is it just to keep you where you are because where you are is safe because it knows. That's it. And so when we can start to expand our capacity, when we can start to push ourselves outside the comfort zone, when we can do a few more hard things, and it's not all the hard things at once. I do not recommend that I do that. But it's it's those little things we call it the 1% every day. Can we get 1% better every day? Can we try one thing new, you know, every day? If we take a class in the salon, can we go back and try that on a guest? And you might fumble it and you might mess it up, and that's okay. But like, let's see what works, let's see what sticks, you know, and in and creating space for that to happen, whether it's your business, your family, for yourself.

SPEAKER_01 40:01

Yeah. So fumbling, that's a that's a big part of doing it, right? So, what's your advice to people after a fumble?

SPEAKER_00 40:08

Yeah. Well, definitely look at it because I don't, I don't, I do not believe in failure, like ever. Like I face plant forward, I fumble, pivot. I do, you know, like I have to have different language for myself, or I get stuck in that, like, okay, I'm here just beating myself up. Like, we don't need to do that. And so it's like, okay, well, what what did I fumble? Acknowledge it. Okay, what worked? Well, I showed up, I did the thing. It wasn't the best. Okay, great. So what do I need to work on? Okay, like I need to go take a class or find a mentor or go do some self-reflection. Maybe I need to do some journal journaling. Maybe I need to go have a hard conversation with someone because maybe I'm performing. Maybe, you know, like what is it and that that key of awareness. And then, like, okay, so next time, what am I gonna do differently? Okay, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna prepare, I'm gonna have my notes, I'm gonna practice, I'm gonna do my thing, and then let's try it again.

unknown 41:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:01

And we just get back up, right? Like, I mean, we think about football players all the time. Like they're fumbling all the time, they're messing up all the time, but they get back up and they do it again. And we have to build that muscle.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

Do you I think I know the answer to this? Um, but do you seek outside people to to reflect back to you when you when you fumble to to say, yeah, actually, yeah, you really did screw that one up? Or or or the opposite generally is the case, what at least for me, I think I'm messing them completely up. And then when I seek out somebody else's opinion, I realized they're like, no, it's fine. Yeah, you're you're totally good. I don't even know what you're talking about, didn't even notice it or whatever. Yeah. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

We're our own worst critics. So like acknowledge that. When we think we mess up, probably nine out of the 10 people didn't even care. And not only that, we have to acknowledge that everyone is like so self-I don't want to say self-centered, but I'm saying self-centered. But we're we're just so focused on ourselves that like, yes, we're there to learn or listen or do the thing, but we're not so worried about other people. Like we think people are so worried about what we're doing, and that's all ego. And it's like they're not, they're living their own life. They have a lot of hard things, they have things that they're dealing with. And so just kind of rem remembering that. But I do put myself in rooms um with people who are honest, transparent, and and will give me feedback. And so they're safe rooms, but they're usually rooms where I'm like the baby guppy in the room and they're really big of doing what I want. And they don't necessarily give you direct feedback. It's more stories or like this is what worked for me, or this is what I would do different next time. My feedback, and I tell my team this all the time. Before you're a business owner, your feedback comes in the form of like constructive criticism, a negative review uh from your manager, those things. When you're a business owner, the form of feedback is money. I lose money. Yep. The form of feedback is I a team member leaves. They didn't like what I did. They didn't like my approach. They didn't, that's my feedback. The form of feedback is a negative review. And I'm like, okay, we gotta up our guest experience. Like now we need to go do the things. So, like, we don't necessarily get feedback, I think, at this level the way we think we should. It's different.

SPEAKER_01 43:02

How do you I'm I'm really asking uh to to let maybe our listeners know, but how do you I'm just imagining that moment where you're like, I need to get feedback? Because it is scary when we realize I need external, yeah, you know, and and not necessarily validation. I need the I actually need the hard stuff at this point. Um, and we find ourselves in that position and we may be self-actualized enough to know that we actually need it. Yeah, but the actual asking for it and then the the being with it, how do you prepare yourself knowing that you have asked for the tough stuff and you're gonna get the tough stuff and you're gonna have to listen to it and then try to process it. How do you prepare yourself for that?

SPEAKER_00 43:40

So I am open to possibilities and I like I do not know everything. And I will tell my team this, I will talk to other business owners and leaders and I I seek out, I pay for and invest in coaching, guidance, strategic planning. Like I invest a lot of money and time to have the expert. Shine a light on what's not working. Like that for me, that's kind of where it starts at this level that I'm playing at now. Someone that has already done it, someone that has been there, someone that knows the things. And then I invest money and time into figuring out what those things are and then being open to just say, like, okay, I didn't know what I didn't know today. And I'm very much that way. Like I only know today and from the past. I have no idea tomorrow and the next day. And so if I learn something today that is so different and it is in alignment with my values, what I believe, who I am, and it shows up, then I'm like, okay, it's time to go in a different direction. And like I gotta move and I gotta move now. You know, like I know I have this heat when it kind of this intuitive hit when I know that I'm supposed to be doing something that I'm not doing, and then I get confirmation. That that's my time to decisively take action. And if I don't take action, it will turn into crisis and chaos. Like I have that experience. So yeah. Okay. So how about the the flip side of that?

SPEAKER_01 45:06

Yeah, thinking about myself, full full disclosure. And just the fact that I I do seek out like you. And sometimes that help is so helpful, and I'm leaning in so much to it that I forget that they're humans as well, and that sometimes they're wrong too. Yeah. Have you experienced that before where you're like, like this is not this is not helpful?

SPEAKER_00 45:28

And also I think there might be alternative or alternative, ulterior motives or um, and maybe it's not, you know, it's not evil, but something's there's a form of manipulation in everything that we're doing, right? Like we want to get our results and they want their results. And so they're like, I take it for what it is, like face value, right? And like if they can give me information and guidance that's gonna serve me, I'm gonna take it and I'm gonna run with it. And I'm gonna leave the rest. And so that is something that like when I go to a conference or I hire a coach or I hire a consultant or you know, a strategic accounting partner or whatever, whatever I'm gonna do, I'm gonna interview, I'm gonna interview them. I I'm gonna do my research and my legwork. I'm going to see are they in alignment with my core values? Like those are things that are really important for me before I just go say yes and spend money. So like it's up to us to do the research on that. And then also, like, they might be really great at some of these things, but their relationship may be falling apart and at home. And did I hire them for their relationship or did I hire them for these great things? You know, and I've got to look at that. I mean, in relationship counseling and therapy and all the things, like people are still people and they're not gonna be a hundred percent everything. So, like, take what you need and leave the rest, and like that can be okay too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:47

Um, okay, trying to decide what direction to go next. But I I think um I think I'd like to stay on fear a little bit because I think it's such a prevalent thing right now. And I think um, I think sometimes fear talks us out of things. Yes. And I'm curious about how you feel about like like that the fine line of those moments where you're like, which is right? How do I know if like what my gut is telling me or whether like what all the evidence is showing me? Like, how do you how are you able to get out that and get really, really clean in your thinking?

SPEAKER_00 47:23

Yes. I I have fear come up a lot. And it's from like I think it's just from previous trauma or experiences through business and and working with, I mean, I've worked with hundreds of humans and different personalities and those things. And so I I'm cautious of when I make decisions, especially financial decisions in my business. Like that, that's something money, peep money makes people funny. Like don't stop making it money funny. Like it money is just a tool to get us what we want, right? And so, like whenever I go in and talk to my team about money or changing something in my business or or those things, because when you change someone's compensation or financial well-being or any, like that is a huge responsibility. And I do not take that lightly. And every single time I'm gonna do a price increase for a guest or I'm going to change my compensation model for my team. Ultimately, it's going to be good because why would I do it? I wouldn't do anything that's going to hurt my business. But like I have a lot of fear that'll come up because what if they quit? What if they leave? What if our clients, like, what if I open the doors tomorrow and no one shows up? Like all of those things could be real, but I do enough processing with myself, talk it out. I'm an external processor. So I'm usually talking it out with a coach, a consultant, someone else who's who's already done it. So I look for my professionals, my experts. Um, I'm gonna usually talk it out with my leadership team and we're gonna set it up and I'm gonna say, okay, what are you worried about? What am I worried about? Let's talk it out, like worst case scenario. And if I can handle the worst case scenario and I've got 85% of what I need, then I jump. And that is that has worked for me. I don't know if it works for everybody, but if I can handle the fallout and I know what could happen, it rarely does it happen. But if I can handle that, then I'm okay. And if I am 85% prepared, then I'm okay. Because I I I I don't know what's gonna happen with the other part. Right. I just don't know until I do it. And until we take action, we won't know. And fear can like consume us and we just stop. And it's not even real. Right.

SPEAKER_01 49:24

Like we we've literally made it up. It's not even real. And and it can it can stop us for decades if we're not careful. Yes. You really can get yourself completely stuck if you if you hold on to that for too long.

SPEAKER_00 49:35

And it keeps coming up. Like I want people to know too, like it keeps coming up. Like we don't fear, I don't know. Fear has never gone away from me.

SPEAKER_01 49:43

Me neither. So I I it feels different in my body than it used to, but it's still there. And uh yeah, there's always that kind of yeah, the moment of like, okay, yeah, proceed or not proceed. I and I this may I feel like it happened when my daughter went to college, but I think it's probably been there all along. But I think there's something I have this ability to almost pretend like something isn't there. So like that's like so because she's across the country from me right now. Half the time I'm like, oh, she's just at volleyball practice because that's how I make my brain deal with the fact that she's like it would take me all day to get to her. And that's if I could get a flight, you know. So and so if I think about that, it freaks me out. Yeah. But there are a lot of decisions like that within business that are very similar that I think, and I don't know if that's healthy or not, uh, as I'm saying it out loud, but I think there's a point where, and it maybe it is that 80, 85% there. Now I can block out the rest of the noise and say, we got to execute. I can't hear the rest of that.

SPEAKER_00 50:41

Yeah. Because and I do that um often because if I sit in the what-ifs and this negative story that I've made up and the worst case scenario, and like for me, okay, like let's say I'm gonna do something, I'm gonna make a change, and five people leave my company. Like that, that's massive, right? Like we're still we're a big business, but we're not that big. Like that's still a big deal. And then I and then I get there and I'm processed it, I've done the things, I've done my homework. Like prep preparation. When preparation meets opportunity, success is inevitable. So if I know that I'm prepared, the opportunity presents itself. And if five people leave, I have financially set up my structure, we're gonna be okay. My training program is ready. Like we're good. I've got to jump because if I don't jump, we're staying right here. And I ask myself every single day, is here good enough for me, for the life that I want? Is today good enough? And it's hard because I it is good, it is so good, and it's better than it's ever been. And yet, I still know that there's more waiting for me. And if I don't do the things, I'm only doing a disservice to myself. Yeah. Like I want to see what's possible. So I'm gonna push those boundaries.

SPEAKER_01 51:52

Oh, yeah, you and I are similar. Like that just resonated with me completely. I want to totally veer off to the side on something you said a few minutes ago. Actually, I think it might have been towards the beginning of the podcast, but it's been lingering. Uh you insure you like so, like is like um, like um health and health insurance for your you provide that.

SPEAKER_00 52:13

Yeah, not health insurance yet, not full benefits. We have so we have um, my team has a 401k with uh to a 4% match. They have paid time off after they've been with me for a minimum of three years. So it's retention, right? And when they're loyal to me and my business, then they're going to have access to more benefits. Sure. Um, and then they have like vision, dental. We just launched, I'm so excited. We just launched this vision, dental, disability, and life insurance and paid time off this year. Oh, wow. That was a goal. It took me five years to get here because a business has to be at enough revenue and profitability to afford these additional benefits and perks. Um, they also get paid education. We do a lot of personal development, we do mindset, we do all of these things. And then our goal within the next hopefully 12 months, but probably 12 to 18 months, would be to either offer full suite of health benefits or some kind of like HSA or something for their because once you offer it to one employee, you have to offer it to all. Sure. And then if if they needed something else that the exchange would give a better policy and you offer it, like they almost have to waive it from your business. It kind of sets them up for failure, which I I just learned about all these things. And so I'm like, okay, I I want to do my team, like I want to be of service. And so whatever decisions I make for them, it's gonna, it's gonna support them in their life.

SPEAKER_01 53:25

That's an it's an interesting choice that you're making. And so Zamzo's has been doing that for, I mean, I well before I came on board. I mean, I my my great-grandparents probably are the ones who started it all. So I don't know how that all began and how you know how it morphed. I just know where it is now. Um, and it's challenging. And ours has been established for a very long time. I I wonder about how how that decision was made, because it would be so much easier to say you're on your own. Yes. And I don't want to have to deal with that. Cause I for the person, people who don't know, every single thing that you mentioned has its own renewal situation, its own. And every time that you go to renew, it's the prices go up. They never go down. Yeah. The prices never go down. Ever. So this is a like this is this is a heart decision. Big deal. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:17

That was yeah. And it comes from me. And like, so I grew up in the model of the industry that there was usually only a handful of very successful people in the salon. Everyone else was were starving artists as hairdressers, primarily. We were a spa too, but as hairdressers. And so I made a promise to myself. I said, if if this is ever on my watch, my people will never starve. And so I have had to figure out because there's not a path. There's not like even my friends that are owners and they've been doing this a long time, every business is different because everybody, every business is individual and the overhead is different and the team is different, and the wants and the costs and all of those things are different in every market. Every single location is different. Um, and so you have to navigate this kind of on your own. And so I've been working on this for for almost five years. And to have it come to fruition is because I want my people paid well. When I heard that the average hairstylist makes $42,000 a year, they stand 10 to 12 hours a day. They have back pain, they have arthritis, they have wrist issues, they don't have benefits, they don't get paid time off. They when they have babies, they don't get to stay at home. And if they stay at home, they don't, there's nothing for them. And I'm like, this is my in this is my industry. Right. And they're dealing with people all day. What's up? And also, the emotional, the emotional stuff that comes with that. Yeah, it's like because you sit in the chair and you're like, Yes. And and then they got to deal with me, right? And they have to deal with like sales because at the end of the day, we're we're selling time and we have products and we have things that we have to move in order to pay them. Right. Right. And they have to go to education on their days off. And like, no, no one outside our industry knows how tough this industry is, I don't think. And when I found that out and I found out all the hurdles, I was like, how can I do this better for my people? This is the business that I wish I would have had or that I could have been a part of because I've I've grown it. I've never really had a boss. I've never had anyone to show me the way. Like I'm creating that for my people. And I will not, it's a legacy company. So someday when it is not my turn to lead anymore and I hand it off to someone, I want them so set up for success that they don't ever have to go through what I went through. And I want my team to feel so loved and cared for and that they can live a life that they love and do great hair and skin. Like that's important to me.

SPEAKER_01 56:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:41

What do you what do you want your legacy to look like? And is there somebody that you think about who's who is similar to what that is, is there somebody you can equate it to to say like this is, or maybe it's a combination of people, but what do you want that legacy to look like? And maybe where did that come from?

SPEAKER_00 56:58

Yeah. Um my legacy is definitely impact. I want to, well, first of all, when I'm gone, uh, if people come to a funeral and tell me things about me that they never told me to my face, that's rude. Tell tell the people how you feel about them, right? And love the people. And I want to party and I want a celebration because that's what I want for my life. Like I want to know that like when I showed up in the room at the dinner with my family, that like it mattered, that like what I'm doing matters. Like I am not here to just live a life to just like of complacency or, you know, I see people walking around like zombies every day and they just show in, show up, they clock in, they clock out, they sit on the couch, they do the thing. Like that is not my life. And I want to leave an impact that lives beyond me, that what I did here with my time mattered at whatever capacity that is. Like I don't have a lane or I don't have a like I care so much about humanity and people that like I did something good while I was here.

SPEAKER_01 58:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:00

I I I see that in you. And I just this short period of time of talking with you love the fact that it's really become who you are. And I wonder if do you are you a little bit like me where um sometimes there's somebody in my life that I that's not there, they're not ready yet to hear of what I have to say. Yes. And you have to meet them where they are. Is that as difficult for you as it is for me?

SPEAKER_00 58:25

Yeah, every day. Every day. And I'm also like learning, like we do, like where we're at, and it's it's not that we're like better than or different or anything like that. Like I have different experiences than you do, and and I have different experiences than my team does, or or my fiance or my kids, or anything like that. And so when I show up, I want to be a light in their life. And when it when I become so the shadow side to where I live right now is this like I'm a super controller. I want to control what I have. I can control the controllables. You can't control anything. It's an illusion. Right. But that is like where I feel safe, I guess. Me too. And so, like letting go and just like knowing what's possible and that like I I create really amazing things and people get a lot of opportunities and they have access to things. And my kids and my family and my team they know what they know and they have the resources, like they are capable. They are capable humans. And I remind myself every day that they are capable. And whether I'm here or not, they're gonna handle it the way they want to handle it, not because I said so. So it's just like, what can I do today that's gonna serve them that maybe would get them one step closer to where they want to go, or maybe not. Maybe I just need to sit with them. And I'm learning that. This is what I'm learning right now is like not what is Shelby doing. It's who am I being in those moments? Because maybe they just need me to be me and be solid and they need to be heard. Yeah, you know, and I I don't know, like as leaders, I think we can just I I know I'm a powerful presence. I know I can take over. That's also another shadow side. So I'm aware of when those things start happening and I have to just be mindful of like they're where they are. Yeah. And like where they are is great. And where I want them to go may not be where they want to go. It's not my life. Right. It's not mine.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:28

Easier said than done, but man, I I I feel that. Yeah, absolutely feel that. And the whole being, not doing. I do forget that I'm a human being, not human doing. Sometimes I think that's where I get my worth, is that other side. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:41

I was recognized a lot, and I don't know if this was yours too. When I was younger, I was recognized for all of the things that I could do and the accomplishments and the awards and the recognition. And I was a young business owner and all these things, and that became part of my identity. And I'm really learning, relearning to kind of shed that of like who am I when I just show up? Not when I as a business owner, not as the boss, not like what about just me and like holding space for that now is very different. Yes. Yeah. It's challenging.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:09

Doesn't seem like it should be, but right? Believe it or not, we're at the final question. Gosh, okay. Um, this is it's gone by very quickly, and um, it's so much fun. I mean, this is really, really great. Okay, so here it is. If someone listening feels like they are they're like they're falling behind, and that can be whatever they think that means. Um what would you want them to know?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:32

So if you feel like you're falling behind, I would challenge them to continue to ask what they want. This is one of my coaches recently, instead of asking what I don't want or saying what I don't want, it was, what do you want? And then write that down. And what do you want? And not even go into why you want it, but just like keep asking, like, what do you want? And then to be really honest, what you're doing, who you're surrounded with is massive. So who you're surrounded by, what you're doing every day, is it getting you closer to what you want or is it moving you further away? And a lot of that is just self-assessment and self-awareness, and then taking the next step. It doesn't have to be a leap, it doesn't have to be something big, it doesn't have to be, you know, this this big thing. One thing. And then after that, can you take one more? And if you're in a space where you feel like you're falling behind, are you falling behind or do you just need rest? Do you need to nourish yourself? Do you need, you know, like a mental health day? Do you need a self-care day? Do you need something for just you? Cause I know I feel that way sometimes. I feel I've done a lot, but I also feel like I'm nowhere close to where I want to be. And I'm like, oh, I got more left in me.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:46

You know, but um right now I'm almost stepping back more to create space and like this is just the season. It's just the season. Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:57

So love those parting words. Thank you for that. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for running a salon that is just fabulous. It's a wonderful place. And I hope if people are not familiar with it, they'll look it up. How where how would they find you? Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:12

So you guys can visit us um at gray and company.com online. We have Instagram, same thing, Gray Burr and Company. And just come in, stop in and visit us. We would love to meet you. Awesome. Thank you again for being on.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:24

And uh let's let's stay in touch. I would love that. Thank you. Hey, thanks for watching. If you or someone you know has a story to share, we'd love to hear from you. Reach out, share your story, and you could be featured on an upcoming episode. And remember, once your story gets shared, it will no longer be one that nobody knows.