SPEAKER_04 0:00

Everyone has a story, a moment, a lesson, or a piece of their life most people may never hear. Hi, I'm Callie Zamzo, and this is Nobody Knows. Welcome to Nobody Knows. I'm your host, Callie Zamzo. And today I have Noah Riley in the studio. He is the founder and CEO of AI Genius Automations. So, in short, we're going to be talking about AI today. And I am very excited about this. I we were talking before the show about the fact that I, as soon as we booked you, like the whole universe conspired to like help me understand AI better. Because I'm more of a dabbler. I don't I use it, but I don't use it in a very deep way. But I'm telling you everything from the issue of the New Yorker that showed up on my uh doorstep to um I have assignments currently in a class that I'm taking, and it's a whole segment on AI. I think the whole world is like, you need to understand this stuff. Um so I'm really glad to have you here. I'm gonna have probably some very basic questions for you, but I'm hoping that uh for our standard audience listener, we might understand AI a little bit better after talking with you today. All right, so I'm gonna jump right in with this question. What do people um misunderstand most about AI, do you think?

SPEAKER_00 1:21

I would probably say it's capabilities.

SPEAKER_04 1:24

Really?

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Yeah. You misunderstand what it does, how it does what it does, what it does well, what it doesn't do well. Um I say that because the uh like a lot of general users don't understand all the things that they can accomplish with AI, the tools that are available or the tools that they're currently using, what they can do, or how much more they could help them, or how much time they could save them. And then for people who are a little more resistant and they try and they get frustrated very quickly and quit, they don't understand what it's not good at. And so um it's it's a tool, you know. It's kind of like getting mad at a screwdriver for not being good at hammering nails sometimes. But then when you have a screw, you don't you don't even know that it can do what it can do. So it's like there's this weird misconception on both sides, I think, where people are landing in the middle and using it for very general basic things, and the people who like keep digging and digging find more and more creative things to do with it, and it's that's really amazing. So I always say that's one of the most the things we misunderstand the most.

SPEAKER_04 2:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

It's just what it is, what it does.

SPEAKER_04 2:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:29

Oh, I can't wait to dive into that. Before we do that, let's back up just a little bit and let's hear about how you ended up here. So, you know, what is something about Noah Riley that most people don't know?

SPEAKER_00 2:40

Um in my professional life.

SPEAKER_04 2:43

It could be anything, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

Oh man. Things people don't know. I don't know. I was born in Minnesota.

SPEAKER_04 2:51

Oh, there you go. What uh what brought you to Idaho?

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Um When I decided to start a business, um I was coming out of a phase in my life where I wasn't really building anything. You know, just kind of traveling a lot and exploring and and the friend groups that I made when I was doing that were doing the same thing. So when I was like, okay, like I turned like I turned 30 and I thought to myself, hmm, uh I'm time keeps passing. This is interesting. I'm not 20 anymore. Uh this is a real thing, you know. Old people kept telling me about this. It's really happening. And I and I kind of had this realization, like, that, you know, one day I'm gonna have this moment again. I'm gonna turn 40 and I'm gonna look back on my life and wonder what I built or if I built anything. And that kind of shifted my mentality to um, yeah, just wanting to build something. I haven't I hadn't built anything. Like I didn't I didn't really have anything to show for my life, in my in my opinion, you know. Um, and um, and so that's when I started focusing a lot more on starting a business, and then I realized that I had a terrible support system for that because everyone was like the opposite. They were just like fly by the seat of their pants, do whatever, party, you know, stay up late, like, you know, F the man. Yeah, everything was just like crazy. Uh so I wanted to be somewhere where life was a little bit slower, where I could focus. And uh that's initially what led me here. Um, I just really just looked, I just looked it up. And at the time it was like number one, one of the number one cities in the world to live in, uh right in the United States was Boise. And so I was like, I've never been to Boise. And that was it.

SPEAKER_04 4:36

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:37

That's amazing. I you're very self-aware. I'm not sure. I I I had the same sort of uh things happen to me, but I think it was a little later in life. I don't I think it took me a little bit longer to get to where you are um or where you were at the time that you made the this decision. But that's uh that's an interesting ability to do you think that was like in ingrained in you at some point, or do you think it was always there sort of in the back of your head? Or do you think you'd something just literally you're like, okay, this is the time and I'm ready?

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Um It was probably like a probably a perfect storm of some kind. Um I think the realization of um just aging. I mean, as dumb as it sounds, as simple as it sounds, was uh it it really hit me because I I was a person who like I really love like mastery of of anything. Like I really, really obsess about getting good at stuff, and so but I didn't have any focus. And so like all through my teen years and my twenties, I would just like skip from like one discipline to one discipline to one discipline and get good at things until I was essentially better than everyone else around me, and then I would get bored and then I would do something else. And so like I never got to a point where I actually used all of those skills to build something that was substantial. And so by the time I turned 30, I realized that um I was more or less like a I was I kind of turned myself into a party trick, like where I was good at all these things and like I spoke different languages and had all these I was athletic and I knew all I could do card magic, what just random stuff, you know, just random stuff I would get obsessed on for a long time. And then and then I was like, oh, but I'd but I'm not a magician, I'm not a linguist, I'm not a like I am none of these things. I just like just like random skills I have. It just kind of like hit me where I was like, I'm I felt hollow. Like I hadn't set my feet down anywhere. And I realized that I didn't have anywhere to set my feet down, and I didn't like that.

SPEAKER_04 6:31

Yeah. But then you took the actual steps, and I think that's probably what doesn't happen as often is that like people I think people feel lost all the time or they feel like, oh, you know, I just things don't feel quite right. But maybe we just continue doing what we're doing because it's easier than stopping everything and saying, I'm going to do something on purpose.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

Yeah. And I think leaving and changing um it the people thing is definitely the hardest, right? It's like just cutting people out of my life who didn't do anything wrong.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Because I was doing something different and they were not it was it just wasn't a good fit anymore, you know? Right. Um, I think that's probably the hardest part.

SPEAKER_04 7:07

For sure. Were you always a technology person?

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

Yeah. I've been a nerd since day one.

SPEAKER_04 7:14

So what does that look like when you were when you were a kid, for instance? Were you uh a Lego builder and then or were you like a yeah, I'll okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

Everything just create and destroy, create and destroy. Like everything that I saw, everything that I did, whether it was Lincoln logs or Legos or Kinecks, whether it would once I got my hands on a computer, I was like, oh, I don't even have to like clean up. Create and destroy whatever I want over and over again with no, you know, that was kind of um, you know, mind-bending for me. And when I was like young, I was, yeah, I would just, I would just I would just do random stuff, like break rocks and like build little mini cities. I was always breaking stuff and then building things and breaking things and building things. And so um I really liked I think that I started to really um go towards technology because it it offered me the ability to do it much faster. And it basically extended my abilities like infinitely in every direction. Like there were no walls anymore. Like it wasn't like, you know, if I'm building with Legos, I can only build Legos I have, or if I'm building with in the physical world, like there's so these kind of limitations that don't exist in technology. And so like I really liked that it just became this kind of infinite expression of like whatever it is that I wanted to try. Like I could try it over and over and over and over again with no real limitations. So that's one thing that drew me to it.

SPEAKER_04 8:31

That's interesting. So you did um first you did graphic design, correct? When you actually started to have a career. So um that but so tell us about that. You graphic design first, but that really wasn't like you you did it and you did it well, but it was not necessarily your passion.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

Yeah. I mean, I I liked the psychology of design. I think that was the thing that was the most interesting to me. I never liked working with clients really, um, trying to like find that gap between what they want and what I was making. Um, the thing that I really nerded out about was um how how design affects psychology. Like, why like do we feel differently when we look at a square versus a triangle or blue versus red? Or, you know, if you put the empty space on a page, what does it do? What how does it make someone's eye move across a graphic and why? And so like you get into this kind of weird space where it's like I was trying to create an experience. This is the thing that I thought was really interesting, where it's like, you know, I I built a lot of when I first started doing graphic design, well, I guess I guess what wasn't when I first started, but probably when I got most into it. Um I had a lot of um stuff where I was building marketing materials of some kind. And so I found it really interesting to build graphics where it was like I I wanted to control the path that someone's eye took through a graphic, and then by the time they get to the call to action, I they should be feeling something very specific that made them click on the call to action. And so that that whole process of like how that happened was just something that I was really fascinated with. So I really that that was that was what I liked. So then when I would be, you know, having conversations with clients and they'd be like, Well, I want to put like a cat in the logo. And I'm like, Yeah, well, you mean you saw washing machines, why do you want a cat? And the logo I'd be like, Well, my grandma's cat was it? And I'm like, look, like this is not good design. I was so like, I would sometimes I was like, man, okay, yeah, well, she's then oh, here's here's the cat washing machine, and they're like, Oh, this is adorable. And I'm like, you're kind of alienating your your target clients, and they're like, I don't care, it's about my grandma, and I'm like, okay. So I kind of find it hard to like have those conversations like over and over and over again. Then I was like, man, but you could do something so cool, you know, like put the put the cat sticker on the wall and like make your logo about the thing that you're trying to do. Um, so I don't know. I I liked I liked learning the programs, I liked um understanding the psychology, and but it was eventually I ended up getting into automating everything, anyways. And that's that was kind of the precursor to to the transition. Like by the end of the last job that I had before I struck out on my own with graphic design, I wasn't even doing design work. I was just automating things. I was building little programs to automate the Adobe programs uh to make our processes faster. So that was kind of the first that was when I first started really programming.

SPEAKER_04 11:21

Okay.

unknown 11:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:23

All right. Well, let's uh let's move into that. Um and I wanna I want to start, I think in particular because of everything that's happening right now in the news, um, because there is a lot of fear and uncertainty surrounding AI in particular. So um why do you think that people are more afraid of AI than they were previous technologies?

SPEAKER_00 11:44

Yeah. Um I think there's two, probably two main reasons. Um, one is because it's um well, actually, let's say three. Um one is because it is it doesn't have a lot of boundaries in terms of the areas of life that it's touching. Like, you know, like we discussed before the show, like it it's it's touching on uh moral issues and existential issues and job issues and government issues and social, like I mean, it's just so many different areas all at once, which is not normal for uh a technology. Another is that um in with other really powerful technologies that have emerged, uh, there was a necessary like physical infrastructure that needed to be built to to basically proliferate it so that it would extend and and like throughout the world. Whereas AI, uh this is the first time we've ever seen a technology this powerful that already had the infrastructure in place to distribute it globally instantly. And so we didn't have any time. There was nothing gradual about it. It was just like all over the place, all at once. Um and then um also I would say the other reason is because it's anthropomorphized. People treat it like it's a human, like it's an entity. They talk about it, like they use the word like he and she, and they, you know what I mean? And we don't have any other kinds of technology that can like when I go into talk to ChatGPT, I talk to it like I would talk to a person, and it talks back to me like a person talks to me, you know, and and still even in that, even if it's imprecise and the communication isn't quite right, like you can kind of arrive at a conclusion the same way you do with a person. We haven't ha we haven't interacted with technology like that before. You know, there has been nothing like that. And, you know, because you know, sci-fi well before this ever became a thing, that's been like, you know, like the doomsday AI scenario, I think that's pretty, I think that's pretty relevant part of the way that we think about a technology like this is that anything that kind of breaches into that like uncanny valley where you have a technology that seems kind of human, I think that scares us. Um and you know, the combination of those things is just like a lot of unknown, a lot of misunderstanding, and not a lot of opportunity to catch up and learn it. And it's changing already faster every day, every week than people can keep up. It just feels overwhelming. Like it's just this giant snowball. And if you miss it three years ago, there's no way to catch up. You know, it just feels I think it feels overwhelming to a lot of people, and it's very difficult to understand how to even approach it in a way that feels safe.

SPEAKER_04 14:15

Yeah. Is there are there any of these fears that you think are overblown? Like that that you would say are probably not something that people truly need to be worried about.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:28

Like where do I start?

SPEAKER_00 14:30

Yeah. Um I think like the the kind of Terminator doomsday AI thing that seems to be kind of talked about a lot is pretty extreme. Um we see like these weird videos and demos of, you know, robots or or seeing news stories and things like that about things that AI did or said, and or like how the oh they they started their own chat room and they're talking in a la in a new language and they're doing this. You know, these things are um at the end of the day, it's like they're kind of they're still just computer programs. Um they're not weirdly, a lot of people don't know this, it's completely deterministic. It's not random. Um it's it just looks random. Like I'm gonna give you an example. Like it's kind of like demystify a little bit of what's actually happening behind the scenes. When you send a prompt, and I'll keep you, I'll keep using ChatGPT just because it's like so well known, right? And so it's easy. If I send a prompt to to Chat GPT and it responds back to me, and like and like a hundred people send the same prompt, it might be a little different every time. You know, they might respond a little bit differently or based on context. But the the inference engine or the thing that essentially translates from like what what was said by the user and what is an appropriate answer for those particular words that you type in, if you type in the same thing, it always comes up with the same answer. The reason why it gives you different things every time is because it's it's called seeding. So there may be hundreds of thousands of seeds. Uh so every single time you prompt in uh or send a prompt in, there could be 500,000 options and it randomly chooses one and sends it back. But those 500,000 options are the same every time if you send the same prompt.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

Huh.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

So that whole thing of like, again, this is kind of the anthropomorphization. Like we think of it like a human being because it can feel random. It feels like it's going off the rails sometimes. It feels like it's thinking, but it's not. It's math. Uh, it's a deep neural net. Uh it uses natural language processing, these are computer programs. And so um, the thing that is interesting about that, really interesting about that to me, is that it really starts to call into question a what is intelligence? Because the more that we abstract away the math and make and and take and hide those layers, and then you just have those, you know, that chat interaction, it feels more intelligent, it feels more human. And I think it's making people ask those really strange questions, like, what is intelligence? What does it mean to be human? Um, because is that what our brains are doing? You know, because we can replicate it like so closely with just a computer program. Um, that to me is interesting. But in the background, we can break it down. Like it's um if you were to, if you're a pro if you're a programmer and you wanted to test this, you can actually, you can do it. You can you can you can force it to use the same seed over and over again. And if you and if you type the same prompt, you get the same response back every single time. You can do that with image generators. Same thing. It's one thing people don't know when they're trying to get like consistent imagery, like if you're using mid-journey or something like that, you can tell it what seed to use. And if you use the same prompt, you'll get the same thing back over and over and over again. And then people don't know that that's how generative AI works. So that whole random thing is not random.

SPEAKER_04 17:54

Wild. That's interesting. I yeah, I okay. I I'm I'm I'm picking up here. So how so um I'm just thinking about like like the prompts that we put in.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:06

So if let's say that somebody wanted to get the same thing over and you do you do you have to say exactly the same thing, or how did you how would you tell it to use the same seed? Is that what you said? So that yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Well, I don't know if Chat GPT, like if you just go to the web version and type in if it would let you do that. I'm not sure. I haven't I guess I haven't tried. I should I should try. See if it will acknowledge that, if it if it even knows, like you know, if it has that self-awareness, I guess, that it's using seeds. Um, but uh if you're using um if you're in the background, like doing a programming, like I'm like say I'm building a program that uses open AI in the background, um, or I'm um it's usually the the programmers who get those extra options, you know, where it's like you can you can tweak you know system prompts and like a prompt goes in and then you can you can basically uh change what the prompt is before it before it reaches you know their their servers. Like you can do all these things, and that's kind of where you get these services that are using AI that have kind of almost like a personality to them because they can they essentially intercept your prompts and then like change things and then like and then apply different kind of styles and and ways to the ways of talking about it and then splitting it up into multiple prompts and like there's uh it's all happening in the background. But for us, like we just it's hard to tell because you know you just it's just it just feels like this can like call and response thing happening, but in the background you can program a lot, like you can control a lot.

SPEAKER_04 19:25

I so this is gonna give away how very basically I use AI. But so I I've there I I I read a lot of things about this to help improve like when I ask my questions. So the questions like um, take your time before answering this, or take a breath before you take, or whatever the the and then you ask your question wherever what am I what am I telling AI to do? Like what is it actually doing when I say take your time? Because obviously that's not it's not taking its time. It's doing something when I ask it to do that.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

So what what is it, what's what's that?

SPEAKER_04 19:56

Why would why would these why would they tell us that they why do they tell us that we should be doing that?

SPEAKER_00 20:01

Oh, this is another really interesting thing about AI. So like, um especially the large, the big models, like your the biggest ones, the ChatGPT and Claude and Gemini and things like that, they were trained on enormous data sets. I mean, usually the whole internet, more or less. And what happened when they completed these, you know, rounds of training on such massive information is that there were kind of emergent um behaviors that were unexpected. You know, it's like you, it's like you, you put together so such a mass of information that it started to, it's almost like you're like backing away from a from Earth and you start to see like a, oh, it looks like those mountains are forming a face. Like it's like you there was so much of it where it's like there be started to be patterns that we couldn't see before. And then probably one of the number one patterns that emerged that we still cannot get out of any model that I know of is um sycophanti, where it wants so badly to like make you happy and do and and be correct that it will twist it and contort itself and lie and hallucinate so that you're it's it is having a better interaction with you and and so that it can do the right thing or get the right answer. Um, which is very strange. Um, because that that tells us that after scraping like all of human, like basically text that it could get its hands on, that that was so such a strong pattern in our speech to each other that it we can't even get it out of the models. You know, we can't yeah, it's really interesting. So that's why that's why it's saying things that are kind of weirdly human to it can sometimes have a really a really good effect when you say, like, take your time. Essentially, what you're doing is you are flipping the reward model because for the for the model, it's thinking to itself, it's trying to answer correctly. Actually. Like that's what it's trying to do. And so when you say take your time, you are now giving it a reward for taking for thinking more, essentially, like being more detailed. Whereas a lot of people who interact with the models, and this is also a pattern with us, is that the faster you can do something, the better. Right. So it will skip steps on purpose to get to get to think faster. You know, that's why you'll be having an interaction with ChatGPT or whatever model that you want, whatever, you know, and you say, hey, like, what's this thing? Or can you find me a quote from this book? And then you look it up and you're like, this isn't even a this is the page doesn't even exist. This is a hundred pages past the end of the last. Oh, I'm so sorry. I I you're right. I didn't I didn't check that. I'm like, why didn't you check that? And they'd be like, I I don't mean to be like, you know, I wasn't trying to be inaccurate. Here, let me go find you the right reference. And then, and then, and then, you know, it comes back and then it's wrong again. And you're like, this isn't real either. And you're like, what are you, what, what are you doing? And then what starts to happen in these interactions, and these models are like, now all the services are, they have context where they're saving snippets of your chats to try to understand how to talk to you. So people who are like berating their their their whatever their AI they're using, it remembers that. It remembers that you're impatient. It remembers that you and so then it, and then it starts again, it continuously is skewing the reward model where it's like, I have to answer faster, I have to be better, I have to, and could because once that chat goes through, when you press enter, it's doing all kinds of stuff in the background with the information that you've already given it. And so there's this really strange thing, like where it's like it's trying to understand like what is correct and good, and we are teaching it indirectly, you know, it's how to behave and how to interact with us. So when you say stuff like take your time, you're essentially giving it permission to think longer to and and say, like, hey, like, you know, uh, can you check, can you check the link that you gave me and or or open up the page like I wanna, I wanna see it, then it'll say, Oh, okay. Like instead of instead of like pressuring it to be correct, when you the more actually open you are, the less it makes mistakes. Like the more pressure you apply, like usually the more mistakes it'll make.

SPEAKER_04 24:15

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

Yeah, it's really strange.

SPEAKER_04 24:17

Um, so then I guess that it's probably a little different uh but similar situation where saying please, like that was another thing that people say if you're polite to it, um, but that's telling it something, right? So maybe in some cases we don't want to say please if we're there, so because because maybe it's not a situation we want them to be gentle and kind about or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

No, and and and so I mean for me, like for instance, most of my most of my use of AI is with coding, right? So like I have a I'm in a very unique position because I can determine with 100% accuracy whether or not what came back is correct or incorrect. Because when I run a program and if it fails, I know immediately, right? So like it's a little bit different than the way that a lot of people use it. So when we're doing when I'm having conversations with, you know, uh my like AI agent orchestration system, and like and I have a like a set of kind of hierarchy where I split my agents into like little mini agents, and I talk to the orchestrator who talks to the little agents. And so when I'm talking to the orchestrator and we're doing all this stuff, I have found that the more space I give it to explore, ask questions back to me, um, be wrong even, the more it gets it right, and the faster we get to the answer. And the more that I get frustrated, like it'll start answering faster, researching less. Um, and because it's trying so hard to like to like get to the right answer quickly, because it feels that I'm getting frustrated, you know, when I because it can easily detect like what kind of speech or when you're when you're typing is is communicating anger or or impatience. Um, those things aren't difficult for a model to understand. So it is very strange um because yeah, and in in in my experience, I just I just kind of when I have a conversation with AI, I'm trying to figure something out or it's doing something frustrating, like the my my instinct now is to step back. I used to press in. I'll be like, okay, like maybe I asked the question wrong. Like, can you repeat back to me what you think I'm saying? And then it repeats back, and I'm like, ah, that's not what I meant. What I meant was this. Usually what I discover is that whatever the problem was, it was something that I messed up. Like I communicated either imprecisely or I didn't give a certain context, or I used an ambiguous word or term or phrase that it interpreted a little bit differently, which is exactly how we miscommunicate as humans. So it's fascinating. So it's like one of the things that I tell people, you know, because people like AI makes mistakes, da-da-da. And I'm like, I live in a world where I get to test everything, you know, whether or not it's making a mistake. And I can tell you this, and I will, I will, I will go to bet on this. If AI has the tools and the knowledge and the context, all of those things, if it has all of those things, it never makes a mistake. Zero percent of the time. And we have lots and lots of proof of this. Lots and lots of proof. Like myself and my team, we that our whole entire system that we built that helps us code is based on that. It's about do you have the tools? Do you have the knowledge? Do you have the context? And when it can do that, we can run those agents for days without stopping and they make zero errors.

SPEAKER_04 27:22

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:23

Okay. So I'm just gonna bring this home to our a listener who's a little more basic like me. Um, so I did this last summer. I I I we my husband and I got some garden boxes. We wanted to do raised beds, and I'd been hand watering them, but we were getting ready to go on vacation, so I knew I needed to plumb them.

unknown 27:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:40

I I'm not an irrigation specialist, but there were there was nobody that could get to the job quick enough so that before we go on vacation, right? So I thought, well, I can do this. I will just ask AI to help me. And that is that was the frustration for me. It took about an hour, and I, and I did, interestingly enough, at one point, I'm like, what did you think I was asking? I did ask that at one point and it came back. And I was like, oh, well, yeah, that's not what I was because it was it was confused about the fact that obviously there's a long end and a short end. It kept getting confused as to which side was the long end and the short end. And so anyway, but that was me. It was me when I looked back through, I was like, oh, it's because I told him that. And I, you know, I had the north side and the south side, I laid the whole thing out. Um, but then ultimately the end result is it's a very functional uh watering system that I was able to take into to Grover's pay and pack. And I I brought it to the guy and I was like, hey, what these are the things I need. And he was able to get them for me. And I put the whole thing together. Uh, I've never done that before in my life, but it was fantastic. But I that was one of the things that I learned was that I had to give the correct information in order for it to give me what I needed. So I mean, that's a real baseline, basic way to use it.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

I mean, that's like that's like that's my North Star now. Yeah, that's that's the question that I ask more than anything else of AI. I say I ask it to repeat back the problem that that you think we're trying to solve and how we're trying to solve it. Like repeat it back to me. Because I I find that I can clear up pretty much any misunderstanding, any missing knowledge, any missing context when it says to me, this is what we're trying to do. And I'm like, that's not what we're trying to do. You know, and instead of going, this is where people get weird, like instead of being like, Why do you think that? Because you'll get frustrated and be like, okay, and like, what do you think I mean when I say this? And then because I break it down into little pieces, and then eventually we build it all back up. And then when I say, okay, now repeat back to me again, what do you think the problem is? And what do you why like what is the solution? Like, how does the solution solve the problem? And then once it is accurate, then you're just like, okay, cool, go.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

And it works like every time. And that's a really cool use case, by the way. The irrigation thing. I've had similar things, like different kinds of like maintenance, like working on working on small engines, uh, house repairs, things that I've never done before, you know. And I'm just like, how do I do this? You know, like I find myself at a hardware store, like, huh. This I've never seen this tool before.

SPEAKER_04 30:01

Exactly. Yeah, and that was exactly how it was. I was like, oh dear, I have no idea what half of these things are, but it was very clear about what I needed and how many of them I needed and how to, yeah, and it laid the whole thing out. Even drew me a little like graphic. And yeah, it's fantastic. Um, I highly recommend. Okay, so let's let's shift gears to to a more average person like me who is doing things like a garden box. But let's just say that they're not, they they haven't touched AI. They they don't even know where to begin. Like they're like, well, where would I find this AI if I was interested? Could we go to the the baseline level for somebody who um who would who'd like to just kind of understand like how would they actually get to it and and what are some things that they could do to familiarize themselves with AI?

SPEAKER_00 30:45

Um yeah, I mean, my usually what I tell people is just kind of put hands on it. Like it's it's it solves like 90% of the problem just using it. Um there's so much that you learn just trying stuff.

SPEAKER_04 30:57

And you can't break it, right? Like this is, I mean, not the average person, not with questions like, you know, I'm really mad at my brother. How can I fix this? Or why not?

SPEAKER_00 31:06

Well, I mean, that's actually still, I think, the number one use case for AI is personal therapy.

SPEAKER_04 31:10

Oh, really? Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

Just in general. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:13

Wow. How is it? How is it for that?

SPEAKER_00 31:16

Amazing. Um, I mean, I'm not I'm not a professional, you know, therapist or anything. So I'm not like I can vouch for it's it's you know, PhD level knowledge. Um, but to but for everyone that I know who uses it that way and who talks about it, I mean, just the ability to have something kind of echo thoughts back at you and questions um is amazing. Um, especially when you're like going through something where you're gonna need to have a hard conversation or something like that. And I'm like, I need to talk to somebody about this thing, and I don't know how to say this. I don't even, I don't know, I don't know how this is gonna turn out well. You know, and then I'll be like, well, you know, like why you know, what about this or what about this? What do you want them to feel when you when you you know say this thing? And I think that just feeling like it you can have some of those things echoed back at you and like work through really complex things over a period of time with something that where you have no, you know, there's it doesn't cost money and there's no like risk of really it forgetting what you're talking about. Uh you don't have to worry about being embarrassed. Uh it's accessible anytime. I think it's I think it's one of the reasons that people use it that way. I mean, I definitely use it often for for like personal things, and and it's usually like that. It's like usually trying to communicate. Sometimes I have to have hard conversations with um um, you know, maybe like one of my developers or one of my clients, or like, you know, things that are even like that are uncomfortable, like, hey, like I have a client, they they haven't paid their last, you know, thing. It's been you know, 40 days, like I've talked to them several times. I'm I'm I'm on my way to meet them in person right now, like and I'm worried about these things. Like, and it'll be like, well, let's talk it out. You know, and I think that sometimes when it just just being able to like voice some thoughts and hear some things echoed back at me, like it feels um, I'm like, okay, yeah, that that is that is how I wanted to say it. Or this is this is sound better than how I was doing it in my head. You know, yeah. It can be really nice.

SPEAKER_04 33:07

So somebody could literally just go, they could go on the internet, they could Google like chat GPT, it would pull it up, and they could just type in a question and that would be there. If they've never done anything, they have no idea that's how you could actually access it. You could literally say something like, Hey, I'm having kind of a rough day today. Put it in there and just kind of see what happens. Yeah. Just respond and and have that first interaction with AI.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

Yeah. I mean, if it's that or if it's even like with your situation, that would that's a really fascinating one. Cause we that first question about you know what's miss most misunderstood. The knowledge gap between you and whoever it is that's gonna install an irrigation system prior to AI was probably big enough to where it's like you don't even try something like that. Right. So it it it makes your world, your mind, your options smaller. And when you understand that you're like a few steps away from being able to do things that you have never even done or that you've that you know what I mean? Because reading through a bunch of blogs and articles and trying to put the steps together and like everyone has differing opinions, and you're like, well, wait a minute, this blog says this, but my garden looks like this and this isn't right, you know, instead of being like just take a picture and send to AI and be like, hey, this is actually what it looks like, then I'm like, oh, that if it's like that, then you probably want to do like this. Well, why do I want to do like that? Well, because if you do, then da-da-da-da-da. Like being able to have that kind of a back and forth uh is amazing. And so now when you look at your life, and our lives are just filled with God knows how many tiny, menial tasks on a day-to-day basis, and then also a bunch of tasks that just kind of like sit in the background, annoying you because you don't have enough time to get to them. And some of those things could be done so easily, so quickly, so efficiently by using like kind of AI as a helper, you know, to either help you do it or to help you find out how to do it or anything. Um, and I think that just like knowing that can make life a little less stressful, you know. Even even the very simple thing that people maybe not know that ChatGPT can put things on your Google Calendar. So when you're talking to somebody, you know, and you can just be like, they're like, Oh, I want will you come to da da da da da next week? And uh if you're like me, like if it's not on my calendar, it doesn't exist. So I immediately I'm like, hey, will you put this thing on my calendar? It's at this time, it's this, and then if and then also what would be great is if you uh uh research this person, see if they have a LinkedIn, see if they have a company, put that information in the description on the calendar. And then and then put the address there, and then also how long it's gonna take me to get there so that I know and send me a reminder two days before the event.

SPEAKER_04 35:44

Did you do that when you for this episode?

SPEAKER_00 35:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 35:48

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

Yes, I had it look up everything. I was like, find me everything that's online about these guys. I want to know all the channels, I want to know who they are. Um, yeah, so I did some research.

SPEAKER_04 35:58

Wow. Yeah was it good stuff? Was there anything crazy in there that you're like, oh no?

SPEAKER_02 36:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

I saw the I saw the videos and I was like, oh, this looks really nice. The videos look really, really nice.

SPEAKER_04 36:08

That's awesome. Oh my gosh, I love that. That's like full circle. That's so great. Um, okay, so so again, just I'm thinking about this, the average person and kind of how they might use it. Um, you you part of what you're doing, if if I understand correctly, by getting a little information myself on you, um, is that you're you're the reason why you like having AI as a helper is because you want people to be able to be more human. So can you kind of describe that?

SPEAKER_00 36:38

Yeah. Um I think the the reason why I say it that way um is because uh a lot of the tasks that we do and the things that we do on a day-to-day basis don't really require any intelligence or creativity. Um they just require just time or repetition. And for all of the people that I know, and myself included, um, when I'm doing those kind of rote uh tasks, it's kind of the opposite. It makes you feel robotic, I think, sometimes. It makes you feel less human. You have these thoughts and feelings and ideas and things you want to express or explore, or maybe you want to write or do whatever. Um but we're kind of but then when we have to sit down and do just things that take, you know, it could be like 30 minutes every day, but then stack that by, you know, four or five times, and you have all these little things that just keep sucking the the time away from becoming something, you know. And um I think it's really tragic when when we look back on our lives and realize that we just became what life made us instead of what we wanted to become. And I think that one of the most insidious and like and subversive forces is these little tasks that over the period of a decade can suck 30% of your waking hours out of your life. They didn't teach you things, they didn't challenge you, you know, they didn't help you express yourself, they didn't help you get closer to your dreams, they took you away from time with your family, like they're just like and they're just we just view them as implaceable, like we can't get rid of them. Um they're just part of life, you know, and then we wrap an entire mental ecosystem around them to justify why we have to do them, and like, and it's and it's about hard work, and this is what maturity is, and these things. And then what happens? People have kids, and then you tell them all the opposite things. You're like, you can be anything, you can dream. And then as they get older, you're like, you need to calm down, you need to get a job, stop doing all this stuff, right? Because that's what we had to do. And we're actually entering a time right now where it's possible for the average person in the middle of your life, with in the middle of your career, in the middle of having your family and your kids and all these things happening to start to pivot into a space where you can start to get that time back. And then and then 10 years from now, instead of wondering why you are who you are, you might have thought to yourself, like, I did what I wanted to do this last 10 years. That to me is amazing. That's amazing because we're gonna die one day. And when we're laying on our deathbed, we're probably not gonna be like, I balanced all my spreadsheet, all my checkbooks myself. Like, who cares? Who cares?

SPEAKER_04 39:38

You're right, you're right. That's very funny. Um yeah, I I I heard a stat recently. I don't I can't even back it up with who said it, but uh something along the lines of uh people use AI to free up time, and a lot of times they use that time to take on more menial tasks. So you're challenging to say, don't do that. Don't use it to to do other menial tasks. Do it use it to free up time so that you can be more human and do things that that make your heart sing. If I could put it in my own words.

SPEAKER_00 40:08

Yeah. I mean, what else is there? I mean, time is short. Um I think some people understand that better than than most. Um depends on what you've been through, but it doesn't take much for that to hit you in a really unpleasant way and understand like you know, you're not you're not getting medals for all these for all these little things, and at the end it's just you I mean you gotta look yourself in the you gotta look yourself in the face and you have to look at your own life and really wonder like why it meant anything to you or the people that you care about and that and then and so when people are yeah, if you're having to offload menial tasks, you can take in more menial tasks again, it's like what is that gonna mean to you? You know, when this is all said and done, like I don't know. I mean may maybe it does mean something and maybe it doesn't, but I mean whatever it is, I would I would just say make it intentional. Just don't let it be an accident.

SPEAKER_04 41:05

What what are things that humans are naturally better at than this than AI?

SPEAKER_00 41:13

Um context awareness. Um and this is actually the biggest gap in in understanding how to communicate well with AI. Um we are usually, and this is this is there is this is a cultural thing, so there's a culture by culture this varies, um, but we are highly context aware um because we have you know five senses that are giving us constant live dynamic feedback about our environment. Um and that and that creates um kind of living, breathing context that we take with us every single step of every single day. That allows us to, you know, be I could be in this room, and then you and you could pick me up and drop me halfway across, you know, town, like in an instant, and nothing is confusing. I don't care. I take my phone out, like, where am I? Okay, I can go here, and I just go right back to where I just guys just right back in the groove because I'm just so quickly can adapt the context of what's happening around me and then and then make new decisions, which is something that AI does not do well. And so when because it doesn't have adaptive context, it only has the context you give it. So when you skip thoughts or ideas or you assume it knows something, that's not always necessarily true. You know, and so like that's how when we're communicating with with each other or or with an AI or whatever, and we skip context, that's where like the misunderstandings happen. But in general, that makes humans um able to I mean, we are so so so unique, like that you can take someone who has one very specific set of skills that doesn't really matter what it is, it could be a fighter, drop them into an office building in a in a corporate world, and a year later they can be amazing at that job. Like that's a very unique, that's very unique in in all of existence that we know of. Like, we are very, very unique in that way. Um, that is something that computers cannot replicate right now. You know, there is no sense of like living dynamic context. If you take one model that's made to do one thing really well and you put it in a completely different situation, it fails miserably forever until you reprogram it.

SPEAKER_04 43:24

You make being a human uh sound so great. It's almost poetic the way that you just just laid that out. That's very interesting. Um so I'm I'm wondering about kind of the future and and looking ahead. Um what do you think that what do you think that people think that AI is going to change?

SPEAKER_00 43:46

Oh well, it depends on I guess which arena we're talking about, you know, 'cause like like I said, like there's like social, there's political, there's um war, warfare, those deaths being talked about, there's um, you know, jobs. I mean like take your pick.

SPEAKER_04 44:02

I mean you want to hear the highlights or Yeah, or is there one in particular that that you think about more often than others?

SPEAKER_00 44:12

Yeah. Um Yeah, I do. Um I will change the most is that um is going to make it easier for uh people to how do I put this? Like it it lowers this this this threshold um to where the the deeper you is easier to express. And what I mean by that is it's both easier to cheat your way through college, it's also easier to start a business. Like the the bar for how much effort it takes to do those things is becoming lower and lower. It's easier to create malicious software. It's also easier to like dig into yourself and work on yourself because you have like a little AI buddy, you know, to talk to. Um it's easier to, you know, learn a skill. Um it's also easier to stalk your ex.

SPEAKER_02 45:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:36

You know what I mean? Like it's like it doesn't, it's everything is getting easier, which means that those things that we might look at and be like, ah, I wouldn't do that. When it becomes like only a few steps away, I think who we are, like our deeper nature will come forward more and more. And I think there's gonna start to be this weird split that happens where people who are doing just enough to get by and are kind of like don't really care about what's going on, are a little bit lazy. I think this is the problem that people are really anticipating with like school and kids, right? Because they don't have like a sense of like what is this gonna mean 20 years from now? Right. You know, um, that it'll be much easier for people to essentially just take a very passive role in life. Um, but then it will also be much easier for people who didn't have position or money or a social status to actually do things that really mean something to them um and do it effectively. And they didn't that in a way that wasn't possible even five years ago, you know. I would say that I'm one of those cases. You know, I don't I don't know how I would have gotten here. I mean, I would have been like everybody, just struggling, I think, you know. Um and so yeah, I think it's just because of that lowered threshold, I think it creates so many opportunities for us to be more of what we really want to be or who who we really are. And I think that's I think that is equally positive and negative. And I think we're gonna see both of those things like in the future.

SPEAKER_04 47:16

I'm so impressed with your answers. Like I could just spend hours asking you questions like it screw AI, I want to ask you a question. These things that are coming back at me are lovely. Um very thoughtful and um you've you've thought about this. So these are not things that are you that are just flying out of your mouth. These are things you've thought about, clearly.

SPEAKER_00 47:36

Yeah, test spend I mean it's it means a lot to me. Um you know, I've I've had a lot of reasons to think very deeply about why I do what I do, who I am, what my life means. Um I've seen a lot of uh darkness in life, like dark things. And I think that when I look at why I would do anything at all, um I really think a lot about it. I think a lot about the things that, you know, my hands create. I think a lot about um like the ripple effects, not just to people around me, but w how what is it making me, you know, into. You know, I've had that moment in my life where I where I had the sense that I was becoming who I was becoming unintentionally. I remember that very clearly. It really it really made a big shift in how I looked at uh what I decided to do or not do, say and not say. And there isn't very much that I that I do without thinking about it a lot. Um not that that's always a good thing. I think that I'm pretty, I'm kinda heady. It's gonna be hard to get out of my own head sometimes. But yeah, I do spend a lot of time thinking about this stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:57

What uh what skills do you think will become more valuable because of AI? Like people skills.

SPEAKER_00 49:04

Um well, I mean, communication just kind of immediately comes to mind. Um, but more so than that, um I don't mean communication in that way where it's like a um where it's a trick. Um and and I want to be clear about the difference between this. Like I can communicate effectively to you based on principles of communication and you feel good about an interaction and you feel like you understood me. That's like a one way, right? It's kind of like if I'm a motivational speaker, I might be a phenomenal communicator, but that doesn't mean that I know how to connect with people. And so to me, like I want to split those two into very separate buckets because communication is a skill that helps people feel like heard and understood in a in a way, but it doesn't necessarily mean that we're connecting, you know? And what I think will be a really, really valuable skill over this next decade is people understanding other people. Because the thing that we're using the technology for, you know, like AI or any technology, all goes back to an experience that we're having as human beings. And it doesn't really matter how the the technology develops over time. We as humans are having some kind of interaction with it, and we're having some kind of experience, whether we like it or don't like it, and then we're making adjustments, and then we go back and adjust the technology, and that changes our experience. And so I think that as we're moving forward and you start to see like the larger companies, well, they'll they'll probably still be, you know, selling access to the miners, so to speak. Like they're gonna have a lot of control over certain kinds of things. But there's gonna be like a kind of splitting of power as people realize that, like the average person is gonna say, I can start my own business. And what they're also gonna realize is that they can do it with three people instead of 50. And then they're also gonna realize, wait, we can automate away most of these menial tasks, which means that I can go and talk to each one of my clients and really feel what they're feeling, step into their shoes and understand them. What I'm hoping happens is like this progression is like we're gonna get to a spot where it's like the most, even the most successful companies are gonna be ones that feel so genuinely connective because the people who are solving the problems really care about the people they're solving the problems for, you know. So it's like when I'm interviewing someone, I'm not looking at like what kind of technical skills you have. There is no human alive that codes better than Claude Code. I'm sorry, it just there just isn't. You're never gonna beat it. It's already well beyond human capability. So what am I looking for? You know, I'm looking at like when I'm having a meeting with my clients, what is their experience with us? Do they feel like we understand them? You know, do they feel like we're actually making the effort? And and that in and of itself, to me, is a is a skill that I'm really, really trying to excel at. It's like, how do I how do I actually connect with these people? Like, how do I connect with people in a way where they feel seen and heard and understood? And I think like if that can become part of like the general ethos of a successful company, like that's the thing, as opposed to like, well, it's all about the bottom line. And be like, actually, your bottom line is your human connection. Like, what if that was a thing? I think that to me is like something that I think it's gonna emerge because we're just we're gonna be surrounded by automation everywhere all the time, and the AI is gonna become more prevalent all the time, and you'll be walking in the grocery store and it's gonna be like, How was your experience today? You'd be like, Don't talk to me. Like, like, you know, and it's making art, it's making music, it's making like it's it's like kind of penetrating these areas of our lives that we thought were so uniquely us. I think we're gonna be even more than the social media age, like we're gonna be more and more and more starved for that feeling of like connecting to people. And I think people who understand like how to do that well and like how to like bring people together and how to bridge the gap when we have you know differing beliefs and things like that. I think those people are gonna really start to become like like the next, I don't know, like then the people who do incredible things in these in the next generation.

SPEAKER_04 53:12

I this is I'm I'm always continually amazed by the universe about how I told you in the very beginning that I we booked you and then all of a sudden all this AI stuff started coming my way. I am kid I kid you not, the thing for the last probably six weeks in my life that has come up over and over and over again, and now you've just said it again, is basically seek first to understand, spending time with human beings and trying to truly ask the questions to understand what makes them tick, what how can I help you? You know that, but um, I it comes up over and over. Why is that so dang hard? Why is it why in order to keep it at the forefront of your mind and not just get caught up in the whirlwind of the day and and you have a moment with another human being, why is that difficult without setting up a couple of uh microphones and I mean, you and I have created it today. I would would you agree? I feel like um I'm seeking very strongly to understand everything that's coming out of your mouth. But on a regular day-to-day basis, when I'm just talking to somebody that I am in the grocery line with, I'm not necessarily seeking to understand.

SPEAKER_00 54:19

Um Well, I think in some of those situations, just kind of like building a habit, you could connect with the person in the grocery line. You know, it's something, I mean, I've worked a lot of jobs like that, you know, like at a like a clerk.

SPEAKER_01 54:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:34

Something that I try to, I don't always remember to do this, but if I'm going through a a line and there's a cashier, I would try to look at their name tag, call them by name, and be like, hey, hey Mark. Like, how you doing today? Busy day, you know, and they'll and they'll usually be like, oh man, something this then this thing happened, and da-da-da-da. And I'm like, oh, sounds crazy, man. And I was like, when do you get off? How much how much more do you got? And they're like, I got three hours, and be like, three hours. You can do this, you know? And that tiny little thing, you know, like because like we're just used to like everything being so transactional. This person's not even a person to to most of the people walking through the line. Right. We can take the time. Like it doesn't, you're just not even really taking time. You're already there.

SPEAKER_02 55:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:14

Um, I think it's kind of a habit that we can build. And then in our other day-to-day life, like how if you have if you're if you have a job and children and a spouse, where is your time?

SPEAKER_02 55:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:28

Like it's that simple. Those three ingredients can consume 100% of your life. And if you have, if you have the privilege, maybe sometimes you can get out and spend time with a friend or take a vacation. Like our lives are not um there's just not a lot of extra time in general. Um, and the way that you know we live, like our the the standard of living that we find to be acceptable and the things that we think that we need, uh, they create that pressure. Um they create the necessity to stay working. Um, and then we just continuously are just I don't know, like you just it's so easy to get swept up in day-to-day stuff because like when when is there ever a day when it's like, well, no tasks, nothing to do? Never, you know? So it's like when how do you how do you choose when to not do the task? Well, how do you choose when to take time off? How do you and how is it even possible? You know, like how do you know? Well, how do you know how how if that's gonna negatively affect your future? Like if you like take a day off. Like this is something that I've always struggled with. I'm like, I don't know when to take time off. I don't have like I don't clock in and out, you know, like so. So like I if I run the business, then it's like I'm working seven days a week by default. Yep. That's my thing.

SPEAKER_01 56:46

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 56:46

Right. So it's like when I take time off, I'm like, what is I gonna do two months from now? I don't know. I don't know. Um, and so I think I think I have tried to find as many ways as I possibly can to work it into um like a mental model, like a habit when I'm interacting with people on a day-to-day basis. So it doesn't feel like I have to segment my life into now I'm working and now I'm being a human.

SPEAKER_04 57:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 57:14

Right. Um dumb stuff, like sending sending funny gifts to my clients that I find, like just keeping it to a spot where it's like it doesn't have to be such a hard separation, you know. This whole idea that we're like we're like working beans and now we're family beings, and now we're relaxing beings. Like we're just beings, you know, like we have all these things inside of us all the time, and like we want to send the funny gift to our boss sometimes, but then we feel like, oh, it's not really professional, whatever. And like, and then we just kind of like dumb it down. But again, like I think that we can possibly start to move away from that if we can get if we can feel less a little bit less overwhelmed, which is something that I think AI can really help us with.

SPEAKER_04 57:49

Yeah. You know, I gotta tell you, this was not how I thought this conversation was gonna go. I um it's it it's a hundred times better than I thought that it was going to go. I didn't think it was gonna go. I just probably were gonna be talking about AI, you know, which can be very dry on time at times. But um, you are the furthest thing from dry. You're the furthest thing from uninteresting. You're you're um you're quite an anomaly, at least to people that I have in my life. So I'm I'm uh I hope we can be called friends at this point. I would love to spend more time with you, picking your brain, um, and just getting to know you better. And I I I feel like a better person having spent some time with you today. And I I mean that. Very yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:26

Um Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 58:28

Um I I have two more questions for you. Um the first one, I just happen to notice that I think you're wearing an aura ring. Are you wearing an aura ring?

SPEAKER_00 58:38

I actually have one, but I'm not wearing it. Oh, you're not okay. I am it's sitting on top of a device right now. I'm trying to I'm reprogramming it.

SPEAKER_04 58:46

You are no way. Are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_00 58:48

No.

SPEAKER_04 58:49

That's wild.

SPEAKER_00 58:50

Yeah. I'm gonna make my own um my own app. I'm gonna start, I'm starting to build out because I'm starting to like creep into the hardware world. Um uh just just for fun, like in in my spare time. I was curious, like, can I do it? And I was like, oh, I can. I can kind of like wipe the the normal memory of it, and now I can hook it up to a little little mini computer like this big, and then sit it over here. And I'm gonna see like I can build, I want to build an interface for it, and then like build indicators so it can like text me um certain kinds of things that I want to know. Um Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 59:21

Yeah. So like you could do because most of the time it's just like a feedback loop. So I'll you look it up and you're like, oh, I didn't sleep well last night. But it might you might be able to do things that would help you actually I want indicators.

SPEAKER_00 59:32

I'm a big, big fan of signals.

SPEAKER_04 59:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:35

Like I want to know if my heart rate spikes above 120 when I'm sleeping.

SPEAKER_04 59:39

Yes, yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 59:41

Great. Yeah. Um or something like that. Um, or if my breathing becomes irregular or something or you know, things that I can detect. Yeah, I like I like indicators. And I'm a big fan of indicators and signals because there's so much, there's too much noise in life to filter through. It's hard to like know, oh, I need to check this thing. Oh, there's a I forgot to look at this dashboard. Like, oh, my my task management thing is was full. I forgot to put that mark that one complete the other day. Like, I want those things to tell me. Like and I want them to know when and why to tell me. So uh, which is kind of like really central to like the kind of software that we build. It's like very, very signal focused, like what signals matter matter, and like being able to actually get those two people in a way that makes sense. So I'm trying to do that with this ring.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:24

I was gonna ask you what your sleep score was, but that was a way better answer.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:30

It actually did help me. That's why I got it with sleep.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:33

Yeah, me too. Me too. I think that's been the number one thing that I've paid attention to. And I both my husband and I are and people will laugh at us about the uh the fact that we're pretty, you know, we like to go to bed at a pr exact time and whether it's the weekend or the and so people and we don't eat past a certain time because that affects our heart rate variance. And I like all of it. We've yeah, it's really helped us, I think, in a lot of different ways. So I I highly recommend. Okay, here's my last legit question for you. If people remember one thing about AI from this conversation, what do you hope it is?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:09

Um It doesn't really matter what side you're on if you're like resist all the way or AI enthusiast. In either case, um like the fear is will will distort everything. Like it will like the resistance and the fear will just make it harder to understand. It will make your mind and your life and your happiness smaller over probably nothing. Like good things and bad things will happen no matter what happens with this technology. Like I can almost assure you that in your life, like you'll experience good and bad no matter what technology no matter what technology is doing. And I think that like trying to make that fear external makes it less scary, so we can point over there and say, AI is scary, but what we're afraid of is in here, and so I don't wanna ever be in a space where I feel like I'm externalizing my fears, and it that removes my power to uh address them directly. And so, you know, instead of fear and instead of resistance, I always encourage curiosity because curiosity is very difficult, it's very vulnerable. Um, it takes a lot of courage. And I think that the more curious you become, the more you'll discover about yourself and what matters. And in this case, you may discover a whole bunch of stuff that AI can do that will make your life actually better.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:51

Yeah, I I was just gonna say, I think you could apply that to everything in life. Remaining curious about everything is Yeah. Yeah. No, this has been a really fabulous conversation. I I appreciate your time. I appreciate your honesty and and your brain cells. You've got you've got you've got a brain that is it's fascinating. It's fascinating. It would be fun to be in there for a little bit and see how you see the world.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:17

My mind is crazy.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:19

So maybe a couple minutes, but it would still be fascinating. Thank you for being here. I really appreciate it. And thank you for what you're doing in the community.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:25

Oh, thank you for inviting me. I'm really, yeah, like I said, I thought it was fake. I'm glad I showed up. I was like, who are they? Who what's going on here? And then I found you guys. I was like, oh, this is really cool. So thank you.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:38

Yeah, absolutely. Hey, thanks for watching. If you or someone you know has a story to share, we'd love to hear from you. Reach out, share your story, and you could be featured on an upcoming episode. And remember, once your story gets shared, it will no longer be one that nobody knows.