SPEAKER_00 0:00

Everyone has a story, a moment, a lesson, or a piece of their life most people may never hear. Hi, I'm Callie Zamzo, and this is Nobody Knows. Welcome to Nobody Knows. I'm your host, Callie Zamzo. Today we're going to talk about education, which is something I feel very passionate about. It it affects every single one of us. And it and that's whether we currently have children in school or not. We're all affected by it. It affects our workforce, it affects our economy, it affects our communities, and ultimately it affects Idaho's future. And today's guest has spent her career working at the intersection of education, leadership, workforce development, and public service. So I'm very excited to have her in the studio to talk with us today and help us understand kind of how things are going and what direction we're heading and uh and just I think in general the topic. So welcome to the studio, Dr. Kellerer. I'm so glad to have you, Paula, Paula Keller, I just should say. Um welcome to the studio. And I'm I I am so excited to get started with this conversation. Also, full disclosure, um, we do work together um because I'm a part of Idaho Business for Education, which you are the is it the CEO or CEO and president. Yeah. So she's she runs the show. Um and she you do a wonderful job. I love you as a leader. You're you're you're very easy to follow. So thank you. So excited to be here and to have our conversation today. Yeah, it's it's gonna be very good. And I guess I I want to just start off here with a with a question. Um, so what do Idaho business leaders need to understand about education?

SPEAKER_02 1:41

Great question. I I think the first thing they need to understand is they're more than just consumers of the education process. So there are businesses who wait and say, hey, when they leave high school or when they leave our two-year or four-year institutions, I'm the consumer as a business leader. That's my workforce. What they need to understand is they need to invest early on and they need to be a part of the pipeline and part of the process. It starts at the very beginning with early literacy and caring as a business leader that our students are building that strong foundation. It um continues when they really need to make sure that students are graduating because that's the pool that shapes our talent pipeline and our workforce. So, strong foundations, strong graduation rates, and then pathways afterwards. So, what are the hopes and dreams that our students have? How does that match up with those students and uh the workforce that I need to hire for tomorrow? Employers need to understand that every part of that piece of pipeline uh they need to be invested in because what comes out at the other end is important to the future and to Idaho's economy.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

It seems really straightforward. Um, and yet I think we all get busy in our own lives, and I think sometimes we think, well, somebody else is taking care of that for us. Like everything will be fine because somebody else is taking care of that. So that brings me to Idaho Business for Education. So can you uh can you nutshell Idaho Business for Education so that our our listeners can understand what that organization is doing? Sure.

SPEAKER_02 3:16

So Idaho Business for Education is a nonprofit. We're nonpartisan, and the idea is that we have business leaders from all over the state. So we have members in North Idaho and eastern Idaho and South Central here in the Treasure Valley, both in Ada and Canyon and other counties. And they're a group of people who understand that they're more than consumers of the education, that they want to be involved, that they want to create good policy around what our education system lives within and has to work within. They understand that without a good education system, their workforce and their talent pipeline is at risk. So they have come together to do a little bit of advocacy, but also to engage with the education system, to partner with our elementaries and our high schools and our two-year and our four-year institutions. They really are business leaders who understand the significance of a strong education system. We say great schools are good business, and that's just a true statement.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

Yeah, absolutely. So let's go back to the creation of this organization. Can you tell us maybe what's what was happening during that time that that was the impetus for saying we need this organization?

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Yeah, so there um there were some business organizations in 2005. Um, one of the business organizations that are around kind of decided that they really wanted to take the business and really focus on tax policy and economics. And so they kind of withdrew from the conversation related to education. So a group of leaders, Skip Oppenheimer, Park Price, uh, Judy Meyer up north, several of them came together and said there needs to be a business voice for education. Business can't just withdraw from the education system. We have to continue to contribute, to grow it, to influence it. And so they came together and said, let's create something. Let's create something that stays at the table so that business always has influence and voice in the shaping of Idaho's education system.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

You know, it it seems like a baseline question, um, and maybe it is a dumb question, but uh, but why are business leaders involved in education?

SPEAKER_02 5:36

Yeah, well, if if they're not, then they kind of gamble at what comes out of the system. And in Idaho, you know, we have we have eight public institutions, um, three or four privates that contribute, but really we have to invest so that when we begin to hire, and and we all have to hire if we're in businesses for for the most part, we do have sole proprietors, but we're looking for the skills and the and um the characteristics of good employees, but we really want them to be educated well. We want them to be able to contribute to the workforce. And in the end, when we do have productive citizens who do have great jobs that have livable wages, then Idaho's economy overall is a place that businesses can contribute, continue to thrive in. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

So, as far as the actual businesses and their role, I mean, other than helping to fund your organization or, you know, being involved in trying to educate themselves, do they do businesses have a specific role in this in the education process?

SPEAKER_02 6:42

Yeah, there are lots of ways business can contribute. So we have several programs. One of them, um, we encourage our employers to really educate their employees. So when we're talking about return on investment and how we care for the employees that work for us, one of the our employees' most valuable resources are their children. And so when an employer takes interest in what's going on in the education environment, maybe brings in IBE through a program we have called Within Reach, where we actually sit down with parents and say, have you been thinking about? You have a sophomore, have you already registered them for? Are you thinking about how to fill out the federal forms for financial aid? Have you talked with your students about the pathways that are available? Do you know there are apprenticeships available in your area? Do you know that there are credentialed programs available in your area so that parents as employees are equipped to have really good conversations with their students? So that's one way businesses can get involved. Another is to develop long-term partners with those education entities that are in your area. Sometimes that's a four-year institution, sometimes that's a two-year institution, but there are sometimes it's an elementary or a high school. There are advisory roles that a business person can play in our CTE pathways, our career technical education pathways. All of those programs in the state have to have business advisory boards that kind of help us stay geared to what's actually happening in industry. So if we have a culinary program in a high school, we want experts in that field giving us direction and instruction and helping us know what's coming the way, their way, and what skills our students need so that our programs don't remain grounded in something that we did 20 years ago. So those are two concrete examples of how businesses can step in and really help.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

I it's every time that I hear these things, I remind myself how robust the organization is. There are the there are a lot of moving parts in a lot of areas that you are focused on education. And it's very impressive because your team's not that big. No, our team's a little small, but we're very passionate. You are, you are. So, what are some of the biggest issues that IBE is focused on right now?

SPEAKER_02 9:11

So this year, as we're looking forward, we're really thinking about how we um how how we increase the investment that we as Idahoans make in our education system. So it's pretty public that Idaho funds our education system at number 51. So there are 50 states plus DC. And as we invest in our students in Idaho, Idaho remains pretty consistently at the bottom, and we currently hold number 51. And so that's one of the issues that we would like to tackle and address. Instead of being proud that we're 51, but performing way above number 51 compared to the nation, we'd like to say, what could we do if we invested more? What opportunities would our students have that they currently don't have? How could investing more really impact the whole continuum that our students follow through? And what would that look like on the other end as they come out and contribute to the workforce? So that's one of our biggest issues right now is really thinking about how we fund, particularly K-12 education, modernizing that funding formula so it makes sense, that there's some continuity, that districts, like most businesses, can plan for the future and not just for the next 12 months because we're uncertain. And then I think the other issue that we're really focused on, if we go back to that continuum, is what happens at the very early stages of a child's career in education. Parents do a great job at home for the most part at making sure that students have literacy experiences in preschool and three and four, and we read to our students and we try to build that. But what really happens in that first year? Could we invest more? And one of those ways is through perhaps funding full-day kindergarten, making sure that every student in Idaho has the ability to access that. Parents have the ability to choose whether or not they want their children in a full-day kindergarten program. But currently it's kind of up to your zip code. Although all districts receive some type of early literacy money, IBE was really at that table encouraging that to happen. Not all districts choose to use that to provide full-day kindergarten. So, what would it be like if every child in Idaho had the opportunity and not just those whose boards of education have decided that's how we'll use that money? So early literacy, a funding formula for our new modernized funding formula. Um we are really engaged right now in making sure that when students leave high school, that they have multiple pathways. And one of the programs that we are deeply engaged in is called Idaho Launch. Idaho Launch is one of those programs that for the first time in 10 or 15 years, we have more students matriculating to Idaho universities in credential programs, two-year programs, four-year programs. We're really excited about the fact that we have more students going on, doing something after high school based on their hopes and dreams. So those are those are some of the challenges that we're facing right now is keeping that program funded, making sure it's available for students, and then making sure there are seats in our institutions, in our two-year and four-year institutions. In a really tight economy, sometimes our universities are asked to do more with less. But when we have students who are wanting to go on, we want to make sure that there are seats for them in order to study and to fill those roles.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

Yeah. So I'm I'm curious your thoughts on uh somebody who's uh either have children but they're they're now grown up or don't have children. And why why do those people also need to care about this?

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:23

When our education system isn't working, um, and one of their strongest indicators that IBE keeps a track on is how many students are reading at grade level and third grade. When students are not reading at grade level by the end of third grade, they're four times more likely not to graduate from high school. Wow. And when they don't graduate from high school, the jobs and the opportunities they have to make a livable wage are condensed. It is possible. There are there are many that we can bring as examples where that happens, but for the most part, their choices are condensed. And then as a community member, as a business member, as somebody who doesn't have children, I'm wondering how that person is contributing to our economy. Are they contributing or are they pulling resources away from the economy that we could use in other ways? So that's one I think the most important things to think about is we need a strong education system. Um, because in the end, that continuum um comes out at the end and we have strong Idaho economy. We start with strong literacy foundations, which lead to strong graduation rates, which then we hopefully uh go into multiple choices for our students to follow, um making livable wages, and then that makes a stronger Idaho economy in general.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

Absolutely. I think it was through IBE that I learned that um kids are they learn to read up to third grade, and then after that they read to learn. So if they don't know how to read at that point, they're immediately starting to fall behind because they're unable to learn the next set of information and the next set of information and it snowballs. Uh I that I found that fascinating. And it makes perfect sense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

And it it's not impossible for a student, and certainly it's not impossible for a student to make continue to make games past the third grade. Um, but it takes more resources, it takes more time, and it's much more challenging for both the student and the teachers and the school systems around them to bring them back up to grade level after that point. So, what gives you hope? Um, I think the thing that gives me hope the most is that there are people in Idaho who are very passionate and committed to making our school systems work. Um, we certainly have narrative, a lot of it from the national, that would say our education system is failing in multiple ways, but there are many things that our education is doing well. When we look at the progress we've made in third grade reading just over the last three or four years under the leadership of Superintendent Critchfield, I think we see hope. We're narrowing that gap. I think that there are individuals who are willing to spend time in educating business leaders and legislators about the good things that are happening in our school system, about the pathways in career technical education and CTE, and growing that and re-establishing a foundation that says not everybody has to have a four-year degree. Many of us are dependent on that. Um, INL needs nuclear engineers. Um, Micron needs engineers, but there are many of us in the workforce that just need strong, skilled labor who um, again, will provide a livable wage. And there are pathways for a student who says, I don't want to spend my next four years in school, but here's a pathway where I could receive a credential, that I could build my skills, that I could work on my AA and start moving that way and actually work in the workforce. So I find hope in that our narrative is backing up to say there are multiple pathways. What are your hopes and dreams? Let's see if we have it here in Idaho and let's build it in Idaho, because we have businesses and industry who need those pathways and those skills.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

Are we doing some things well in the state as far as uh as far as education is concerned?

SPEAKER_02 17:41

Yeah, I think we're doing a lot of things well. Um if if I start just with the transition from high school to whatever happens after that, I think we're realizing that there are multiple pathways, that it's not always linear. Um, that a student doesn't necessarily matriculate to a four-year college and and forward. Sometimes a student enters the workforce, and then the workforce says, I need some additional skills, or the student needs additional skills. And so we're beginning to see that there are multiple pathways for our workforce to be educated and to grow. So I think we're doing that well. That we're we're we're not stair-stepping kids and saying, this has to come after this, after this, after this. There are multiple pathways to do that. I think Idaho Launch has helped us do that by providing a lot of credentialed programs across our institutions that students find engaging. I think connected to that is the movement in our high schools to provide really strong career technical education programs when students can dabble in the workforce in the high school as juniors and seniors. They learn culinary skills, they learn auto-body, they learn IT skills, they learn, you name it, we've got amazing pathways. And then they actually get to spend time in a business and an industry. They find their passion early on and don't have to spend time in a pathway that they're not sure about because they haven't really experienced it. So I think we're doing that really well. And then I do think that we are beginning to invest strongly in providing strong foundations for literacy, which will pay dividends for us as our children matriculate through the system. So I think those are things that we're doing well. We're beginning to recognize that those in the classroom are really important, our teachers. So taking care of them, making sure that they too have a livable wage. Yes. That they have salaries that actually provide for their families. Uh we're not there yet. Um we remain pretty low compared to um neighboring states and across the U.S., but we're recognizing that. Our governor has invested in trying to increase those salaries and continuing to do that. So I do think we're doing that well. We're not done doing it, um, but we're recognizing that that's important in honoring those folks who are in the classroom doing the hard work.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

Yeah. This is uncomfortable to say, but I I I think sometimes we can we can see where a society what we value based on how much we're willing to pay somebody. And it is one of the things that bothers me about our our system because you can argue that those people who are educating our youth and and helping them rise up and to be the next generation to take things over, those people are incredibly important.

SPEAKER_02 20:44

Absolutely. They're on the front line, they're doing amazing things. I I think um, in my experience, the strongest teachers really have felt that call, that that that's what their life is about. And they'll put up with a lot of things, unfortunately, in order to stay there and to serve kids. Um, we shouldn't have to ask them to do that. We should be able um to reimburse them in a way that allows them to not have to work jobs in the summer. Um they are working in the summer, they're developing curriculum, they're preparing their classroom, but to take on that second job either through the school year or something like that. So we, you know, we uh continue um to sometimes with our mouth say we value that, but now we need to follow that up with and and here's how we continue to do that. Um starting by saying um we're experiencing some inflation. What does that look like in a cost of living wage across the board? Absolutely. Can we do that?

SPEAKER_00 21:41

Yeah. Yeah. So let's shift gears a little bit. I would love to talk about apprenticeship and and how IBE is involved with that. Can you talk about that?

SPEAKER_02 21:51

Yeah, um we love youth apprenticeship. It kind of sits at the intersection of business and education. Uh, we do focus on youth. Youth apprenticeship, which means 16 to 24 year olds, and we do focus on federally registered apprenticeships. So in 2020, IBE wrote for a competitive grant in partnership with the Workforce Development Council, received a wonderful grant in competition with several other entities, I don't remember the number, and began this work of youth apprenticeship. It has grown over the years, and we currently are funded through the Workforce Development and grateful for that partnership. But we have team members across the state who work with businesses and saying, seems to me like you have openings. Seems to me like you have a need in your workforce. Do you think a 16, 17, 18-year-old, a 22-year-old would be able to develop the skills to fill that? So we walk alongside businesses and we we build a plan and then we help them recruit. Many times we partner this with our CTE programs, career technical education in our high schools. An example would be we've got a great auto body program at a high school. And so we go to the local auto dealer who has to do repairs and they want to develop workforce. And if they take somebody who's 16, 17 who are learning those skills at school and then practicing them in their auto shop, they get to develop their own workforce. They get to help them understand the nuances of what it's like to work with so-and-so Buick or X and X Toyota, those type of things. So they get to develop that and grow that. And what we know is that when a student does that, they are 50% less likely to be underemployed when they graduate because they know their pathway. They have connections in the industry already. And so they're able to find pathways into that industry and grow their placement. So we've placed um nearly 700 students in the last five years in some type of federally registered apprenticeship program. Um it spans the gamut. Many people think of apprenticeship and they think um electricians and HVAC, and that's true. And we will work with independent contractors with that. We'll also work with our unions who grow that in supporting our youth who are excited about pursuing that. But we also are working with school districts and developing teacher aides who then enroll in a teacher education program in their local community. And we're building that workforce, which is a challenging thing for us to do. We work with many in the banking industry with their frontline support services. So a teller, if you will, but that's generally not what we call them anymore. But developing that, working with a bank to develop a bilingual pathway, for example, for a teller. How valuable would a teller be if they speak both English and Spanish? And we have students in our high school right now with the skills to be a teller, and they come to us with bilingual skills. So kind of matching that together, growing those opportunities. There are over 1,200 apprenticeable pathways in federal. So you name what you have, and there's likely a pathway that IBE can help you build and then connect you back to our high schools, our two-year, because that's where our 22, 23, 24-year-olds are, sometimes our four-year institutions, and connect the love that those students have, the learning that they're getting at those institutions, with the opportunity to practice those skills in your business and in your specific area or industry.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

So business owners who are listening right now, yeah, saying, ooh, that sounds interesting. I think there might be some path within our organization to do that. What would they do if they wanted to?

SPEAKER_02 26:14

Yeah, they would just reach out to IBE. And we do have, um we do have a representative there in eastern Idaho. We have somebody who lives in the Twin Falls area and and spends time in South Central Idaho. We have somebody who lives in North Idaho, and then we have somebody who really um takes care of the Treasure Valley. So they'd reach out to IBE, we would connect, and then we'd begin to have a conversation. Does this work? Is the is the job that you need, is the workforce that you are missing? Is that job that's now advertised out on your website and you can't find people to fill? Is that something we could make apprenticeable? And then we'll begin to work with you in building that pathway and then finding sources that we can find students in that 16 to 24-year-old range to fill. Um, we actually have built apprenticeable pathways where we have no 16 to 24-year-olds in them, but that business has built that with that intent. And then what's ended up happening is that a 28-year-old um comes along and they're working with a 28-year-old. And that's a win for that business and for us in Idaho in building that workforce too.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

That's great.

unknown 27:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

Um I'm curious about the parents' role in all of this. Are do parents generally are they pretty involved with this process or are sometimes kids able to just figure it out the It depends.

SPEAKER_02 27:41

Um, we at the very beginning, we thought, oh, we're gonna start with students and figure out what their love is and then try to convince a business that they need to work with a student. Um that wasn't a very effective model for us. So we we moved that model upside down. I guess in between there, we did have parents who say, Oh, I have a student who needs to be in an apprenticeship. And again, we were then trying to convince a business to walk alongside. So we generally start with the business, what positions are open, and then we go back to students. Um, sometimes we have connections with parents um through a variety of avenues to say, here, here are some pathways that are there. Are you interested? Um, and so we generally work it from this actually is a job that's open right now, it's apprenticeable. What kind of hopes and dreams do you have? Does it fit in here? And can we can we make that work? Parents always advocate for their children. Um currently, with the Idaho launch monies, an apprenticeable program, the expenses associated with that would be covered under Idaho Launch, which is a gift to us because there are expenses. If you um are entering um like the dairy industry, you need you need clothing, you need boots, you need outer gear to protect your clothing. There are expenses up front that apprentices experience that sometimes businesses can't offset. And so um launch can help, and then IBE also helps that apprentice with some of those needs that are associated with being successful in an apprenticeship program.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

Yeah, that makes sense. I'm I'm wondering what uh what skills are gonna matter the most as we move into the future? Are there are there developing skill sets that it's becoming pretty clear that our kids need to be learning?

SPEAKER_02 29:34

Yeah, that's a great question. Um, we we have a variety of terms to describe the soft skills or the durable skills. Those are the skills that we talk about. Can a student problem solve? Um, do they, you know, logically draw conclusions that make sense in this pathway? Can they work in a team? Do they show up to work on time? Those those skills remain important. Um, what we find honestly when we're working with our students who are apprentices, and um, we're one of the few groups, again, that focuses only on youth. So about half of our apprentices that we place are 16, 17, and 18-year-olds. Honestly, we have exited maybe one or two in our experience because they can't show up on time and they aren't working. But you give some of our students the opportunity to thrive in an environment where you're investing in them and building their skills, and they show up. They they show up. There are exceptions to that. But and and again, those skills remain essential. Um, we have a piece of legislation right now talking about how does AI play a role in our education system. And certainly our students' ability to interact in the technology arena is really an important skill that employers are looking for. Sometimes they want specific um content app-related skills, but more than that, I think they want students who can again engage in technology, who can learn, who can uh evaluate its pros and its cons, and um to make ethical decisions within that. So I think that's a skill that's emerging, and we are still trying to find our way into that. Um but employers more often than not would prefer a student to be able to at least not be frightened about entering that into and using those tools and finding the appropriate tools in order to accomplish the job. So soft skills or durable skills, um AI. Um and then if I go back to Ida Home Launch, we have this whole list of in-demand jobs that are out there that have specific skills related to them. So those skills, sometimes our students come with those skills. More often than not, they may not, but their willingness to learn and to build their capacity and to grow, whether that's you know, enrolling in a two-year program while they are practicing on the job or um something, something like that. So that willingness to continue to learn, the next thing in order to add to my repertoire of skills.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

Um learning how to learn is I was at a an AI uh symposium this week, and and one of the things they talked about is that a lot of kids that are graduating uh high school and college, it's kind of a little age range where they're the most underemployed because they are they they came out with a particular specific skill set, and now of a sudden AI is able to do that stuff. And and there's some concern about that. And the point was made that thinking and reasoning and critical, you know, thinking skills matter with AI because you have to have you have to have somebody there who's able to to reason the data and say, okay, AI is doing what it's supposed to do. Because it it does go off in its own. It does hallucinate exactly right. Or it's going down a road that it thinks that you want, but you're actually wanting it to be here. But you have to have a human who can reason that out and and spend that moment to go, wait, something's awry. Um and so the the argument was for those people, um, if if you could go go back into those reasoning skills that you learned and and and spend more time with that, that that may actually be more important than some of the other things that you learned. Although I always argue that education, like lifelong learning, that's life. Like that's life. I I I worry sometimes that we have this whole thing with education and it and we maybe as people we just get burnt out sometimes and we just like we're done with it for a while. But you're never done with it.

SPEAKER_02 34:01

You're never done with it. And and even in things that we wouldn't officially label education. So um, as as you enter caring for an older parent, there's a whole lot of education associated with that. So being in that learner mode, you know, where do I get this information? Where can I find these answers? What makes sense in this type of thing? So that's that's a we don't get a degree in caring for um our aging parents, but it's really an important concept for us to be a learner in in order to walk that path in that part of their lives.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

So, in your opinion, what do students need more of right now?

SPEAKER_02 34:42

It's a great question. What do they need more of? They don't need uh more credits in order to graduate. You know, Aren't we agree with you on that? Our our system, our system says if we want students to learn something, we wrap it up into this nice little thing that we call a credit, and that represents X number of hours. What students need is the opportunity to learn and to demonstrate their learning, I think, in an environment where we have choices. And maybe that is sitting 45 hours in a seat somewhere and passing an end-of-course assessment. Um, but maybe it's not. Maybe it's demonstrating that I could go to a workplace and I could practice the fact that I'm learning my accounting skills and I could do this spreadsheet for um this CPA off, those types of things. There are multiple ways. I think they need multiple ways to demonstrate that I am learning. I think they need permission to pursue their dreams. They they aren't all going to choose to do four years of language and four years of math and four years of science. Some will, because that's their love, that's their passion, that's their dream. And hopefully they're heading down a pathway where they'll um apply to one of our four universities, graduate with an engineering degree, and stay here in Idaho, serving in in one of our great companies. Um but but maybe that's something different. Maybe I love food and I I love understanding the health concepts related to food, and I love presenting food in a way, and and we need the service industry, and we we all love going to lovely restaurants and and being awed by the food that's presented there. Um, we need plumbing, we need electricians. When my air conditioning goes out, I want somebody who can interact with me, help understand, troubleshoot that program. They need permission to pursue um their hopes and dreams and what it is that they think um would fulfill them and at the same time provide a livable wage for the family that they're hoping, whatever that family looks like. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

It's so interesting as you're talking. And I I I look back on how I did education and and the requirements and how things were done in the 80s. Um dare I, dare I say. Uh, and I think about the way that I did school was that there was information presented that I needed to memorize and I needed to regurgitate. And I was really good at that. I was incredibly good at that. I I was a I was a good student. As I looked back on it, there are things now that I am relearning and truly learning because I'm internalizing it and I'm and I'm and I'm using it as opposed to just memorizing and regurgitating. Right.

SPEAKER_02 37:40

Applying it. You're applying it.

SPEAKER_00 37:41

Applying it because it now matters. And it's also a lot more joyful. Learning right now for me is very joyful because I don't really learn anything unless I'm going to be applying it. Like that that's where I go after things. It's like, how can I apply this to my life? How can I make my life better? Or, you know, just can I use this tomorrow? Does this make sense? Yes, exactly. Exactly. So I do like how our system has shifted to be more practical, frankly. And and those of us who are really great at mm memorizing, well, you know, I probably should have gone into acting. I could memorize all those script scripts and tall. That's fantastic. And you know what, to be honest with you, I probably would have loved that. Um, but you you mentioned that they, you know, let our students follow their dreams. I think that's huge. And I think it's really hard as adults not to kind of rat hole our kids and and other people in our lives into what we think they should be doing in order so that them to earn a living and you know, all the things that we we kind of should all over them about. Um yeah, it's a it's just a different way of framing things, I think.

SPEAKER_02 38:42

Right. And and I and it's harder, right? It's much easier to grade a multiple choice test and say, oh, I think that you've learned this. Um but it's it's more difficult to shape a performance-based assessment that says you've taken all of this information that we now expect you to access in a number of ways, right? Do I have to have it memorized? It's it's here. You've accessed that information and now it's about applying. And so making a judgment on how they've applied it and whether or not they've applied it in an appropriate way is a much more messy thing to do, a much more abstract thing to do, but probably a much more powerful assessment of what a student knows and is capable of doing versus, yeah, they got that multiple chest. Yeah, you know, that test they got. Um they get a sticker. They get a sticker. And it gives them the ability to think along the way. When a teacher walks in and says, this is what you're gonna do, this is how you're gonna do it, here's the format in which you're gonna do it, and it's gonna be four-page, da-da-da-da-da. It limits a student's ability to say, that's good information. How could I show you? How could I demonstrate to you that I know this? There are multiple ways to do that. And that in itself is a learning process for a student.

SPEAKER_00 40:01

Absolutely. And again, as a lifelong learner, I I there are parts of me that I'm like, boy, I could just go back in time. But even the fact that I went through that, I learned some stuff, you know? And I and I have some self-awareness about it now that um because even to this day, I can I can gravitate towards that. Well, I can, you know, I can quickly get all this and you know, memorize it and get it on. But that's, you know, that's not it, that's not my, it's not gonna reach my end goal. So yeah, so it's all all a learning process. It's yeah fascinating. So can we switch gears and talk about you? Sure. Um, so I'm I'm just wondering, is it you so you've served as a teacher, a principal, an assistant superintendent, a university dean, um, a superintendent, um, and now CEO. That's quite a career. Keep a job. That is not what I see here. I see a trajectory where you have continued to um, I obviously you're a continuous learner. That's that's something that matters to you. So is if you look back on your career, is there anything that that jumps out at you as surprising you as far as your your career and and or maybe life in general?

SPEAKER_02 41:16

Yeah, um if I think about this, maybe this position surprises me. Is this in this position, it really is um a business-based position. And and I think I always approach the superintendency and um even when I was assistant superintendent as a business, um, as far as we're responsible to uh steward the resources that we have. Um we have an important output. Um they're not widgets, they're all individuals and and they all have um hopes and dreams. Um but most people don't look at education and say, oh, that's a business. So I I think this this surprises me a little bit. And yet the skills that I developed as a leader growing in the education system, I think serve me well here because it's about bringing people together to think about creative solutions that impact an amazing group of people called our children, all 300,000 of them in the state of Idaho. And so where it surprises me that I'm on the true business side of things now, um the the purpose, the outcome, the focus remains the students in Idaho. Um as I look through my career, it started in a classroom, and I was responsible for 25 or sometimes 36, depending on how the numbers fell, and then a school, and then a district. And really at that point, it's like it's more than just a district. We have responsibility across this state that every student has an opportunity to learn in a significant quality type of environment. So um that I think has always been the root of my focus. I also think about access. Your children, my children, um probably regardless of the school that they were enrolled in, might succeed because we're gonna make sure that they succeed. But not all parents have the ability to pool their resources in that way. And so it's about every student gets that opportunity to access that. So what do we need in order to make sure that some of those barriers that some of our students come with that we can remove them, at least while they're at school, so they can access that and grow those skills. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:52

What surprises me the most about you, what did surprise me, now I know you, but what surprised me most about you, uh, because I You know, I did a little research on you before I joined in. I kind of wanted to know what I was getting involved with. And I am, I am surprised at how approachable and how human you are. How I mean, this you're juggling a lot and you are smart. You are a very smart woman. You're well spoken. You know what you're you know what you're doing when you speak about something, you know what you're saying, and yet you're incredibly approachable. And I think that balancing that sometimes can be very difficult for people, but you seem to have that lovely package. I think it comes from the passion that you have for the end result with all of this. I think that that's where it must come from because um it requires you to be kind and to be approachable, but you just do it so effortlessly. It appears.

SPEAKER_02 44:46

I'm sure it's not effortless at all, but it appears that way. It's very kind. I also think it comes from the fact that the resources we need, the knowledge that we need is never enough until we invite other people in. And that synergy, that synergy of doing it together, um increases the amount of knowledge that we have together. It um increases the number of choices we have in order to pursue to get to the end. And then it has additional eyes. So I've always enjoyed bringing people to the table, knowing that I don't, I don't have all of those solutions. I'm not the smartest person in the room necessarily. So how do we how do we bring other people to the table where those skills are represented there? Because you are right, in the end, the benefactors are our students. Um, and they are they are worth every effort that we need to put together in order to bring the right coalition of people together in order to make that end happen.

SPEAKER_00 45:55

So I'm just gonna like show people behind the curtain for a half a second because when I I first joined um because I was passionate about the situation and and and what you were doing, and and so I I was all in. And then I went to the first meeting where there were quite a lot of people there, and I looked around the room, and you have uh and I realize not just you, it's a group, a group of people who have done this, but you the the people who come together are powerhouses in the state of Idaho, and some of them in the in the in the country, business people who have done incredible things, um, names that are everyday names in Idaho that feel like you couldn't you couldn't approach them because they're up on some sort of pedestal. And yet all these wonderful people come together in the name of education, and it isn't an ego fest.

SPEAKER_01 46:44

No.

SPEAKER_00 46:45

It is the it's the most surprising thing that I've ever experienced because I I have access to these beautiful, wonderful thinkers, and they're just normal people.

SPEAKER_02 46:55

I guess normal people with a deep abiding love for this state, its people, and its children. And we are so blessed in this state. I am so blessed as a part of this organization to get to benefit from that wisdom. And you're right, they're they're genuinely deeply concerned that we continue to create an education system in the state of Idaho that, yes, benefits industry and business, but benefits our families, benefits our communities, impacts the economy in the end. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:33

Did you always know that you were going to be involved with education? Was this something that you knew as a child?

SPEAKER_02 47:38

My brothers would tell you, I have three of them, that in the basement of our house we had a lovely little chalkboard and we did math problems daily. And I walked them through and I'm sure I taught them everything they knew about their math. So it seems like, yes. Um I and math was the content area that I loved. I diverted for a while and studied engineering. And um, as I was in um my junior year, right? This is when an apprenticeship really would have helped me. My junior year, I'm like, yeah, now now I'm seeing what what I would be doing. And it didn't, it didn't feel aligned. And so I quickly switched to education. Um, but I can see early signs early on that that was something that brought me joy and I love to do. And uh so I want to say, yes, sort of. I diverted for a while and then returned.

SPEAKER_00 48:40

You you are a very successful person. I'm I'm curious if you're willing to share with us, is there a failure that took place in sometime in your lifetime that that taught you something that you're grateful for, maybe?

SPEAKER_02 48:52

Yeah, I um I wish I could tell you early on that that I viewed failures as an opportunity to learn. I I took failures very personally. Me too, me too. It's taken me a long time to understand, okay, that didn't work. Let's regroup and come back. I I think one of the things that first comes to my mind when you say that um is um I care for people. Um I I would love to think that uh as we bring them together, that they would feel fulfilled, um, pleased. I I'm not, I don't think I'm a people pleaser, but that's important to me. And so I think recognizing that there wasn't a way I could do that in every position I had. I couldn't help everybody get to the same place that I wanted them to get. I I could I could provide the opportunity, I could be the encourager. So I mean, I think one of those failures was um not realizing that early enough. I guess I've I felt like I failed in in places and times and um took that not as a learning tool. It took me a while to say, I we may not come to the same place, but I still care for you and respect you as an individual and and and learning that skill and being okay that we are going to end in a different place just because of our deeply held beliefs or the pathways or the experiences that we come with. It took me quite a while, I think, to learn that and to be okay with that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:34

That's a great answer. All right. I have one last question for you, and I uh and I'm I'm very curious about how you're going to answer it. So 20 years from now, what do you hope that Idaho gets right in this moment?

SPEAKER_02 50:52

I think I hope Idaho gets the value of investing in its children right, regardless of what's happening on the national stage. I think I think that I would love for Idaho to come together and say, um, we know enough to educate the children who are here. Um, we know enough that parents will choose multiple pathways, and that's okay. Um, but we also need to know enough that it's important that all of those pathways are are good pathways, result in in opportunities for students um to matriculate into whatever it is they want to enter after high school. Um sometimes it's easy to look at the national narrative and say, oh, education is really in trouble in the inner city of Detroit. But what's happening here? Let's value what's here. Let's change some of the negative narrative that we're hearing by showing up in our schools and actually looking to see the amazing things that are happening in our schools. And let's tell those stories. Let's let's create the Idaho narrative which says here in Idaho, kids learn. Here in Idaho, we value um the choices that parents make in order to find those pathways um to learn. Here in Idaho, um we don't have one way for all kids to find whatever comes after high school. We've got and we're going to invest in those multiple pathways. And we're going to invest in making sure that all students, regardless of that zip code, rural, suburban, urban, regardless of that, have those opportunities so that they could be successful in school, in work, and ultimately in life.

SPEAKER_00 52:59

Great answer. I knew it was going to be. How will people get a hold of you if they want to, or if they want to learn more about IBE? How do they do that?

SPEAKER_02 53:07

So our new brand new webpage should be up and running the first of November. But until then, um it's P as and Paula and then Keller Er, K-E-L-L-E-R-E-R at Idaho B E dot org. Um we do have a webpage. You can find it. There's a place to submit questions or to contact. So it is active, but the the prettier vision version, the more accessible version will be out in November. But um happy to answer questions or to follow up with individuals that have some thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 53:42

Wonderful. Dr. Paula Kellerer, thank you for being here today. And thank you, really thank you on the on the on behalf of the state of Idaho for all the things you're doing for our kids, for the future of our state, and just for being a great human. Thank you. It's been a pleasure. Thanks for inviting me, Callie. You're welcome. Hey, thanks for watching. If you or someone you know has a story to share, we'd love to hear from you. Reach out, share your story, and you could be featured on an upcoming episode. And remember, once your story gets shared, it will no longer be one that nobody knows.