SPEAKER_00 0:00

Everyone has a story, a moment, a lesson, or a piece of their life most people may never hear. Hi, I'm Callie Zamzo, and this is Nobody Knows. Welcome to Nobody Knows. I'm your host, Callie Zamzo. And today we're going to be talking about Meridian, Idaho. And I know that we recently had the CEO of the Meridian Chamber on and dug in a little bit there and got some wonderful information. Today, we've asked the mayor to come and join us. And specifically, we want to talk about what it actually takes to run this a city like Meridian that has been growing and continues to grow and is continues to be a really great place and a place that people want to live. And so I'm very excited to introduce Mayor Robert Simmonson. Thank you for being here in the studio with us.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

I'm happy to be here and excited to have a conversation today.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Yeah, I think it's going to be really good. I um you and I were at an AI symposium, I'm going to call it yesterday. And I just the fact that you were at that makes me impressed. I mean, you you do have done a lot of things for the city, but you continue, you seem to be a continuous learner. And I was very excited to see you there and to see that you were, you're, you know, just just learning. You're you're always learning and trying to become better. Is that kind of just who you are? Is that always been part of who you are?

SPEAKER_01 1:20

I I I think showing up is part of who I am. It's being present because you know, the conversations don't happen in your office, you know, the around a desk. They they happen out in the community. And it's showing up where you can to have those conversations with the community. And yesterday's topic, um, AI, it is the topic de jure.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

You know, and so yeah, if you're not trying to understand and learn from what others are saying and then trying to figure out where's your organization at and how will it fit in the future, then uh I think, you know, I'm not gonna blame you for that, but that's not me.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Yeah. Yeah, it's clearly not you. All right. So let's just uh let's jump in here and and talk about Meridian. Um there are a lot of people that call it home, uh, and it's and it continues to, it's growing.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

About 155,000 people, yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

And and growing. I mean, it's it's amazing. What what do you think that the city has done intentionally right?

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Uh I think intentionally is we focus on the services we provide. And and that's key. You know, you you know, with any business organization, you can control what you can control. And we put our focus on the things that we provide to the community, our police, our fire, our parks, uh our water, our sewer, um, you know, then our community development processes. Those are the things that we control. And, you know, people started building Meridian long before I became mayor. And those people made some very tough decisions at some point in time along the way. Say the first time they adopted impact fees, you know, and the mantra that growth would pay for growth. And they did that early on in Meridian. So we've been able to grow using, you know, dollars from growth to provide wonderful parks that people love, build police facilities, fire stations as necessary. And those are the things that I think we're doing right is we're providing that base level infrastructure that's necessary for a city to be a community and have the services as residents expect, at least the ones that we're responsible for.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

Yeah. Yeah. And and clearly you have done. I mean, I obviously I was at your state of the city address this year, and um, and you did a wonderful job of explaining that and helping us understand. I didn't realize there were so many things. I mean, a lot, many, many moving parts as far as that was concerned. Um, what do you think that people are are looking for when they choose to move to Meridian?

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Uh I I think it starts with the you know, place where they can raise their family. That that's that's what's kind of been the basis of Meridian. And Mayor Tammy always used to talk about, you know, she blamed the growth of Meridian on the West Data School District because people wanted a place for their kids to have educational choice and opportunities. And West Data was has long been the leader uh in the area and Idaho for the education that they provide. So I think that's where it begins. And that's reflective in, you know, we want to be the premier community, live, work, and raise a family. And so I think that was the initial driver that people look for. Where's where's where's the safety? You know, where they want their their kids to be safe, you know, where where are the job growth opportunities? You know, where's the great quality of life opportunities? And where's the education that they can get for their kids? I think that's what our success was built on. It's obviously transitioned over the years. I mean, our size of household and our age has gotten household has gotten smaller and our ages have gotten larger because people that have moved here are staying here. Um, or grandparents are moving here to be closer to their grandkids. Um, so the community has been evolving over the last 20 years that I've been with the city through that process. But I I think at its core, it doesn't change, is even if you're a grandparent moving here, you want safety, you want quality of life, you want opportunity for your grandkids.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Uh so uh for you personally, because I've heard a lot of different people say why they think that meridian is so special. Why do you think Meridian is so special?

SPEAKER_01 5:33

I think Meridian is so special because of the people. You know, the the you go back to when Meridian was 10,000 people back in the 1990s. And yeah, you know, though those those people, uh, those families, generational families along the way, the the farming families that were there contributing to the ecos and ethos of the the city. And then the people that self-selected to move to Meridian. And you know, they all chose. And that's what one of the things I often talk about. You know, we talk about things on the large scale, like why do people choose to move to Idaho? Why do people choose to move to Meridian? Why do people choose to live in an HOA versus not live in an HOA? You know, people self-select to the type of environment that they want. And Meridian has long had a large faith community that has like really kind of produced a you know, certain amount of respect uh of law and uh willingness to help each other out. And from my perspective, that's what it's all about because it's about the the people that have chosen to move to Meridian to call it home, because I think that they adhere to those type of community characteristics, you know, by self-selecting to this, they they want to be able to live in a community that values those things to have people around them. And so that's what I attribute it to and why I think it's such a wonderful place.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

You know, you bring up the faith factor. And so can we touch on uh briefly, and I'm just thinking about other mayors who might be listening to this podcast who might be wanting to embrace faith and have that be more central. You have a prayer breakfast. I know you didn't start that in the beat, but you've definitely carried it on. Can you kind of help us understand how you're able to do that and not have it be controversial, I guess?

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Well, you know, I think the thing is like the city doesn't do that. The chamber is the one that's actually helping do that along with other groups. So they they use the mayor's name. Um the is it's almost like your event in name only.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

Uh by calling it that. But uh it obviously takes my participation for it to have that feel through that. And I think it starts with, you know, understanding that you are, you know, the the mayor of the community. You know, uh, I don't bring a singular faith viewpoint into the city operations. And you know, you have to understand that there are quite a few few diverse faith interests in Meridian, and you have to be open and willing to work with them all. And but faith, um, I right before I came here, I was having a meeting with a couple of faith leaders, and we were talking about these various things. Faith plays such a huge part of providing the services that unfortunately many residents have to rely upon, you know, whether it's food from the food bank, you know, whether it's volunteers uh to have beds built for children that need a place to sleep. You know, the the the connection between the faith community and our nonprofits is huge. And I think that if you are willing to embrace that, then they can be a force multiplier into providing services that we don't want our governments to be providing.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

Yeah. It's really wise.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

I I I'd like to think so, but I again I learned from the master, Mayor Tammy.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. She it's an amazing, amazing mayor. Easy for me to say. Say that three times very quickly. Um, okay, so I um I'm wondering if you this might be a little bit of a tricky question or a difficult question, I guess, if to think back, but could you think back? Um, and it could be before you or during your time, but two or three main things that have happened in Meridian that were key to having this tremendous growth be successful.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

Oh um You know, I I don't know that I could because it's been consistent. Yeah, you know, and consistency, I guess that would be And I I guess that could be consistency of leadership is probably one of the things that has allowed the city to continue to thrive through, you know, going on now three plus decades of that. And that's why it's it's hard, it's hard for me to go back. I wasn't here when the things started that really kind of uh push those conversations forward. But it goes back to the people that were here before us, obviously. And, you know, unfortunately, cities grow based upon sewer. And at one point in time, there's a big conversation about sewer, especially headed over towards the micro or towards the HP campus and who was gonna, was that gonna be in Boise or was that gonna be a Meridian? But you know, I I think that it just goes back to you know, when you have a government viewpoint that uh this is how we want to live in our community, and that that's really been maintained. I can only speak for the time I've been with the city the last 20 years, that that that brings a lot of um regulatory framework to our business community. So the business is the wanna move uh to Meridian. I think that that plays a factor in that. You know, our educational uh investment, the the community is continuing to get behind West Ada as they've had needs over the years, whether it's for bonds or levies.

SPEAKER_00 10:50

If somebody is watching from another state and they are seriously considering moving to Meridian, what are, again, two or three things that they should understand before they make that decision?

SPEAKER_01 11:05

That they understand. Um, I'll a couple of things I'd ask them to consider.

SPEAKER_02 11:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

If I can do that, is that you know, if you're looking at our community, you're looking at our community through a lens where we understand what's made us successful. And I think that that's an important thing is I'm not saying that the communities can't change and they shouldn't evolve, but understanding the the ways in which we've chosen to grow over the years has made us who we are. Absolutely. What we get involved in, what we don't get involved in, where we put our priorities, where we don't put our priorities. That has what has made Meridian over these years. Does it make us perfect in everyone's eyes? No, it does not. But does it make us attractive for people to want to move to us and live in our community? Absolutely. And those have been an intentional decisions over the years. So I'd ask people to understand that. Give us a chance, you know, if you're gonna move to the area, understand that there's uh a method to our processes and live here a little while before you maybe come and say, that's not what I want, um, or that's not how it should be done. Um that would that would be one thing that I would say. The second is, you know, get engaged in the community. You know, one of the things that I've often said, and I think the your family is the exception to the rule. Murray doesn't have what I call generational families in this in a lot of ways, you know, where it was so small and they they were there, but it's we are such a young community with new people. If you go back to 10,000 people, well, that means we've had 145,000 new people come to Merdi in the last 30 years where they don't, where you may only have one generation that's here. And, you know, so trying to get people to put together roots, to get engaged, to find a nonprofit to be part of, to find a cause that they want to help support financially. You know, typically you look at a lot of communities and those types of contributions come from those generational families, those that have been there for two, three, four generations, to say, yes, we need that. We need to go build that thing or do that activity. And, you know, when you are a young community without those generational families, you rely upon the new people to come and get involved and get engaged. And that's one of the things I would say is, you know, come and believe there's a method to our processes and two, get engaged to be part of what we have and continue to make it better.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

Okay, this is a little self-serving. But so as a generational family, is there something that we could do better to help engage these newcomers who are first gen to Meridian and that sort of thing? Is there something that we as a family that has been here for a while could do to that would be more helpful than what we're currently doing?

SPEAKER_01 13:51

Um, I don't know necessarily, other than say welcoming people and encouraging them to be part of the community and whatever that means. You know, I think that how how families that have been here, and and I will say this, I'm not gonna from a lot of the generational families that I speak to or that have been here, um, I think they will for the most part they're not opposed to the changes that they've seen in Meridian. Right. You know, no one like no one likes the road challenges that come with everything. It's true. See, a lot of people go back to and they remember what it was like back in the 90s and how far they had to drive to go get things and and and so they can appreciate the challenge or the changes, um, whether it's the jobs or the services um that have come to the area. Uh so helping people understand what it was like compared to what it what it is now and how how they feel about that, but also just encourage them to be part of and welcome to the community in a way that only they can do. Because again, I'm not a generational family. You know, I I like to think that uh, you know, my dad, he lived down off of uh right next to Eagle Island State Park off of Linder. So tech you know, down there in the Eagle area, but he banked at Farmers and Merchants and he worked at the Albertsons right there on Cherry Lane uh during the summer. He was a school teacher over in Boise. So I I have a little bit of family history into Meridian, but not generational roots for the community. So I I look to people like you to help tell people this is what Meridian was like for the last 50, 75 years and how it's changed and evolving and what that means.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

Yeah. I I have I do have to say, I think on behalf of the family, we do like the fact that um Meridian still feels very similar to how it did back then. It is massively bigger than it was when, you know, I remember as a very, very little girl, you know, throwing candy out at one of the parades, probably probably the dairy days parade. And um I mean, obviously fewer people out, you know, when you go to it now, it's packed. There's lots and lots of people. So, but but we still have the dairy days parade. We still do those kind of things. And I think sometimes those things go by the wayside when you get bigger and bigger. So, you know, on behalf of the family, we appreciate the fact that things, some things are staying the same, which is kind of nice.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

And we we want to we want to embrace those, the heritage of the community. You don't you don't want to lose that.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Right. Yeah, absolutely. So as as things grow, is there a common thing that tends to like a pressure that that starts first, like that you have to address as with growth? Does does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Yeah, it it it always starts with the roads. I mean, that's that's where it comes down to is that's where people feel it the most, uh direct, you know, especially you it wasn't that long ago that four-way stops were the common uh way, the common intersection control system and meridian. You know, and I don't know that we have too many of those left. You know, they've either gone to maybe a a light, a temporary signal or a roundabout. So they've they've gradually gone away. But those that transportation has always been the number one thing. The schools used to be right up there as well. You know, we we used to hear a lot about the the challenges of schools. And you know, we're hearing about it from the current residents, not the future residents' perspective on those things. Um and that has traditionally that's that's kind of gone away because really over the last you know several years, West Data has stayed flat in their enrollment um as more and more people are using charter or homeschooling options, online options. And so the schools have become less of a focus from a lot of the people we hear from. I'm I'm not gonna say that they're gone, but those are kind of the two main things. Um, on occasion, uh, some of our service providers will speak up about a challenge, you know, whether it's the fire department and their ability to really get to an area based upon our infrastructure. But I like to think we've done a pretty good job of keeping our infrastructure uh, meaning the fire stations as an example or the water sewer, uh being getting out to those areas, the those things that we can be a part of. Parks typically come a little bit afterwards. Um, but we have such great regional parks. People feel like they've got a park to go to. But if you want something a little closer to your home, that may take a little bit longer through the development process.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Okay. What um I I I I wonder kind of about the actual process of making change. And I'm curious if there's a a particular part of planning that is harder to scale quickly. I mean, that's some things you can pivot pretty quickly and do. I mean, relatively speaking, some things are just that they're you can't do very quickly. Is there is there something in particular or a few things that are more difficult to scale quickly?

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Well, changing is hard quickly because and this is where as much as uh the rest of my city departments would not like to hear this, growth is about sewer first and foremost. And sewer requires planning. And you you look at the plan and you say, here's how much here's what we think is gonna be built in this area, here's the density, here's the commercial infrastructure that's gonna go in. And then you have to make those plans, and then you start building the lines from the plant to a location, and you can't really modify your development pattern too much, because if it changes the amount of sewer that's gonna be utilized, then you've messed up the entire planning for that area. So, you know, we do hear about people saying, well, it was gonna be this, it was gonna be that. So there's a there's a little bit of change that can happen, but you can't do a wholesale change. Like if all of a sudden in South Meridian, which is currently planned for low density residential, all of a sudden someone, I want, I want high density residential all throughout that area. That'd be a real problem, you know, because that would require some significant uh changes to our sewer infrastructure at, you know, maybe a hundred million dollars to do something like that to go rip out the old one and put a new one in, depending upon how long and how far you got to go. So those type of things are you you can't really do as much as maybe a developer would want. Um, and so it's important that you have the right planning in place so that you can uh achieve the outcome that you thought through that process.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

That that's interesting. I mean, I don't seem strange, but I don't even I didn't think about that. And the fact that there's catch 22 is that you probably want to plan that pretty far in advance, but if you plan it too far in advance, then the use of that you can't you know put in all this infrastructure that then doesn't fit what the end use is gonna be. So that's a that's tricky.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

And it goes the other way too, where if we if we try to if people don't want it to be as dense as an example, and so we don't get the flow that was planned, well that messes up the sewer too. Really? Oh yeah. Yeah, because you know the sewers run on a on a on a certain amount of flow and you need that flow to push everything through the sewer system. So it it it's it's like I say, there's a there's a balance there between where you need to be for it to work properly, where you don't over you're not over capacity and you're not under the ability for it to work, then the only ways it works is like you have to uh pump water out of the ground to pump it through it to make it flow at an appropriate rate, which is not a wise use either. It's costly and and other things and somewhat wasteful.

SPEAKER_00 21:36

So I I didn't think we were gonna be talking about sewer a whole bunch, but I'm I'm really surprised at how central it is to to growth. I shouldn't be surprised.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

It's it's the key component to uh how and where you grow and when you can grow there.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

So how do you keep how do you keep ahead of things? Has so that so that you don't get behind you know, like you you have to plan pretty far in advance.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

It it's it's a relationship with those that own property to find out what they want to do with their property. You know, are they wanting to s still be farming? Are they gonna sell? If they sell, who are they selling to? And then you know, when you already have a plan designation, is is that what's gonna be built to? And working with people on those. So it's it's a it's a constant communication with the community on the edges of where development is gonna occur. And sometimes that is working with the developers who we're gonna put in the infrastructure along the way. Sometimes it's us putting the infrastructure. Um, and sometimes it's going, you got to go to the end and work your way back versus taking it from the front and going slowly towards the end, just based upon where the gravity is going, what direction. That's why we've we're putting in a lift station um uh right now. And we had to go all the way over to the county line, even though there's no development over there, because that's the way the gravity's got to flow. So you got to go put in so the development can happen two miles away, so it can go one direction and then be pumped back the other way. And so all those things just require constant uh discussion with the people that are gonna be doing the development so that you put in stuff that makes sense at the right time based upon what they want to do, their access, their plans, and well, what's in our planning processes as well. Makes sense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Um, I this is and my family may not be happy with me asking this question, but I'm literally I'm very curious about it. So we talk about legacy um landowner owners from and our family is definitely one of them. And we don't we own property that we aren't planning on doing anything with for quite some time. We don't literally don't know what we're gonna do. And there isn't any, there's no need or something that where we really want to do anything with it yet. I guess the first question is honestly, how crazy do we make you with that? But this this owning a piece of land and saying, eh, you know, and you're and and it's in maybe in the middle of something, you know, where you're like, we would really like to do something. I guess how a number one, how crazy does it make you? And number two, because you have finest talking with legacy land owners to help them relinquish the land or help you develop it or whatever. How does that process look?

SPEAKER_01 24:21

Well, A, how crazy? It doesn't make us crazy.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

I I mean that and that's the that's the reality is like uh best example is we have a big field at the corner of Fairview and Eagle. Yes. You do. It's not ours. It's it's not it's not yours. Um, but but we know when the if and when they ever want to develop it, we'll have those conversations. But we're we're not out there actively trying to encourage them to move forward on anything with that property. And we we want to do things at the right time when people are ready to do it themselves. You know, um, that's the thing that I think it's one of the those things that you know, I hear from the community about growth. And they think that we're just trying to grow, grow, grow. We're we're trying to chase after tax revenue. No, people come to us more than we come to them about what they want to do with their property. And everybody's entitled to ask to have something to do with their property, whether it's what's in our plan or if they want to try to adjust the plan. You know, everyone's entitled to ask for something. And so are there times where we've had to talk to people that maybe had a piece of property that we would like to see something done with? Yes, but it's probably because it was in the context of something that we were doing. You know, maybe we're trying to put a park in that area and we were trying to, you know, have conversations with them or if our public works or our fire station needs to go in an area. Those are the conversations that, you know, where we're maybe doing a little bit more outreach about what's going on. Otherwise, we leave it to those uh out there in the development community to have the conversations about what should be done, when should be done. But no, I mean, we've got a lot of properties that are still in the county. They've not annexed into the city. We're not out there trying to force to annex them. We're not trying to push them out. But we are making plans for their property in the context of like if and when it redevelops, this is what's important for the city's long-term health and um yeah, you know, might be a road that needs to go through the property. You know, it's things like that, more so than, you know, hey, when are you gonna move that thing type stuff? Um, you know, that's that's really not where we where we see it. But I I it's hard for people to see you planning on their property.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

But you you have to put a vision for for what we want to see when the time comes. And that can sometimes be complex for legacy property owners uh to see. Like, well, I never envisioned a road being here. I know. And and and and that's okay. Yeah um, but there will need to be a road there if and when you ever decide that you don't want to live here any longer, you want to sell your property and somebody else is gonna develop it, they need to understand we're gonna want a road that goes through that property.

SPEAKER_00 27:20

Right. So interesting. I I'm you don't have to tell me what the project is, but how far, like what's the furthest thing out in the future that you are currently not and again, you don't have to tell me what it is, but how far out are you currently planning on your furthest out thing?

SPEAKER_01 27:36

Um Well, so part of it says things that we don't control, right? I think this is the best example I can give give to you. There's been a piece of property that's been identified as a city of Meridian Park since I've been working with the city for 20 years.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

At McDermott and Cherry. That's where that's where they have the Lions Rodeo. Yeah. That will eventually be a city park. That's been planned to be a city park for 20 years because we kept thinking the sewer's gonna get to that location. Because it's not that far out from the city, you know, the city's been near at the same location on the west side for about 20 years. And just the growth and development hasn't pushed towards that park. So you may only think it's a three-year project, but it could be a 30-year project that you just don't know. So we do have those projects that are out there, um, primarily in parks, that we see as these will be things that will eventually come into the city. But you know, sometimes they happen really fast and sometimes they they take forever. So the planning is relative uh to the uh execution. You know, we we plan personally in terms of like what we are going to build, you know, within five-year increments for the most part.

SPEAKER_02 28:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

You know, we may know we're gonna do a park there, but when we actually build it. Now, in our conversations with the community and what they want to do on their property and those type of things, I mean, a lot of those typically when when you're having those conversations, they're typically within a five-year window of when people really have got to that mindset of like, here's something that I want to do where we want to see or we want to go. Otherwise, you know, because you don't know what's gonna happen in the meantime. So people aren't typically push looking so far down the future on things. But five years is what I would say is our our general planning window of things that we're looking at.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

That makes sense. Especially when you bring up the sewer part. Now that I understand that, I'm like, oh, yeah, that that's uh totally makes sense. Um is there um is there something that you do or that that your office does that looks really easy on the outside, but is actually tremendously difficult? Or 107 things?

SPEAKER_01 30:02

Yeah, you know, I think it's hard. I've I've been in the office between mayor and working for the previous mayor for 20 years. And you know, a lot of ways to meet things are routine. You know, when you when you do them. Um I can tell you the very first time we did a Save the City, that was difficult. You know, going through and you know, do gathering the information, doing the annual report, finding the people from the community, doing the ticket sales, all those things took a lot of people's time and attention for a one or two hour event. Yeah. Um, now to me, they seem routine. But if I were to ask my team, they would probably say it's not routine. You know, but I think that's what you get when you have continuity is you you you have people that understand what they're doing and how they're doing it and why they're doing it. And that allows things that would be very difficult for somebody else who's never done them, right? To to go and take those steps compared to for us, they they can be handled fairly easily now. But I could I'd have to bring in a couple members of the team to maybe say, no, no, no, Mayor. There's here here's our view on what what that looks like and happens and and means. But you know, it everything is a balance in terms of like every city council meeting on Tuesday, you know, and you got presentations and stuff. And uh I know our teams work really hard on those things to to come and they they make them look easy. Yeah. But it was a lot of work behind the scenes to make it happen.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

Can we talk about the state of the city really quickly? We can. Um, I I don't know uh if you heard Karen Manthy's uh podcast. If not, you might want to listen because we had a whole section on you.

SPEAKER_02 31:53

Oh, uh.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

Um good, good. Like because um because she helped you with your speech or help has helped you.

SPEAKER_02 31:58

Yes, she has.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

Um your the this last one was phenomenal. Really, really phenomenal. Um and I think part of what I liked about it was that you you said some tough stuff along with like all the great things are happening. You said some difficult things too. And it it was all very palatable. But you you have you have done something here with your speaking and you've you've gotten very good at it. And and so it's just yes, you're welcome. Um, but is there was there a process to all of that? Like what what was that process to get if somebody was thinking about, you know, they want to get become a better speaker, be able to do the the types of things that you're currently doing that look so easy now. Um, what would you what would you tell them?

SPEAKER_01 32:42

Listen to others. And that that's what it begins with. I mean, I I would tell anybody, like, we'll talk to Karenhe. Yeah. But it's but it's not just it's not just Karen. And I think, you know, you you also had Sean on. You know, I think other people have pushed uh me in various ways. Um, Sean and his team were the ones, you know, because the city used to do the say the city. We we we produced it, we did all aspects of it. Uh when I became mayor, I I asked the chamber if they want to take that on. Um, you know, A to help them financially, because the city would receive a lot of money from sponsors. And I'd say this could be better be put back into our business community because it's coming from our business community. But through that, Sean also had a had his own vision for elevation of the event. And and and you know, that can be everything from getting rid of teleprompter to having com using confidence monitors down below. Um, your your your stage, your presence, your movements instead of being behind a podium. I think all those things, um, along with you know working with Karen on you know being able to talk about things that uh in a way that will strike people's attention, I think has helped. And and then yeah, I think the more you do it yourself, the the the better you get at maybe identifying what you want to say and how you want to say it. And you know, e even my own state of the cities can get formulaic. You know, I always have a time where I talk about the legislature because the legislature keeps giving me stuff to talk about. Yes, yes, they do, and its impact on our local communities. Um, but we've also had some very meaty, weighty things. And uh I intentionally moved the state of the city to do it more the way the governor does. The governor does to stay the state right at the start of the legislative session. We used to do our stay of the city in February, and I thought, well, if a new mayor comes in, how fair is it for them to give their stay of the city speech a month on the job? And I felt like it was better to do it um in June, right after right before uh we head into our budget process. And it allows us to tie this community engagement speech in with where we're really focusing the community's resources. So it ties the conversation, in my opinion, very nicely to be able to talk about the the meaty things that are, I think, important for the community here to also tie it into what's going on in the community generally, where you can balance the two. So it always, you know, it's at the end of the legislative session. So you talk about what they did. It's with the start of our budget season, so you can talk about our budget. And then you get an opportunity to brag on your employees or brag on the community about what else is going on, or have another tough conversation if you need to bring it up about a challenge that we're doing. So I'd like to think it's a combination of, you know, content that you create by the time that you actually have the conversation, as well as listening to those around me about how to do a better presentation and learning from Karen about just generally how to be a better speaker.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

Yeah. I do really appreciate the fact that you are uh you're very gracious. You you give credit where credit is due. Um, you're you're first person to to name off the team people that that actually did the work. And I really like that about you. I and I think your team must really enjoy working for you because they know that, you know, they're you're gonna acknowledge the work that they're putting in. So that's huge.

SPEAKER_01 36:15

I try. I do not do a good enough job. I know that with the, you know, I I I'm, you know, when you go to your color styles, you know, I I am brown as brown can be. You throw in a little bit of green on the side. I don't have much blue or red in me. So I need those other people to really help me uh remember to do the the thanks and the acknowledgement and the recognition because I know that's important to a lot of people. It's not important to me. Yeah, did do I like it? Yes. Do I expect it? No. You know, I don't expect people to give me accolades for what I say, what I do, or how I do it. But I know it's for some, they really need that and value that. And I have to really push myself to try to do it more.

SPEAKER_00 36:51

Well, that's honest of you. I think uh uh these things that we've figured out work. Um, yeah, we that's part of structuring. It's part of good leadership. The things that maybe we're not so good at, we put we get first of all, we get people in place that help us do better. Absolutely which is which is huge. Um so what does this seems like a basic question, but I'm curious about like what's the hardest thing about being mayor for you anyway? Um I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

I mean, the my personality is one where I I don't get high and I don't get low. I don't carry a lot of stress. Um but are there hard days? Yes, there are hard days. Is it's tough uh sometimes not spend enough time with my wife and my kids, even though my youngest is now 15 and I don't even know how much time he wants to spend with me. I mean, though those can be some some challenging times just from, you know, but when you've done that your whole career, because it's not just as mayor, it was you know, working for the previous mayor as chief of staff and being present and working in Congress for 10 years, where you're working late, and and that's kind of been my career where the family or the evenings just get sucked into the job as as part of it. But you know, ultimately, um the the I think it's just those hard days, you know. Sometimes when you disappoint people, and you know you do, yeah, for whatever reason. And you know, I that that probably carries with me a little bit more um than than the other things, but uh I I view this is a job, first and foremost. Politics in my view viewpoint is a job as well. I I so I don't take politics personally. I I take that as a means to an end to achieve, you know, whatever you're trying to achieve. And I know I'm very unique in probably my personality and my viewpoint on those two issues where I can handle the what might be stress or other challenges people might see in the job uh in a different way.

SPEAKER_00 39:01

You know, it's interesting. That's just not a comparison by any stretch, but I I do the same thing with this podcast because um I'm there's something I'm trying to do here. And I know that there are people who are going to disagree with me or just not like me or whatever. And I I don't have your personality. My I so I so what I've had to do is really kind of just like block it out. I just I because otherwise I I feel every single insult and I want to fix every little thing. And um, I think it's I think your personality is probably lends itself better to to that sort of public scrutiny. Uh, you handle it very well and you always seem very it doesn't surprise me that you don't have the super highs and the super lows. You do seem to always be very steady, which by the way, for the people who are following you is delightful because when you have a leader that stays steady, it steadies everybody, like it or not. It just does. So it's a I I commend you on that. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 40:01

And it doesn't mean I don't have my moments, but they're few and far in between. And you know, I can take I can take very bad news without uh a lot of frustration uh in the moment. Doesn't mean I I we won't address it in in a way that needs to be addressed on things, but part of it, and I and and um like I don't read Facebook comments. And I rarely like I I will get on Facebook and I will scroll through some things just to you know maybe get a f a flavor for what people are saying or doing, but I won't read comments and I I I won't engage on Facebook. I don't use my personal Facebook really for anything to do with with work, maybe a little bit of campaign stuff, but it's it's I don't do it for work and um I j I just don't find the I know in the modern age, and you can go see, you can look at other political campaigns or people around the country and how much they use TikTok or all these other mediums, and that's how they engage. I know I'm missing out on some conversations through that, but I do rely upon others around me to provide me feedback and insight on conversations if necessary, um, to know where I might need to engage or what I might need to focus on in a blog or um any other comments that I make publicly on issues.

SPEAKER_00 41:23

I think that's really wise. I think that's a I hope that there are young people listening to this today, because I think there is some wisdom in that. Sometimes it's hard to not be a part of all of that and engage with all of that. I in in in some instances it's it's uh it and it it certainly helps you focus down on what's important to not have a bunch of moving parts that you can't control that you're engaging with. Um and and yeah, and then if you do engage, hey, things can get really crazy really fast.

SPEAKER_01 41:56

So they can. They can.

SPEAKER_00 41:58

Yeah. So I think I think that's uh that's a bit of wisdom for it works for me, but it wouldn't work for everybody. That's true. That's true. That's fair.

unknown 42:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:07

Um, so have you ever lost sleep over a decision?

SPEAKER_01 42:14

Uh I think I probably not over decision. I I think I've I've lost sleep over thinking about things coming up. Uh yeah, I think that that's probably the better way. But once once a decision or a direction uh has occurred, I I generally can move on or sleep fine.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:36

But you know, but if if you go back to the very beginning of COVID, where we're all learning about what to do and what not to do, and you're having conversations with uh members of the community about things. And if there's anything that you're contemplating doing, you know, there there were those were definitely times where you're, you know, can't go to sleep because your mind's racing, you know, on on elements. But you know, and I'm not gonna say don't ever think about did I make the right decision? You know, that I think we all look at that and say, Did I go the right way? Should I go on right instead of left on on that topic? But generally don't won't keep me up at night.

SPEAKER_00 43:17

Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting to think about that. Okay, so I want to shift gears a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 43:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 43:25

I understand that you don't do a lot of talking about yourself. So health this section is not not the part that you're like, and no, and no, and no. Uh those are not heavy-hitting questions by any by any stretch. I'm just curious about you. Um, did you, when you go back to being a little boy, were you dreaming of being a mayor back then?

SPEAKER_01 43:44

No. No, that uh being a mayor was not even in my thought process until Mayor Tammy approached me with the idea. Interesting. No. It was I I grew up um and I even went to college. My dad was a math teacher. South junior high. My intention was to go to college and become a math teacher just like my dad, because uh A, I thought I was good at math. Um, and B, it's seemed like, yeah, I that that works good. And then I got to college and I realized A, I'm not very good at math because you really have to, you know, I understood concepts, but learning new concepts was not great when I got into calculus and beyond. Um, and then B, I didn't really like being around kids in the schools. And so being a teacher was not really uh the thing that made sense. But I had a and I and I'm I'm gonna wait till my college's 30-year reunion as soon as we're done here today. Um, but it was uh one of my fraternity brothers who at the times uh said, you know, what do you want to do? And this was I was a sophomore in college. And I said, I don't know. He said, Well, I think you'd be good in student government. So he ran ran me for student government, and I, you know, it was the the comp troler for that first year and student body president the next year. And I realized I had a knack for it. But then it was Mayor Tammy um who approached me with the concept of, you know, running for mayor uh at the end of her fourth term. And I I was looking at another opportunity, you know. I I had been with her for 13 years and I kind of had my tenure itch and like what's next. Um, and uh I'd run for public office before, I'd run for the state legislature and was not successful. And really, it was the her having a confidence in me to continue working on the things that we had been working on together for 13 years, and me running a felt campaign once that said, I think I can do better and applying those principles and knew that I wanted a new challenge. And that even though I was only going to move about 30 feet in terms of office, if I was successful, I understood the difference between job of chief of staff and role of mayor, but I knew it would be a a different type of challenge that I was willing to uh undertake. And so it was kind of an evolution into that stage.

SPEAKER_00 46:09

Wow. I I've I've been curious about that, that whole process and and how you ended up where you are. And I yeah, I I do think Mayor Tammy has a wonderful vision, and she certainly did with in bringing that to you and and having you run. I think it's I think it's been a really good thing. I what I really like about it is that there were some things that were that were moving forward that I think all of us were a little bit worried about weren't going to move forward. And it was so seamless because you had worked with her for so long that it it just it it was probably one of the most seamless transitions from the public's perspective that I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

So yeah, and and you know, I'm we're not the same person. We don't we have a lot of the same values, but we don't necessarily have the same, you know. Trust me, there's many times I said, Hey, Mayor, you should think about doing this. And she said, No, I'm gonna do it this way. Yeah, sure. Or I'm gonna focus on this instead of this and stuff. So it we were able to keep the continuity. And and I think that for the employees perspective, I think the employees are the biggest winners because of, you know, same focus on our mission, vision, values that we've had, our our strategic plan priorities, you know, how we view, you know, trying to work with our partners to get things accomplished, you know, our our view of the faith community and the importance that employees all face, you know, in providing providing our community with it needs through that. Um, but yeah, but at the end of the day, there's there's all also differences of opinion on how you go about delivering the services and working with your teams. But um, I can't thank her enough for uh seeing that in me and giving me the opportunity to serve.

SPEAKER_00 47:38

Yeah. Yeah. She's very good that way. Um, how about you may not like this question either. Is there something about you that people would never guess?

SPEAKER_01 47:54

Oh, that they'd never guess.

SPEAKER_00 47:56

Um, I mean, maybe your wife would guess or your kids would guess, but like the average person would would not suspect about you. I'm a lot of fun. Uh I do suspect that. I gotta tell you that. You every once in a while you'll you'll throw something out like, oh, mayor's funny. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

Um, and and I I'm I'm not gonna say I'm guarded, but you know, I I I do um try to keep it professional.

SPEAKER_02 48:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:21

Yeah, where I need to be in public and other places. But I can be a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02 48:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:26

And uh that that comes out in various ways at various times. And, you know, in the office, you know, historically people could see that side of me. But um that being said, I don't know if that's so unique that something like to your point that they would would never do.

SPEAKER_00 48:41

And well, you are a very I mean, you're very professional front. I mean, you I so I I've just had a couple of glimpses myself where I'm just like, oh. Um so I do I do think that that's something people probably don't realize about you, is that you you're that you're fun and that you because I mean, and I think I mean the job is serious.

SPEAKER_01 48:59

I like to think I've got a a quick wit and sense of humor. Sometimes, you know, other people may not see it that way, you know. But um, you know, I I I like to sing when I'm the only one around or you know, generally around the office type stuff, you know, it's stuff like that that are just personality based that you would not expect uh through that. But anything else, I mean, my my college fraternity nickname is Little Biscuit, you know, and and and so those are those things. And I when I do uh we do um barbecues for all the city employees, and I wear my my apron and it says little biscuit across it and you know stuff. So yeah, I I do have a side of me that uh, you know, if there was videographic evidence from the 1990s, you know, who knows what people would actually think about uh about myself, but most of that never really made it out of the 90s, so we're good.

SPEAKER_00 49:52

That's funny. I I've got a few of those myself. I I get it. Those darn 90s. Um what is there an experience that has shaped you um that you can think of that that was that was pivotal? It was some sort of an experience that shaped either the your trajectory or maybe your just how you approach the world.

SPEAKER_01 50:15

Oh um you know, I mean the the one that shaped my trajectory, there were the two points. Uh three. The one I talked about where my fraternity brother said we think you'd be in student government. So one of the one of my other fraternity brothers served with me in student government at the time. And after college, I moved to the Treasure Valley and I was here for a year. I won't go into the story about what led me to accept uh this offer from him, but he called me up. He was in, he left after college, he went to DC and I came here and he said, Robert, uh Robbie, at that's what he called me at the time, not Robert. He said, You need to be in DC. You this you would thrive back here. This is the type of stuff that you're really passionate about. And after I had a conversation with someone uh where I was employed, I left and moved to Washington, D.C. And I was there for 10 years. And that's where I really I think got a strong sense of what my current views are on our current state of politics and government um through that experience and you know, where I see where I learned that, you know, I view politics as a business, you know, not as a personal uh situation. I I understand that, you know, there's policy, there's procedure, and there's politics, and all three of them have their roles in achieving the outcomes that you want to achieve. But I think him getting me out to DC, that was another pivotal point. And then the third one was the conversation with Mayor Tammy about running. I I would say those are the three points that along my career path that have kind of got me to where I am. Where any one of those three, had I not been involved in government in DC for 10 years, would I have been looking for government opportunities when I moved back from DC? I I can probably say no. I probably wouldn't have. You know, who knows what I would have done if I would have stayed at the job here in uh Boise in 1996. What would have been my career path trajectory? Do not know.

SPEAKER_00 52:21

I've got a thousand questions formulating right now. I guess the one that it's the forefront of my mind is the fact that these are the these are three major things and they involved humans and who have who who helped you, who helped you by expressing what they see in you or encouraging you to do something. And I think about this rising generation. And of course, we've got issues with uh being on electronics and but the there's a real big disconnection with human inner interaction. Uh you just gave it three really good points of how that your whole life changed because of other human beings. Is there something that you would say to youth right now that that are having trouble connecting with other human beings to help them understand this value that you just clearly shared with us?

SPEAKER_01 53:13

Um I I think yes, yes-ish. And and it I'm gonna go back to uh when I was in uh so I was back from Whitman College between my freshman and sophomore year. I was living with my brother uh here in Boise working. And I remember being at uh party at someone's house, and remember sitting on the uh floor in the kitchen with uh a woman who was a BSU, having a conversation, you know, completely different background life um and perspectives than I had, and politically very different, and just having a very meaningful conversation and getting to know them. And I think that's the the best advice I can give is, you know, taking the time to to engage with people that you, especially those that you don't know to gain a perspective on the life that you can't get, you know, through your phone, um, or even just talking to your own, your your close friends for your entire life, is you got to go outside your bubble in order to find perspective and and maybe to push yourself. And you you you said, yeah, it you know, it kind of goes back to the say the city question you asked. And this is what I don't know if Karen talked about this or not. You know, she said, I I'm a good learner, at least to me. You know, I I I I hear what people say and I try to apply it um where I can or where I think it makes sense. So I I I listen first and foremost to what people are saying and then bring that into you know what to do. And and I think that's important for any generation is to listen. You know, listen to perspectives and you know, think about them and apply them if they make sense. Not everyone's going to.

SPEAKER_00 55:01

Right.

SPEAKER_01 55:02

Um, you know, and I'm not gonna say you can't get those perspectives from uh a device, but you can have two-way interactions on it. And and that's what's important is be able to ask your questions and learn from it.

SPEAKER_00 55:15

I have just seemed this seems to be this theme that keeps coming up in my life, this um seek first to understand. So, in in kind of relating that to what you're saying, in addition to having these connections with other people, truly trying to understand, you know, they they you listen to what they're having to say, but then to dig deeper and say, what do you mean by that? Or how does that play out, or what does that look like? And trying to truly understand that you also can't do that with a device.

SPEAKER_01 55:41

No, you can't.

SPEAKER_00 55:42

Exactly. Um, okay. So um I want to talk to the the mayor in a city that is the size of Meridian from 20 years ago. And they can see that there's there is an influx, it's a it's becoming a popular place. So I want to see if we can give them a little bit of advice. So let's uh let's start with, and maybe just generally, uh what are what are things that other cities can learn from the way Meridian has has grown?

SPEAKER_01 56:17

Um I I think it's understanding what tools are there and don't be afraid to make the hard decisions early. Because you know, if you if you put off making hard decisions early, it's gonna be it's hard to find your way back. And you know, I I tell people all the time, we are where we are because of the hard decisions that people made uh well before I was an elected official or even a city staff member. So look at your tools, make the hard decisions to put yourself on the right path would would be the very first thing I would say. Because if you don't have the resources, you you're never gonna provide to your community what they need, hope, and expect. Second thing I'd say is stay focused on your mission, your vision, and your values. You know, that you know, and uh I'll even take that one step further. You know, stay focused on your services. Don't get into the weeds. You know, try to keep politics out of service delivery. You want to play politics, that's fine. Just don't make it part of what you're trying to do with your police, your fire, your parks, your libraries, whatever it is that you do. Focus on how you're gonna deliver those services to the community and let that be the role of your city government.

SPEAKER_00 57:37

That's great advice.

SPEAKER_01 57:38

It's served Meridian very well.

SPEAKER_00 57:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:40

You know, where we we've tried to stay in our lane. Doesn't mean we don't all have opinions about things going on around us or other issues, but if we stay focused on our services and because people always say, you know, is a road Republican or Democrat? Is a sewer line Republican, Democrat? If you if if you just stay focused on those things, then you can keep the politics out. Doesn't mean you don't have issues. Doesn't mean you won't have policy disagreements, but then there are gonna be disagreements uh uh about a service delivery, not about an election, not about an issue that has nothing to do with your fire department.

SPEAKER_00 58:23

Makes sense. I think I might know the answer to this, but I'm gonna ask it anyway, just in case it's different than what I think. Um what is what are things that that are harder to fix later? Like if you make a decision that are it's harder to reverse and go back where it's on.

SPEAKER_01 58:39

Uh number one is land use.

SPEAKER_00 58:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 58:42

Yeah, because uh land use is an entitlement and you can't take that away. So if you make the wrong land use decision, the person who now has that entitlement has it forever. Unless they come back and ask for it, or unless you try to de-annex them and kick them out of your city because of a poor decision. I've never even heard of that happening. But that's the one thing is what once you have a right that's been issued to you by the city, you know, that right cannot be taken away. So that's that's the number one. Number two might be sewer. You know, just you know, uh once you make decisions about what you're gonna build and uh that doesn't mean it can't change, but it's gonna be a costly change uh if you decide to go a different direction.

SPEAKER_00 59:28

Yeah. I can I'm thinking about a lot of things, including sewer, now that you've kind of shared with me that part.

SPEAKER_01 59:35

Yeah. And I don't want to discount water. Water is just uh a little easier and a little cheaper than sewer.

SPEAKER_00 59:40

Yeah. Makes sense. So dreaming big, um, or not, I guess, either way. I know this might make people bite their nails a little bit, but um, how big do you think meridian could become?

SPEAKER_01 59:53

Well, the there's two different answers to that. How different does our what does our comp plan land use guide say meridian could become based upon your current densities and a full build out, etc.? And you know, that number is identified uh uh over 300,000 people. So still doubling our current size if you follow the current comp plan uh through that process. Um do I think it will be bigger than that? Oh, over time, absolutely, because as land becomes more valuable, as this as the treasure valley becomes more built out, you're you're gonna see what happened in Boise. You know, they'll they'll be built up in certain locations. Now, is that 100 years from now? Might be, you know, and how is water and and sewer at the time in the Treasure Valley or someplace else? All those things will play into those conversations. So, you know, I I think that's my my short answer is there's the what we see in the 50 to 100 year horizon is that $300,000, 300,000 people number that's kind of been identified. But, you know, who knows what it could become. Um you know, it depends upon how how much people want to live here and how the community wants to grow over the that time frame.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:18

It's kind of blows your mind to think about it, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:20

It it does. And you know, that's that's not putting high, that's not putting more high density in. That's a lot of low density residential and southern meridian, which is gonna take a while. You know, that's not gonna happen overnight, you know. Um, but northwest meridian, where you're up up in that area, you know, those are areas that will take 30, 40 more years before you see those areas built out um if we go current rates, and it's projected to slow down because it's harder to build in some of those areas. Sure. A little bit more costly.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:53

Well, as you think about it, I mean go forward to that point where there's 300,000 people. What do you hope that that meridian? What what do you hope that that that that isn't lost, I guess? That's something that that meridian is now that you hope we're able to retain when we have 300,000 people?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:14

Well, the simple answer is like keep keeping our our heritage, our roots, you know, the dairy days parade, you know, being able to to celebrate the historical part of our community. I think on on the largest sense is the you know you still have a very active faith community that's in our community helping, you know, make sure the city is not become the social services network provider, that that's uh something that our faith and nonprofits are able to do. So if we're gonna add another 150,000 people, and like I said, we've added 140,000 people since 1990, just you know, like for for perspective. So if we're gonna say over the next 35 years, we're gonna do that same thing again. I hope we get similar people that will choose to locate to our community that wanna get engaged, um, that wanna, you know, believe that what the current role of government is, the proper role of government, and don't look for more from their government and can rely upon others uh that will have a little bit. I'd love to see a little bit of what I would say that uh Western uh libertarian beliefs and neighbors helping neighbor, you know, uh good fences make good neighbors uh for a variety of reasons, you know. Keep the cows out, in our case it's dogs. Um, but you know, that you can lean up against the fence and have a conversation about the challenges that you're both facing. And uh, you know, I think that's the beauty of a split rail fence, right? Split rail fences were to keep the cows, you know, from going, but didn't keep the neighbors from going on each side and seeing each other face to face and having a conversation. And that's those are the type of things that I would hope that if uh our city were to grow to 300,000, that that mentality of the people that live here is what because I I I I think it's still here. I just hope we don't lose it.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:11

Mayor, that's a lovely place to stop. I I I really appreciate that. And I think it's uh yeah, this is a great, great thing to end with, I think, for people to have that vision. Um, I because I just love it. It's just right. Thank you for being on today. I really appreciate your time. And most importantly, thank you for being a leader in this community that people can look up to, that we can admire, that we can follow, you know, with faith. And thanks for everything you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:38

Thanks, Callie. Appreciate being here. You did a great job too.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:41

Thanks. Hey, thanks for watching. If you or someone you know has a story to share, we'd love to hear from you. Reach out, share your story, and you could be featured on an upcoming episode. And remember, once your story gets shared, it will no longer be one that nobody knows.