Welcome to the Nobody Knows podcast with Callie Zamzow. Join us for conversations with local changemakers and hear the stories that don't always get told. It'll be honest, messy and beautiful. Touching and humorous. Slow down for a glass and pull up a chair. This is the Nobody Knows podcast. Welcome to Nobody Knows. I'm your host, Callie's Zamzow.. What'd you think about? That was lively, wasn't it? I tried to change it up every once. That might have been one of the best ones you've ever done. Did you see my face? Did you see me light up? I was like, whoa! What is happening? Who is she all of a sudden? I know. I know you've been listening to your own podcast. I've been having you. You're like, man, I do that to the same every time. You know what? I here's a true thing. I make myself listen to every single episode and I say make. Because, like most people, I have a hard time hearing myself and I, and I do make notes, and then I continually do the same mistakes over and over again. So apparently I'm not a good student. I'm so. At least you're learning. You're on the curve. It's a long. It's a long road. It's long road. I'm getting there. And with that, let's do a Zamzow tip of the week, shall we? I would like to discuss the fact that there will be a free colorable class this Saturday, May 16th at 10 a.m. at all 12 stores. Now, you might be asking yourself, Jodi, what is a colorful class? What is a colorful class? Callie, a color bull is really a fancy name for. Like, if you're going to pot up a bunch of flowers, that's really what it is. You can put it in a bowl shaped pot or a pot shaped pot. You just put it into something. But it's but it's colorful flowers, and there's a way of doing it so that it's pleasant to the eye. So apparently if you just put a bunch of flowers in, you may be successful in having it look nice. But there are some actual things that you, if you do it properly and put certain flowers in certain ways within the pot, it will spill and thrill if you will. Wow, you just took me on a journey. Well, this is why you need to attend the class I'm in and it's free. So it's free. It's at all 12 of our stores. It's this Saturday, May 16th, 2026, in case you're listening in the future and we would love to have you be there. We will focus on the soil. We'll we'll focus on color impacts, choosing harmonious flowers, plants that will actually grow well together, putting them in together. And then you know how to get them to make it through the whole season without dying on you. So it's going to be worth it. And if you're somebody who likes to, you know, you generally just buy maybe a pre potted pot. I can tell you from my own experience, because I do this myself, you it becomes your baby when you do it and you just take better care of it, care of it. And you can choose better soil so they actually do better. So, you know, you can buy a pre-made one that's totally, you know, that's that's all rain, but it is boring. You gotta do your own. So come and join us. It'll be fun, I promise. If you want more information, you could go to Zamzows.com to learn more about that. Okay, so this is a full kind of I don't know if it's a full circle moment, but it's kind of one of those interesting situations where my dad actually met today's guest, and he he had a very, I guess, robust conversation. And he came back to me and he said, Callie Kay, you need to have this guy on your podcast, which I always love you. You love it when your parents sees you, see you doing something and they support it and they're excited about it, and then they come up with a guest for you. Like, this is the greatest thing, but it can be a little iffy. And sometimes you don't know, right? But as soon as he told me who it was, I was like, oh my gosh, this is an awesome guest and I'm very excited about it. I'm incredibly curious, and I'm excited to learn a little bit about what you do and how you do it. So welcome to the studio, Andy Koenig. Well, thanks. Thanks so much for having me. Yes. It's wonderful. So you are the founder and president of. And the master distiller of Koenig Distillery? Yes, yes I am. Yeah, whether I like it or not. Well, and I suspect you do like it. I do like it. Yeah. Otherwise it'd be a hard grind. Yeah. Yeah, I would think. And you've been doing it quite some time. Yeah. So the distillery has been open. This is our 27th year of being open. Wow. Yeah. Where did that time go? I don't know. See all the gray hair on my head? That's right. That's where it went. Yeah, I feel, yeah, I feel you. Well, so can you. Before we kind of jump into my set of questions, would you just give us a quick sort of background about you? Sure. So originally, my mother grew up actually in Idaho. She grew up on a family farm outside of Kuna, between Kuna and Meridian, okay. And when she was growing up, she they had a little dairy. You know, back in those days, everybody had small dairies, right? Hundred cows. And she just grew up there and worked and worked and worked. And then she eventually became a home teacher and ended up in Gooding, Idaho, where then she eventually was up in Ketchum, Sun Valley area, where she met my dad. My dad was actually originally from Austria, and he was. He came to Idaho via California and Vancouver, BC, and he eventually settled his roots there. And that's where my brother and I were actually born. So my dad was Austria and my mother was from a farm here in the Treasure Valley. So it was a very interesting upbringing. Yeah. And then we went when when we were in elementary school, I was fortunate enough. My dad said, I want I want my kids to know where I came or where their dad was from. So we lived there actually for three years as kids in grade school, and we had to go to school there, and we didn't speak a lick of of German. And my mom and dad threw us into school there. So it was, it was trial by fire, to say the least. So it was it was a definitely an eye opening experience for us. But it was a great experience and I wouldn't trade it for the world, but it was very, very hard, as you can imagine. You know, we were used to skiing up and Ketchum and then next thing we know, we're in Austria, living under the Iron Curtain there while on the school. But while we were, while we were in Austria, the neat thing that was kind of interesting. My dad still has a bunch of relatives there, and his house is still there that he, you know, had been in the family for 4 or 500 years. I want to say, wow. Crazy. Yeah. I mean, and it's still standing and it's still in the same family. But what we did in the backyard, they had a few fruit trees and, you know, some apples and some pears and that kind of thing. And over there, the liquor laws are different, where if you have a little bit of fruit of your own in your orchard, you can distill them for your own consumption. So, you know, naturally, everybody kind of did that over there. And when we were kids, we got to participate in that. You know, I was ten years old, so I thought it was pretty cool. Yeah. For making me shine in the backyard. Right. It's really cool. But anyway, that kind of stuck with me after we came home back to Ketchum and finished high school and went on to college. And I thought one day in college, I was sitting in the dorms and I said, you know, it'd be really cool to have a a distillery like we had seen in Austria as kids. So after college, I went back to Austria to do an apprenticeship there. Wow. So yeah, it was interesting. I spent two more years over there at a little distillery that had been in business for since 1811. Same family. And it's still there also. And there's where I learned how to produce the Brandy's that we currently produce. Wow. Wow. So, yeah, I just. And so then after the apprenticeship we started, we bought a little farm out on the Sunny Slope where the distillery is, and we planted a little bit of an orchard, and that's kind of where the distillery began. So when you say we, who's we? So it was my brother and I. So my brother had he he had he actually studied architecture but he had interest in the wine business. So he started a little winery and I started the distillery on the same property there. That's cool. Yeah. And is it just the two of you? Yeah. No more siblings. Yeah. Oh. That's cool. So you share that the time in Germany and all of that history together. You went through it together? Yeah. Interesting. He was. He's a couple of years older than I am, so. Okay. Yeah, we were over there in school and everything else. Gosh. That's cool. That's that's really cool. So, So what? Tell me about the time. Yeah. When you were in Austria during that period of time where you were learning how to to do this, this thing that you thought you were interested in, right? You kind of had you had the passion for it, but now you actually have to go and learn it, right? What was that process like? So that was interesting. I happened to just get an apprenticeship at a distillery that we kind of had some family connections through, and it's a very traditional place where, you know, they bring in nice, perfectly ripe fruit and they ferment them, distill them in old traditional copper pot stills that are made by artisans in Germany. And then they're aged and then blended with water and bottled. So it was it was a great experience over there, too. I mean, you know, I got to see so much culture and just family traditions that have been passed on and on and on. And it was it was it was great. And it, you know, I wouldn't trade it for the world. It was it was really the foundation of how I ended up starting our distillery. It seems like now I'm no expert. So please, if I sound like an idiot, it's probably because I am I. But it seems like there are a lot more people who are willing to open breweries or even wineries than distilleries, at least around here. Is it harder? Is it just more like what? What are the why? Why do you think that's the case? Or maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there's a ton of them and I just don't know it. No. You're right. So distilleries are very hard to start because there's a lot of federal regulation regulation around it. Wineries and breweries are in a different class of of alcohol, so it's much easier to start a brewery or a winery than it is a distillery. Distillery. You have to have a federal permit. You have to have highly bonded facility, a lot of audits. There's a lot of paperwork that goes into starting a distillery. So I found out the hard way that distilleries are built for the next generation. Oh. Interesting. Yes. So what does that mean? Does that mean there's just so much work up front that you have to do? And then by the time you've actually gotten it all done, you're ready to retire and the next generation can actually take it and run with it. Is that pretty much. Well, the process just to get started is, you know, it took us 3 or 4 years just to get a permit because you have to have first of all, you have to have local permitting. Right. So on our farm out there, we had to go through the county and get a permit to, to to have a distillery there. And then you go through the federal process, which, you know, includes background checks, fingerprinting, all kinds of stuff that takes it took us years. I mean, the process started back in 1994. Oh, wow. And we didn't open the distillery until 1999. So it was five years of of grinding just to get just to get a permit to be open. So yeah, it takes, takes a lot of, a lot of doing wild. So again this is going to show my naivete. But like so when like moonshiners are they making. Are they distilling or are they making something else. It's the same. I think that's made for TV is what I think that is. That's fair. I don't I don't think anybody would be too pleased on the federal side with what those guys are doing on TV. Right, right. Clearly, clearly, that's part of the fun because they're trying to get trying not to get caught. Right. But are they doing the same? Like, are they are they creating an end product that is anywhere near what you're I mean, I'm going to guess not. Yours is probably much more refined. Yeah. Those are pretty unrefined products. And, you know, the idea there is to get as much alcohol as you can. And in our business, we try to focus on getting the most quality alcohol that we can. Right. But yeah, those those things everybody asked me a lot about moonshiners, but I tend to think that that's probably not a thing. We're just all so curious. Reality TV, it's ruining all of us. Yes. So help me understand about just like the the process of of creating. Because it sounds like when you're talking about like quality, like there's some steps in there that, that create that. So can you kind of talk to the process itself without giving away any secrets. So that's and that's the interesting thing. That's why I wanted to start the distillery on a farm, because the important thing about distilling brandy specifically, is you have to start out with perfectly tree ripened fruit. So anything that would show up in the grocery store that was picked, you know, weeks and weeks prior to anybody buying them. But like we try to go from perfectly ripe to the next day, they're almost overripe. So you wouldn't necessarily you could never ship them from here to even, you know, Twin Falls or whatever to, to produce anything. You almost need to pick it off the tree when it's at its peak of ripeness. That way, the fruit has the nicest aroma and flavors and sugars that then you can convert during fermentation to alcohol. So that's why the distillery is on on a farm, because we can pick it off the tree. And 100 yards further is the processing for the distillery where we take the perfectly ripe fruit, grind it up and ferment it on site, and then we distill it there too. So everything happens within 100 yards of where it was grown. That sounds unusual. Is it unusual? Is that unusual? That's that's the way it is in Europe. That's kind of the way I was taught. So I was taught that way. So that's the way it was done. But it's it's different, obviously, when you're dealing with corn or potatoes or, you know, vodka and whiskey production. But on the brandy side, the peak of ripeness is really the key to the whole process. I mean, you can still make mistakes during the fermentation and distillation side, but really the quality is made on the tree and you have to capture that right when the trees or when the fruit is perfectly right. Yeah. I don't know that that is true for every distiller, that their fruit is right there and that they're picking it at the perfect time. And then like your process seems like you really care, not that others don't. But that's going to great lengths. Oh yeah. It's whatever. You know, it's it to really do it the proper way, like the traditional European way. It takes longer. And that's kind of what I appreciate about the business and learning it that way. There were never any corners taken or shortcuts. It was about the end product. And how do you get there? Well, you start with your own farm and an orchard. Yeah. So it's definitely much harder. And there's other people that do it differently. Obviously if they have a distillery in Boise, I'm sure they can make products as well. And a lot of products that are distilled aren't as perishable either. So, you know, potatoes and grains and corn and that kind of thing that's not as critical as the fruit production, which is how the distillery actually started. Right? So my family used to have a, an orchard out in Emmet. You're aware of this. Been there. So I, I have just a tiniest understanding of growing fruit on an orchard. That alone is a big job. Like, if that were the only thing you did, that would be a lot growing the fruit. But you're doing both sides of it and there and they're totally different skill sets. So how does that work? Well, I guess I got lucky. My my mother was on the farming side and my dad, you know, was Austrian. And those two things kind of came together that way. And if you want to have a distillery, you got to have a pretty, pretty good work ethic because it's it's long hours, it's hard and it's to do it that way. It just takes a lot more effort. So it's it's definitely a challenge having, you know, two sets of things going on. Now we have five different layers of things going on. But in the beginning yeah, that's that's the way it was. And when we first opened it was myself and me at the distillery. So we didn't have any employees or anything at the time. Wow. You know, it's interesting, my, my dad, I'm understanding now why it is that my dad wants me to talk to you because, you know, so we make a lot of our own products, and there's a whole process to all the products that we make and how we make them. And there's and I'm just thinking about some of the products in particular that literally there's one that like it's fermented. And so there's this whole process and a timing that goes along with it. And my husband and I are now the ones who who make that product. And you can't say, well, I'll start it, but then maybe I'll finish it on Tuesday. Like there's a timing where you will be finishing in it, not just on Tuesday, but Tuesday morning at 8:00, because that's when the whole thing starts. And so is it similar to that where where you were, the process goes such that you have to be there, particular timing and that sort of thing? Oh yeah, it's very critical. That was one of the first things my boss told me. In Austria, you distill when it's time to distill, not when you have time to distill. And there's really a lot of truth to that. When the fermentation is complete, it's got to be distilled, especially, you know, more sensitive. You know, some of the fruits are more sensitive, where they really have to be distilled quickly so that, you know, you capture the best flavors and aromas from those, those fruits. So yeah, it's very critical. And if it's on a Sunday, it's Sunday. Yeah. So that's the way it works. That's exactly right. Yeah. Do you think that I don't know that there are a lot of things in this world that require that, that work ethic or and or just that required, I guess, just caring. And so I, I'm wondering if I don't even know where the question is in this one. I guess I'm, I'm, I'm curious if you if you when you're finding workers to help you, I'm assuming you don't do it by yourself. Now you have a team. Yes. How do you find people that are willing to do that? Well, I'd like to think it's because everybody likes me so much and they continue to work for me. That's probably true. You know, in reality, most of our employees have all been at the distillery for years. Some of them have been there for years now, some of them five, six, eight. So I try to, you know, promote a culture where everybody's happy to come to work. I'm sure they're not most of the time or sometimes, but and I get that. But I think, you know, and I, and I try to give people ownership and try to make them a part of it instead of saying, I'm I'm the guy that owns it. You work for me. I try to I try to always promote and say, you know, we're going to do this, this is how we're going to do it. And, you know, we do a lot of or at least I try to just promote a team culture around everything we do. And that's, I think, why they come and work on Sundays if they have to. Yeah. It's you're kind of causing me to reflect on it as well. We have some teammates who've been around for a very, very long time. And they especially like our feed mill where things are. I mean, it's a very old mill and it's an old fashioned way of doing things. And once you teach somebody how to do something, you hope they stick around because it took a long time to teach them how exactly to do to run these old machinery. And but I there is a feeling and I wonder if you have the same thing of of it's a deeper caring almost for these humans that are willing to do these things for us, that it maybe, maybe less. It doesn't feel so much like an employee relationship. Is that kind of what you were talking about as far as the ownership? And yeah, and, you know, I honestly I treat everybody that works with me, you know, as a, as a big family. So and I want people to come and be happy coming to work and, you know, enjoy being part of the process. And I think that's important. I don't want people to think it's just another job, but it's a grind and, you know, it is work and it's hard work. But I'd like to think that people like being a part of something. Yeah, it sounds like there are a lot of moving parts to what you're what you're doing between the fruit ripening and, well, growing the fruit, the fruit ripening, the, you know, get all the whole process. How what does that look like as far as choreographing it? Well, like I tell a lot of people, it's management by crisis. Many days that's how we operate. Whatever. I usually try to make a list in the morning of what I'm going to actually do for the day, but by about 805 in the morning, if not before, the list is in my back pocket. And we're doing other things in just in the just because we have to keep things going, you know, things change quickly. Fruit ripens quicker than you thought. A shipment of this comes sooner than you thought. A shipment needs to go out in a different day. Scheduling issues, logistical problems. I mean, there's all kinds of things. So you have to be willing to constantly change and be changing quickly, which is the nice thing about a small business, you know, I don't have to run it up a corporate chain whether or not we're going to bottle, you know, potato vodka or if we're going to bottle bourbon for the day, we can make a decision pretty quickly, which is kind of nice on a small business side, but you got to be willing to make make quick decisions and good decisions, which I've gotten better at over the years. Yeah. So speaking of getting better over the years, you have expanded. You've kind of you've grown as you've gone. What's that been like? What's that process look like for you and your team? It's been we're always changing when, you know, like when I said when we first started, we started making the brandies from the orchard and whatever. And then, you know, in the early 2000, vodka became very popular. So we just started we decided to start making potato vodka since we're in Idaho. That makes sense, right? Perfect. And then we expanded further into another Idaho themed product, which is Huckleberry Vodka, and then eventually into peach vodka, also, which comes from our orchards as well. But you always have to be willing to change because, you know, the marketing, the market changes for for products that you're selling. In the early days, you know, brandy and vodka were more popular than all of a sudden in the, you know, maybe around 2008, ten, all of a sudden bourbon and whiskey became really a hot item for, you know, millennials and younger people. And in the old days, in the in the 1970s, 80 year old guys were drinking bourbon. Now, 21 year old women are drinking bourbon. Yeah. So you have to be willing to change. Otherwise, you know, you kind of make yourself obsolete pretty quickly. So we've always we've always, even though we've stayed with the traditional items, we've always added stuff based on what what the market needs at the time to stay competitive. How do you keep up with what the market the current thing is like? How do you. I do a lot of industry research and you know, you being in the industry for so long, you kind of see where trends are headed and you try to, you know, you're always aiming at a moving target. It seems like, you know, we're one day it's this the next day, and trends change quickly. So you got to be willing to be dynamic and make those changes so that you don't get behind. Yeah. Do you have people that maybe I don't know, if you call them mentors or whether they're just people in the industry that you have looked to to kind of help shape how you're doing things. Do you have people that I've had a ton of great mentors over my lifetime? I mean, I had unbelievable good teachers in, in Austria in an elementary school that, you know, taught us a good work ethic and learning how to do things the right way. And I've had great mentors here after we've opened the distillery to industry people. You know, ironically, one of my best friends who became one of my best friends was actually through the state liquor division who ran the liquor division. Oh, interesting. 15 years. So. But yeah, I've always tried to build good relationships around people that, you know, can mentor and and and help me out. Yeah. Do do people seek you out to have you mentor them? Sometimes a lot of people come in and say, oh, I'd really like to start a distillery. And what do you think about that? And I say, that's a really bad idea. And I said, and not because I don't want any competition, but it's a very, very, very hard road. And fortunately I was young enough to start it at a, you know, I was only, you know, 24 years old when I finished college and started my apprenticeship. But it's been it's been ongoing now for 32 years. So wow, it's it's not something, you know, a lot of people want to start a business in the next year. It's cash flowing beautifully. Right. This is a long, long thing because a lot of these products we make like the bourbon, it's been aging now for 6 to 10 years before we even consider bottling it. So we're forecasting now what we might sell in six, eight, ten, 12 years from now. So that's why it's that's why it's it's a very tough business. Yeah. Very unique in that sense. Yes. Yeah. Do you I do this myself. I'm just wondering if you do do sometimes want to go back or maybe even consider going back to do like another apprenticeship just to learn another set of things. Was there something I mean, that was a cool experience, getting to go back to Austria and spend that time totally focused on, you know, one set of like learning how to do one thing right. Do you ever, especially with all the juggling of everything, you're doing it. Do you ever kind of long to just go back to the simple and be like, I'm going to take another two years and go apprentice for something else? Have you thought about that for a different industry? Yeah. Or or within the same, maybe just a different type of I don't know. Right. Yeah. And we've done that. I have done that actually. Like when we started distilling potatoes for vodka. That's a whole different equation about how those products are made, because the potatoes actually have to be cooked before they can be fermented, and then they're distilled a lot differently so that you have, you know, a neutral tasting product. So that was a whole different thing that actually I was in Germany for another month or so, you know, after we started to decide to do the vodka project. So and then when we got into bourbon production, that was a whole nother thing, which is a whole nother set of equipment, a whole nother set of, of rules and aging and learning about, you know, different barrel types and different grains that go into bourbon. So it seems like I'm on the continuous education track. Yeah, it sounds like it. Yeah. Me too. I just love it. It's. And you know what? In an 80 year old guy that used to actually build the copper stills that are in our distillery, he was 85 years old at the time. And he said, he said, let me tell you something. And I was 30 maybe. And he says, you're never done learning. He said, you learn something new every day and he says, you're never done. And he said, and I always took that to heart. I said, you know, he's right. Here it is. He's 80 years old. He's accomplished pretty much everything in his career. But he was still learning. And and I think that's something to do or there's something to that. I think so too. I also think and I after speaking with here for a few minutes and feel like I know you, I think nice people are curious people. Yeah, I do too. And here's why I think that's true. Because if you're curious in one in your area, you're it's really hard not to be curious in other areas. So a lot of the headbutting, I think that is happening in society right now. My philosophy is that we're just not curious enough. We just need to get more curious. And I think the people that I've met that seem to be the easiest to get along with are ones that are leaning in and asking questions before they're telling or laying into you about something. Just curiosity in general, and I think that's a lifelong learning attitude. If you're trying to learn things right, you're all the time. I agree, if you think you're done learning, then you know you're going to get behind really fast. Yeah. So if you think you're done learning, you might be done. Period. Which is the thing I'm like chasing no, no, no, no, I want to keep learning because that means I still have a reason to be here. You know what? Someday I might have to learn to use a walker. Exactly. Oh, boo. I don't like that idea. Okay. So how? Let's talk about Sunnyslope a little bit, because you've you've been out there a long time. You. And it's changed and morphed and, and whatnot over the years. How how has it changed from when you started? One of the main differences now? The slope is definitely a lot different than it used to be when we first started there. A lot of the roads in the area weren't even paved. Oh wow. So I would say, you know, obviously the main thing is there's a lot more houses. What's kind of neat about it is there's actually more wineries than there were when we first started. There's still a fair amount of of orchard production, which is kind of nice, and agriculture is still big, but it's definitely changed. You know, you see the five acre parcels where people come and, you know, build nice houses, housing and live there and enjoy, you know, all the things that we do. But it's kind of a little bit isolated because it's quite a distance from Boise still. So I, you know, I don't envision that it is going to become necessarily full of subdivisions. And I think the Wine Commission and the idea of preserving the agricultural ground and the ag tourism segment of the Sunnyslope, I think it hopefully isn't going to change to the point where people don't recognize it and it isn't attractive to come visit anymore. Yeah. It is so beautiful out there. It is. Yes. It's very peaceful and a lovely place. Well, so speaking of of growth, the population in the area has grown quite a bit since you started this endeavor. What has changed with your business as the just the sheer number of people has grown in this valley. Well, for on a positive side, I mean, we have a lot more customers. Yeah, yeah that's good. And actually a lot more customers that enjoy kind of farm to table products. They like seeing how things are made. They like spending the weekend, you know, driving around looking at production facilities, wineries and our distillery. So in that way, I think it's been a positive thing. I mean, obviously the negative is, you know, the traffic and the growth and whatever. But, you know, a lot of there's a lot of good things that have come with the growth in the Treasure Valley. And I think it's important to recognize, you know, everybody talks about the good old days, but do they also remember how there were no good restaurants? No. No where to buy anything that you'd want to buy? True. You know, those kind of things. So, you know, you kind of have to learn to take the good with the bad and you're not going to change anything. So you kind of roll with the punches. But in general, I think it's been good for us. Yeah. So I like your I like your feeling on that. I remember as a kid, like my cousins lived in the Tacoma, Seattle area and they would come down and visit with us and they'd be like, well, can we go to a mall? And this was before we had a mall. I'm like, we don't have a mall. Like, well, what do you guys do around here? I'm like, well, we could kick around a soccer ball, right? Yeah. I was like, so I think about it now and it's man, there's lots and lots going on. And yes, you're right, we do have this growth of people and we've had to kind of work around some of the some of the difficulties. But I think overall it's been it's been a good thing for us. I think so too. Yeah. Well, you talk to me about the tasting room. I'm just I'm so curious. And I admittedly am not well spoken in your realm, so I understand a tasting room, like at a winery. So can you. Can you help our listeners and me understand when you're tasting what you're distilling? What what specifically are people like? Is it the same sort of thing as with wine, where you're you've got the whole thing where you go through and then you're you're trying to I don't know, I don't even know why. Obviously, I don't even know the blind tasting end of things. But is it anywhere similar to that? It is. So liquor laws are a little bit different in Idaho. So, you could come to our tasting room, right? We have a, a contract liquor store there. And so people can buy packaged goods, they can also do a little flight of, of samples. So they get three samples of their choice. And they sit, sit and sip them and, you know, enjoy the scenery and the tasting room. And then they have the option to buy, you know, models to take home. Okay. But fortunately, we went through a legislative session that just ended and we were able to get some legislation passed where now we as a distillery are going to be able to serve liquor by the drink at the distillery. Oh, that's cool, which is a huge step for us because, you know, it's we've been wanting to do this for 30 years. But finally, the, you know, the climate is such that we thought we could get it passed. So we went through the legislative session and we actually got it passed. So on July 1st, you'll be able to come to the distillery and enjoy cocktails or liquor by the drink from products that we make exclusively in our tasting room. And then you'll be able to to purchase models. Oh, so can you talk about that process of of of working with the legislature to try to pass a law? Were you a part of that? Were you were you there kind of giving testimony or anything like that? Yeah. So we, we hired a legislative advisor to help us out, and he kind of, you know, those guys understand the ropes, and they they walk you through the process. But, yeah, we had to write up a bill and we had, you know, alcohol beverage control, help us write the bill. The state liquor division, the governor's office, the attorney general's office, write legislation so that if you did have a distillery and you were in the county, you could serve liquor by the drink. So we went through that process where they have to draft a bill, they name, you know, put a number on it, and then you have to go and meet with all the senators and representatives to see that you can get support for it. Right. Fortunately, it was easier than we thought. We got overwhelmingly good support for it and it passed pretty easily. Nice. But it was still a process. And what was the nice thing about it for me is, you know, everybody talks about government being a disaster and whatever. But in this case, I think it was good because you can see that government can be a good thing and can help small businesses. And I think people saw that, and I think that's why it passed. I think that the whole process can be scary to a huge chunk of the population. And they're very hands off. They're like, well, those people are doing things that I don't have anything to do with. And I love the story that just you just told because it reminds all of us that they're serving us like it's the whole point is us as a community trying to determine what laws we want to have govern us as a whole. And we should all be involved with that. I don't want to shoot on anybody here, but I'm kind of shouldn't on everybody. Like, truly, we this is a process for the people. And I love it that you did that. Yeah. No, it was great. And it was it was good. It was again, a learning experience for me to see how the process actually works, because for years I said, oh boy, that's going to be a monumental task. We're a small company. We don't have the funding to hire big time lobbyists to make this happen. But, you know, we came in as an underdog and and I think legislators saw, you know, they saw something good that we were trying to do. And it made sense. And there wasn't any opposition. So it passed. And and it's a good bill. And anybody that starts at hysteria, if they're not smart enough to start a distillery like they're going to, they're going to also benefit from this bill. So but it's been tough because for years our hands were kind of tied where people could come by packaged products, but they could never really enjoy our products in cocktails. So we're looking forward to it. And on July 1st, that's going to take effect. Okay. It's on my calendar July 1st. So so what's the next project? Well, the next project is actually we're really excited about it. It's actually a tequila brand that we're launching at the distillery. Oh, so as we talked earlier, we talked about, you know, the evolution of a distillery. We started with the brandy. We went into the vodka production, then bourbon whiskey, those kind of things. What's the next thing. Tequila is a is a huge, huge category right now. And we wanted to be part of it. The problem with is tequila has to be made in Mexico to be called tequila, because they have very, a very specific Appalachian to be called tequila. So it's got to be 100% made from blue agave, and it has to be bottled, distilled and fermented everything in Mexico. So this was kind of out of our wheelhouse because traditionally we've always made our own products. But we decided that we'd like to venture into a new thing. So we entered into a partnership with a little distillery in Mexico, in the town of tequila, where they do some custom production for, for people like that, have distilleries. So we traveled to Mexico. We actually took the people from brick 29 and Craft Lounge with us to help develop the flavor profiles that we were after in our tequila, and after two years of really, really hard, agonizing work, our tequila is actually should be in the state liquor stores now. Nice. So that's a big deal. Yes it was. It was a monumental task. And I think part of my team wants to hang me over it for that idea. Just because, you know, there's there's always, you know, you're dealing with the border, you're dealing with cultural differences, you're dealing with language barriers. And it's definitely been a challenge. And talk about a learning experience. This was one. But we're super excited about it. And it is. It's got a kind of a cool name too. It's called Bone Orchard tequila. And Bone Orchard is is actually an old cowboy slang term for a cemetery. Oh, that is cool. Yeah. So we wanted to kind of play off of the old West and the western theme and Idaho and the mountains. So the graphics and the, you know, the packaging is kind of built around the mountains, the desert and the allure of the desert. So it has kind of an Idaho tie, but it's it's obviously still an authentic tequila. And it's going to it's going to do well I think. So we're really excited about it. That's awesome. I did also want to mention the fact that I do love your labeling and like, everything's very thoughtful. You don't like it doesn't look like you through anything together. So I love that about your brand, actually. What's interesting, my wife actually does most of the graphic work she before she met me. Whether that's unfortunate or not, she she did a lot of graphic work for a company in Minneapolis. So she was very in tune with, with art direction and graphics. And so she did a lot of the development with, with graphic people on the development of all of our packaging. So she does a wonderful job. Thank you. Yeah. And of course, you know, our team did a great job obviously too. So yeah. Yeah. Takes a team. Yes it does. So when you think about what you've built over time, what feels the most important to you now as you look back, you know sticking to well how it started. It started with the vision of doing something high quality, keep it in the family and build the business from there. I think that was, you know, the business has obviously grown a lot now we have, you know, 23, 25 employees starting from zero. But I try to keep the vision the same where we started small, we are still small, but we serve and we try to do things in traditional ways and not necessarily just to make the quick dollar, but to make the good dollar so that people can enjoy. Hi, hi. Well made products in Idaho like the big players can and and still keep it a family operation. So that's that's what's been important to me. And then hopefully there'll be something left for the next generation to take over. Well, that's a perfect lead into my final question here, at least on this section, which is just has to do with like as you move into the next generations here, what a succession look like for you and your family. Do you have. So we have a 17 year old son. Okay. And you know, he's still in high school, so we'll see what he's he's interested and he does like the farm side of things. And we'll just have to kind of see where that takes us. Yeah. And then my nephew is my brother's oldest. He, he he actually worked at the distillery for a while before he went off to college. Okay. Took a gap year, and maybe I can convince him to come help us a little bit. But it'd be great if it could be passed on to the next generation. But at the same time, I wouldn't necessarily want to pass it on to the next generation because I said so. I would want it to be that the kids are interested in it. You know, you can't force your kids to be interested in what you are interested in. So I'd like to if it becomes interested, I think that would be great. If not, I don't know. We'll see. I feel that. Yes. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You just never know what these things it's. There is always kind of the desire to try to keep things in the family. But we we love people in our family too much to force them to do something they don't want to do. Plus, the business itself won't do as well if people are not liking their jobs. So okay, I'm going to take a quick break here and thank our sponsors. You'll be familiar with them. This episode is brought to you by Zamzows, your local source for garden, pet and planet friendly products. As a thank you to our Nobody Knows listeners, use Code Koenig at checkout on and receive 10% off your online order. The discount applies automatically and is valid online only and excludes lawn programs, and it runs through August 31st of 2026. You can even buy online and pick up and store at any of our 12 Treasure Valley locations. Visit Zamzows and let's grow something good. Nobody knows like Zamzows. All right, we're going to switch gears now. Okay. This is the Sharing is Caring section. Okay. Somewhat rapid fire ish. Oh, so that means I have to think fast. No, you do not. And you can answer however you like. All right, here we go. How about a local place in the Treasure Valley that you enjoy spending time? Can it be two part answer? Absolutely. I like spending time in my garden. And I also like brick 29 and Craft Lounge in Caldwell. That's kind of a different story, but Dustin and that runs brick 29. He's been probably our best supporter of local products. And the very beginning when we started, he was our very first customer that brought in our Huckleberry vodka. And his Huckleberry martini is still his top selling item in his store. That's cool. What's great about him is I think he's underrated. He's probably one of the best chefs in the northwest, and we're fortunate to have him right here in the Treasure Valley. So it's very good food. Nice and super nice people and down to earth and also very, very hard working. So yes, I've always admired him. So very good answer. How about a drink or a cocktail that you've been enjoying lately? And it doesn't have to be your own. So that would probably be AA7 Devil's bourbon, old fashioned, made with house housemade sirup from Kraft Lounge. Oh, yes. That's very specific. Yes. Yeah. That I've that's that's kind of been my go to lately. So a business or brand local or not that you think is doing something well. Oh wow. That's a tough one. I always like I like all small businesses that do something well and are kind of family operations. And I saw a lot of these in Europe when I was a kid. There's butcher shops and little bakeries that are in these little small towns, like where my dad grew up, and there's people making the same bread, the same sausages, the same cakes and cookies that their ancestors have been making for the past seven generations. And I think that's that's what I like best. Businesses that do something well and keep it in the family and they don't, you know, they stay consistent over generations, not just over one generation or the other. So I like all small businesses, and I also like small businesses that make make products, you know, whether it's electricians or plumbers or all the trades. I've always admired that kind of thing. I agree. All right. How about something outside of work that's been bringing you joy lately? Well, I do a lot of working, but but and that's one great thing about my career. I like working, so it's not like it's a drag for me. So that's kind of an enjoyable thing. But when I do have some time off, I love to go fishing and I love bird hunting and just enjoying the treasure rally, so I like it. Okay, I lied, I have one more question. Okay, and this maybe not rapid fire. I'm just curious because I also work with my brother. What's it like working with your brother? It's good. You know, when you work with family, there's always issues sometimes, right? There's, you know, politics and everything they say, right? But one thing about working with family is, you know, they're loyal and they, you know that the the intentions are there always. And and, you know, I've been fortunate to be able to work with family throughout my life. So it's been great. I have people tell me, and I wonder if they tell you to like, how do you how do you work with your family? And sometimes I jokingly say, well, I don't, but then I of course, I'm just kidding, I do. But you're exactly right. It's there are there are pluses and minuses, but the pluses ultimately outweigh it or we wouldn't be doing it. Exactly. Yeah. So very cool. Okay, this is the last question. It's the question that we ask everybody. There are no rules. Okay. You can answer it however you like. The question is this what is something that nobody knows? All right. What is something that nobody knows about it. About me or anybody? Anything. It could be anything. Just here's something interesting. So I was actually talking to my uncle this morning, and he is still on the family farm that my great grandparents farmstead did back in 1922. They actually got Century Farm status back in 2022 by the historic society. So that was an original farmstead that my would have been. My great grandfather homesteaded there and my uncle still farming there. Wow. Unfortunately, it's kind of getting surrounded by houses. It's between Meridian and Kuna there. But I was talking to him on the phone and he says, you know, I'm going to be with Zamzows this afternoon. And he said, oh, really? He said, my. So my grandparents and my great uncle used to actually sell feed or seed to Zamzows at their original mill in downtown Meridian. Oh yeah, I love that. It was kind of an interesting I said, well, well, I'll have to maybe bring that up. But yeah, they used to sell barley, wheat seed and alfalfa seed to Zamzows. And supposedly you'll have to ask your dad this. There was a manager there named Bernie, and he used to be great friends with my great uncle who also farmed there. Oh, so you'll have to ask your dad. That's awesome. Well, so I'm guessing that maybe. I don't know if there was another Bernie, but my grandfather's name was Bernie, and he ran the mill for many, many years, so it might have been him. Yeah, but, yeah, he was he was good friends with my great uncle. And supposedly, I guess your dad would have been over to our farmstead and played as kids, so for sure. Anyway, that's incredibly cool. Neat roundabout story. I guess that's the thing about aging that I. That bothers me a little bit. I wish I could go back in time when some of these people were still alive, that I could ask these questions that I didn't know to ask them back then and when, when I could have. And now now I'm learning these things and I can't go back and ask the actual people, but I'll bet my dad knows a few things about that, so I'll have to ask him. That's wonderful. That's a great answer. Yes. Thank you. Thank you for being on the show. I appreciate you being here and thank you for what you're doing. Thank you for, you know, to kind of taking the edge off a whole bunch of people. So that's a really nice thing that you're doing with the products that you sell, but also just for holding up quality and caring about what you do and and being that kind of example example for others. Well, we try, right? Yeah. We try for sure. You are. You're doing it. So thank you. Yeah. Well thanks so much for having me. It's it's been an honor. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. If you enjoyed today's conversation, follow the podcast and leave a review. Next week, we'll hear from another incredible voice shaping the Treasure Valley. And until then, thanks for listening.