Welcome to the Nobody Knows podcast with Callie Zamzow. Join us for conversations with local changemakers and hear the stories that don't always get told. It'll be honest, messy and beautiful. Touching and humorous. Slow down for a glass and pull up a chair. This is the Nobody Knows podcast. Welcome to Nobody Knows. I'm your host, Callie Zamzow, thank you for tuning in. And I'm going to start off with the Zamzows tip of the day. I don't know why I always say that. It's also the tip of the week. It's going to run the whole week. So today's tip is that we are having weaving Zamzows a free reseed and repair class for lawns on April 11th. So this upcoming Saturday at 10 a.m. at all stores and, that's in 2026, in case you're listening, in the future, at the same time that we are teaching you about how to reseed and repair your lawns. We will have a one day sale of things that are applicable to all things. That's the one day thing. So you come to the class, we tell you what you need. You get it at a discount. It's a nice that's a nice thing. So it will include grass seed. It will include soils and also a new product. So this is part of my tip is, I don't know whether you noticed, but our winter was a little dry this last year, which means that the valley is going to have some issues with watering and as thoughtful people in the area, we all will need to be paying attention to our watering this year. And so, it's we're to we're calling this a water conscious, conscious year. So that's what we're that's what we're doing, in case you wondered. So we have three products that actually will help with quite a few, but three in particular that will help in this, I did a time when we're going to be having to not water as much butter plants obviously still need water. So we have wetting agents. This is something that you know, that you can put on the will actually bring the water like have the water break through, hydro hydrophobic situations where the water can actually break through. Okay. Get all technical with you here. Jody's laughing at me. I'm just like when you said agents, I just had something else completely imagined. Like, you guys have a team of agents that come and we do will help you. Yeah, it's a little different. Such a different type of a different type of agent. But you can think that anyway, it's. Or think of them as little helpers that are going to help bring that water into the soil and break through. I love surface okay. Then we also have these super absorbent polymers, which a lot of times you'll see like in a hanging basket. And that's literally like the stuff that is in a diaper that swells. And then it will release the water as it dries out. And that helps to keep water in the soil. But my new favorite thing is a product that we have, that actually helps condense water vapor. So you can't the water vapor isn't quite enough for a plant to be able to utilize, so it attracts the it helps the water vapor kind of get attracted in and then, pull together into full blown droplets so that the roots can use it. So you, you spray it down on your grass or whatever you're trying to add more water to, and then it actually will help to hold water. And it can it can decrease your watering by 50%. And there's science behind this. It's legit. So great stuff. So that will also be a part of this, one day sale as well. So you can try that product out. And that's one of my tip. I hopefully that, that's helpful. And everybody, if you have questions about watering, please come in and talk to us. We have a thousand different things that you can do to to help with that. So preparing for today's podcast, I, I was I was trying to think of things that, that applied and there's a whole bunch and I, I'm going to I'm going to mix a story. I guess the first thing is that I was involved with the Girl Scouts as a little girl. I was I did not make it to the bridging ceremony, but I was a brownie. So if you ever go by, Girl Scout cookies, that they're the ones with the little brown vest on, they're usually a little younger. This was in the early 1980s. I know it hardly seems possible, but, so that was my first, time with the with the Girl Scouts, and I loved it. I absolutely loved it. It was wonderful. I think sports and other things ended up interfering, but, really wonderful. I learned a lot of things. I got to do a lot of cool things. And I remember the first time, like, feeling like I could actually do something that would make a difference in the world. So the very first times of doing that, but then I engaged with the Girl Scouts, about three years ago. And it was when I met a woman named Connie Miller. And we in fact, we hadn't actually met in person yet. We had only talked via zoom because somebody had said, you need to know this woman. So we'd had this conversation. And then for some reason, she decided to invite me to a, an event called Gaslamp, and I, I didn't know anybody. I didn't know anybody at the Girl Scouts yet. I didn't know any and I didn't really know Connie, because we had only met via zoom. But for some reason, I the description then of glam is basically that adult women get to go. And that's at the end of the year at Alice Pittenger camp, the Girl Scout camp up in McCall. And, so after all of the Girl Scouts, the season is over for them. They have a couple of weekends after that that they then let adult women come and we get to stay in the cabins, and they do all of the, you know, you get to you get to learn the little they like. You get to plant a plant and everything that you do, you earn a patch for and you have a sash and you put the patches on your sash and, and and then everything is take care. It's it's, the food is fantastic. It's all catered. It's, you know, wonderful time they have. You can get a massage if you want. That's I mean, it really is a wonderful experience. And in this beautiful camp. And, anyway, I did it on a whim. I ended up making a whole new set of friends that are now these wonderful women that I just adore. And, and now I'm a regular at The Lamp. I just love it. It's so great. So all of that being said, I want to introduce Dr. Angela Hemingway. She is the CEO, CEO of Girl Scouts of Silver Sage Council. Welcome. Awesome. Thank you for having me. And not only did you attend Gaslamp, you're a member of our board as well as I, and I did. Yes, it did, sort of, it led to other things. It evolved, it evolved. And it's been fun to to be involved with it again. It's it's such a good group and, such a worthy cause and I and it's one of those things where you can see, you can actually see things improving and getting back. You see girls and you hear their stories and it's fun. It's it's like a tangible, aspirational. It is inspirational. It's very cool. So okay, before we jump into all of my plethora of questions here for you. Yes. Would you mind just quickly kind of telling us a little history about you and a little about who you are? Yeah, absolutely. Well, again, thank you so much for having me here. And, I'm an Idahoan and native idahoan. I graduated from Borah High. Go Lions. Yep. Got old Borah lions. And so, from there, I had an opportunity to, to go to Boise State University. So I'm also Bronco alumni, so yay! I can do that. And, I really fell in love with, not only microbiology and all of the amazing water and plant discussion that that you kick the show off with. But I had an opportunity to move into teaching. Fell absolutely in love with math and science and had an opportunity to teach not only at Boise State University, but at a variety of schools here. And from there, you know, I moved into State Department of Education leading assessment and accountability, really got really passionate about exams and standards and how we make sure that all kiddos have an opportunity to achieve kind of at an equal level and be able to express that through a variety of different assessments. Luckily, then, Governor Otter, gave me the opportunity to launch his Stem Action Center. And I continue to do that amazing, phenomenal work under Governor Little. And, T-Mobile found me, decided to go from a state level to a national level and was, working as an education advisor, very large team of just phenomenal humans doing really amazing things around, digital inclusivity and making sure that everyone had access to connect. So kind of at the end of Covid, leading some national programing there. And, Joanne Lighty, who is our incoming board chair, her and I got connected on LinkedIn and she said, gosh, we have this position open at the Girl Scouts. And at the time, it was such a phenomenal opportunity to come back and really give my time, talent, my work ethic to Idaho and to a really, you know, impressive, amazing Idaho cause. And I thought, heck, I haven't led a nonprofit but led in the nonprofit sector yet. So let's jump in and give this a try. And then the mission is just absolutely phenomenal. So it's it's been a really amazing next chapter for me. You are, very energetic. This is the I'm really the moment that I met you, I was like, this one has a lot of energy. And not not fake. It's not fake energy. You just are like. It's how you live. This. This is me. You know, some of you have known me a long time. So she's always been this way. Yeah. This is, Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Just incredible athlete and super smart. Oh. Always admired you. Still do. Thank you, my friend. It's love fest in here. I love it. Okay, so, Why so, I mean, gosh, so that's a lot of different things that you just listed off and different areas and different. So what made this particular role feel like the right next chapter? Well, I think for me, it was really that opportunity to combine my passion for service, my passion for education, and then that community building component all into a single role. So it felt as if it was the kind of the culmination of everything I've sort of done individually now, coming back into a single role. And again, the mission to build girls of courage, confidence and character who make the world a better place. Wow. I mean, that just really resonated with me. And having the opportunity to do it, to lead it, to be part of this mission, absolutely phenomenal. Yeah, yeah yeah, it seems like such a good fit. It really is. So what what do you think? At least so far. And so because it's been it's been over a year now, right, that you've been out ten months. Okay. So not quite a year. Not quite a year. Yeah. All right. What is different about so far leading a nonprofit versus the other things that you've led I think well with this it's certainly the mission. Right. So every single day the mission literally walks in to the office, right? This adorable seven year old brownie who's got so much life ahead of her. And so with that, you know, I think the the passion that I find here is that we don't just give girls the traits of courage, confidence and character. We actually believe that the girls already have that strength and that passion and that power within them, and we just want to provide them opportunities so that they can grow, enhance, learn, you know, become that woman they're going to be in the future. And I just that is, that is just it's unbelievable. It's not only humbling, it's exhilarating and truly magical that there's an opportunity that exists for these young girls to be able to really see, harness and reach their potential and leading that charge. Amazing. Truly. See, you're the right person for that job because I it makes me a little bit scared. I'm just thinking about being in your shoes. And, which brings me to my next question. Things have changed, and things are different for girls now than they were. Call it 1982. I'm just throwing out a number out there. So what what are some of those differences and what are some of the things that you, that you're thinking about as you lead this, this group? Yeah, that's very true. Right? I mean, girls now have 24, seven access to more information than they can possibly process, right? So they have this access, they are feeling more pressure to brand themselves and to put themselves out there and to put themselves online. And they perhaps some of them are in, living in a world that maybe feels a little unsettled to them. So, you know, I think that it's such a different time and social media and all the connections and networking and networking that they have access to is so incredibly different. But, you know, the thing that's really blown me away is that these young ladies are grown, growing up in a time where they're much more socially aware, where they're more inclusive, more compassionate, where they're really more globally minded than any generation ever before them. So when we think of these young leaders, they're not there. No longer are they the loudest or the most popular, individuals, they see leadership as collaboration is kindness, as empathy and as advocacy. And they are really defining what it means to be a leader, you know, in this new era of of technology. I love hearing that. Because I think that, growing up as a woman, I, I as it turns out, I had this experience and I, I think about there is kind of a, a part of our lives that can be very challenging as a girl. And part of it is the interaction of girls between girls. And I love hearing that. Maybe that's shifting a little bit, that this mean girl thing, as I like to call it, is, is maybe lessening because of a general way of of thinking and being as a as the new generation rises I that makes me so happy. We see it and that's what we promote within our programs. Yeah. How do you how do you promote that within the programs? Yeah. That is that is an excellent question. You know, I think a lot of people think about Girl Scout activities. So they think about camp or they think about cookies and, you know, some of these other amazing activities or even these, phenomenal community, community service projects that girls are doing and that that really is the vehicle. But I think the end goal is leadership really giving these, young ladies the opportunity to find out what they're interested in. Some may love Stem, some may love outdoors, some may choose a robotics team and others may choose a horse camp. I mean, it really is all over the map. And again, we want to give these girls the opportunity and the theme that we really are learning model that we really drive after is to first discover, you know, identify the problem, what is it you want to learn and then connect and then take action. Right? So we really want them to have this opportunity to, to learn along the way, to fail to be in a safe environment, certainly with other girls and with supportive leaders, both male and female. We've got moms, dads, cousins, entire families involved in Girl Scouts. And in fact, we have four generations of Girl Scouts currently involved in our organization. And so giving these girls really a safe space to be able to learn, to explore, to experiment and to find that inner strength and bring that forth to reach her potential. So great. I was just writing down, both discover and fail because I feel like as a kid, I think that while while I think things were different back then because discover for me as a kid was we would literally be riding bikes around the neighborhood, and you just never knew what you were going to run into. And I was I was the youngest and I was the only girl. So, I was discovering all sorts of things that I probably shouldn't have had with all those boys, but I but I think that that is one of the things that, maybe has, has gone away a little bit with electronics is. And so I love the thought that what your group is doing is, is helping girls to discover, truly discover from their heart not because something was shoved at them or because they saw it on TikTok or whatever, but because they truly are like, ooh, that's interesting. They're choosing it. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Which is a huge difference than it be they're being forced on you or just shove down your throat or whatever else, you know. Right. Instead of being just consumers, they are literally creating experiences, creating opportunities. I think you see it when you're out there at one of the cookie booths. I mean, these are little entrepreneurs that are out there pitching their cookies. And, I mean, it is phenomenal. I've had a chance to visit some of these booths and these young, young girls that maybe last year were the brownie that was so shy, and now they're out there. Hey, I got a five for five sale. Come on in. Oh, you want to support the troops? Operation cookies. A great way to donate. I mean, the pitches they have. And it's not just the pictures, because as I visit those cookie booths, I always ask them, what are your goals here? What are you doing? And to hear that maybe they want to go to an angel or a micron's Stem camp. Those are something new that we brought in or I mentioned the horse camp. Some of them have phenomenal community service projects they're doing for the, you know, the women's shelter and, you know, different animal organizations, the Humane Society, veterans. It is just amazing what these girls are, are doing, how they're thinking forward and just the compassion and the mentality they have to give back. That's so great. So the other word that I wrote down was fail. Yeah. And I think that that was another thing that that wasn't done. Well, maybe in my generation, failure was we tried to avoided at all costs like that, a failure was and this is going to sound stupid, but a failure. Yeah. So I was like, not it wasn't okay. There wasn't a oh, you fail up kind of a thing. You know, you're going to you're it's good. It's actually a really good thing to try something out and realize, oh, that didn't work out the way I wanted it to, and then reframe it and either start over or keep working at it or. But I think that was definitely something in my growing up where failure was. There was no way at all that failure was okay ever for me. Right. And I think that's one thing I know I grew up with being told to behave shockingly, and I have now spun that around instead of behave. Let's be brave, right? Let's be curious. Let's take chances. Let's know that failure is part of the pathway to an even bigger success. Failure is innovation. I think you've all heard the yeah, 10,000 times and the light bulb wasn't working, and it was that one time that it worked. And here we are sitting with lights and power. And so again, failure is just a pathway to innovation. And I think we can give our girls safe spaces to fail. And then to, to find out how to adjust and continue to move forward. So instead of being hey, let's be brave, I love that. That's great. I got to remember, how do you then structure Girl Scouts so that you are supporting that and helping to build that courage, courage and leadership and, you know, instead of like, I guess I think sometimes people think it's just a bunch of activities, right? And it's not a bunch of activities. It's a they're all on purpose. So how do you create that framework? Well, I think, you know, again, it a lot of that takes the support of our volunteers. So we have an absolutely phenomenal volunteer base. And again giving them the tools, training, resources they need to be able to help these girls achieve their badges. Again, you got to remember Girl Scouts, girl lead. So, my second day on the job that one of the troops was actually trying to earn their leadership badge and they had to have a, a panel. So they pulled together a panel of of leaders. I was there, Boise City Council, Meredith was there as well. So I'm sitting on this panel with mostly brownies and one girl. Again, I'm two days on the job. She goes, why did they pick you out of all the other people to be our CEO? Again? Toughest question I've ever had, she said. She is looking at me and she's got her finger pointed at me. And again, it's those types of opportunities. She had the confidence to be in that room with her peers, with our amazing volunteers to ask me those types of questions. And, it's just absolutely amazing. So the combination of the volunteers, the wonderful programing, we have the girl choice to decide what badges, what patches they want to earn, what activities they want to be involved in, how they want to, you know, spend their cookie proceeds. It really is. It's girl led, it's girl choice. And we are giving them these opportunities to try to fail, to lead, to learn, to lean in and to try again. It's it's just it's just an amazing program. Yeah. It really is. So I guess for somebody who doesn't know anything about Girl Scouts, could you just kind of do a high level? The process if a kid, I think how young can they start and how do they kind of make their way up their progression. Yeah. That. Yeah, absolutely. So we start with our littlest daisies and those are kindergartners. And we go all the way through through high school so, so through 12th grade. And we actually now have that amazing alumni group that has started that, like I said, has multi generations of Girl Scouts involved in that alumni network. So I think Girl Scouting is truly a way of life. It's a way of life not only for that young lady, but also for her family. And so through that, there are a variety of different badges, patches, activities that they can participate in. We essentially have four stem or four pillars. One of those pillars is stem. So we have a lot of badges that are tied into Stem. Everything from movie making clear up to robotics, coding, computer science, forensics, lots of different stem badges that that these kiddos can earn. Right. So so that's one of our pillars. We also have life skills and leadership and those really again, life skills how to how to live out the save the wilderness. We do have a high adventure camp where girls spend a week or two living literally out in tents in the wilderness and learning how to cook over a fire. And I mean, it is it is a phenomenal opportunity. So life skills and leadership and leadership goes clear through girls earning their bronze, silver and gold award. So if you are familiar with Boy Scouts, there's the Eagle Scout Award. And and Girl Scouts, it's the Gold Award. It is the top award that a girl can earn. It actually helps get them, into increased levels should they choose to go into the military. It also counts as their senior project. If they do it, their senior year. Those, requirements are above and beyond what's required for Idaho's senior project. So girls can leverage a gold award while also, earning their, senior project. Wow. That's as well. So we have, life skills and leadership. We have Stem, we have outdoor education. And again, that's all of our different camps are amazing water camp that we have up in McCall. And then our phenomenal horse camp and the kind of high adventure camp that we have in eastern Idaho outside of Swan Valley. And then lastly, we've got our entrepreneurship program. And I think a lot of people, they walk out of a store and they see cookies. What I see is I see financial and digital literacy. So they are swiping cards and they are setting up their websites and they are selling online and selling to friends, but they're also selling out there. They are learning business ethics. So, customer service and how to talk to customers, they're learning those sales pitches and confidence. And how do you tweak it just a little bit to get that customer to get just a couple more boxes of cookies? Because again, these girls have goals. They are goal setting. How many boxes of cookies do I have to sell to get to horse camp? Doing all that math and those numbers and making decisions on how to get there again? Just phenomenal. Entrepreneurs out there, you know, that are doing amazing things. So between the Stem, the leadership and life skills, the outdoor education, and then of course the entrepreneurship program, it's a top notch program. It really is Girl Scouts. It's pretty amazing. Yeah, it really is. I I'm not even sure I realize that there were so many yeah. Areas to that. That's thank you for breaking that out for me. I appreciate that. Speaking of financial literacy, it's one of the things that my husband and I are, you know, we're we've just recently joined the Idaho Business for education. And, and one of our big things is that we're really, like, hoping that it will be more robust because we have we have a crisis on our hands, especially with young people who, who are just they're debt ridden, you know, they may never be able to dig themselves out of the hole and, not not unless somebody is able to help them, you know, figure out a way and create a plan and take it out of it. I, I think that that aspect is a very, very, very important part of what you do, that you're that these these women, when they are after they've spent some time in the Girl Scouts, have some understanding of that. It's so important. It's so really is. And we've got some great partnerships with banks because every troop has a bank account, and girls know how much money is in there, and they understand how much money they have to spend on a camp. Or, you know, if they want to go into the store, some of them want to buy 3D printers or a new computer or some of these other things that they're using their cookie money for. And so we just want to give them those types of opportunities depending on where their interest is. But it all comes back to financial literacy, financial awareness. How much money do you need to make and therefore how much money do you have to spend? And then watching that in an actual bank account? It's really amazing, an incredibly unique opportunity for these young girls as well as their families. Yeah. It's tangible. I think there's a it's really hard to learn all of that stuff when somebody is just throwing numbers at you and you know, you're on a piece of paper. Yeah, you got fake monopoly money and you're just like, you know, not not necessarily taking it seriously. These girls are taking it very seriously. Yeah, yeah, it connects the dots in a lot of different ways. It's. Yeah, it's really good. I, at Gallup, you always have a, one of the. And I think they're all seniors or something in high school, but they come and they speak to us and kind of tell us about their journey. I haven't listened to one yet that I wasn't. And number one didn't cry a little bit. Yeah. It's that's so inspirational. And some of the things that they have been able to work through on their own is I mean it's on aspiring. It's a safe space. Yeah, absolutely. And on top of it, I cannot believe all the things that they have accomplished. I know, like I'm like when I was a senior I was not doing any of this stuff. It's I got a huge head start. They have. Well, and you might be surprised how many skills you actually took with you as a brownie that actually carried you through to now. So even being a Girl Scout alumni, the skills they pick up, they it stays with them. They, internalize them and they come out in all these amazing and unique ways. Yeah. I think the biggest thing for me during that time was was just working together with other people, and in this case it was other girls. But but just, just learning how to do that, you know, regardless of what project we were working on or what we did, we were doing that was such a such a helpful thing for me. Definitely, definitely worth doing. Yeah. What, what responsibility do adults have in shaping the next generation of girls? Do you think it's that our responsibility? Well, hitting. Not only is it a huge responsibility, I think it also it's it's a tremendous an immense privilege, right, for us to be able to be the role models that they're looking up to. Right. So we truly as women leaders, we set the kind of the tone for what girls aspire to become. And again, that's that's hugely humbling. But they watch us, they watch how we handle setbacks. They watch how we talk with one another. And even more importantly, sometimes they watch how we talk about others when those people aren't in the room. So we truly are the role models, upon which they will kind of learn to lead and learn how to treat not only other women, but other men as well. And so for me, you know, if we create that safe, supportive space where girls feel empowered and they have women and men, male leaders in front of them that, resonate with them, I think it's just it's phenomenal. Again, tremendous responsibility. But we're the leaders they're looking up to, and we are the leaders that they are going to emulate as they continue to grow. I find you I don't know if I can. This is quite right. But, I find you a tangible leader. You feel to me like somebody who's very approachable. You're right in the mix of it. You're not sitting up on a pedestal leading from above. You are right in the middle of it. And you're a, delightful personality. So it's. I would find I'm trying to imagine from the perspective of a, a Girl Scout with you as the leader, how what a wonderful experience that would be to see somebody who is confident and capable and getting stuff done, but also super approachable. You'll throw your head back and laugh at things. You're very quick to laugh, you know, it's it's I what a what a lovely leader for this particular group. I just, I find you to be just the perfect leader. It's, you know, knowing, like I said, that we are the role models for this future generation. And if, you know, if if I can kind of embody some of those traits and there are certain characteristics that, you know, I, as a leader have come to understand that, that I have in myself and that I try to emulate and and share with my team. You know, one of those is I try to listen more than I talk. I'm wickedly curious. I if I don't know and I don't understand, I'm willing to let others kind of teach me and lead me. I am new to the Girl Scout movement myself, and so I've had a lot to learn, and I have a lot to learn from the phenomenal team, as well as all the volunteers as well as the girls, trying to be honest and transparent. I mean, I wouldn't know how to be really any other way. And so that's really important. And then there's just there's a lot of change going on. So how can you be flexible in your thinking but really show up every day? And that's the first thing. When I wake up in the morning, I think about my team. I have some sort of thought in my head, or a quote or some sort of daily inspiration. And first thing in the morning, I toss that into our huddle chat and just let let them know I'm thinking about you. You matter. And then at night before I go to bed, I just close my eyes for a moment and I say thank you. Just like, thank you for giving me this opportunity because it really it feels so special and so empowering and so humbling. That just again, thank you for for this opportunity. And so I think living and leaning into gratitude and being authentic about it, it really it's who I am. It's who I've always been. And so for me, it just it's really natural. And again, just really fortunate to be leading an amazing team of of Girl Scout leaders and volunteers. And then, of course, all the girls and their families. Well, let's talk about the volunteers because there are a lot 1800 volunteers and growing. That is it's mind boggling to me to think about it. And it's not, 1800 volunteers all right. Here, there across a region. So because how far does the Silver Age Council have, how it stretches kind of a big territory, correct? Yes. So we essentially from Ontario clear out to a little bit of Wyoming down to Duck Valley. And then so anything in the mountain time zone here in Idaho. So yeah, it is a it's a large territory. Yeah. So you've had so these 1800 volunteers are spread across this and and so what what are there is there anything that you're seeing in the volunteer culture right now that's different than previously? Yeah. Other volunteers doing. Well, I think one thing we need to keep in mind, certainly volunteering is in the DNA of Idahoans. It's something we're doing, something we're passionate about. But they don't want just transactional volunteerism. They want transformational volunteerism. So they really want to know that their time and talent and skills are making a difference. They want to be able to see that, and they want it to be tangible and to be able to work with it with a troop and see where they started. As daisies. And then 2 or 3 years later, to see the the confidence that these young ladies are having, the curiosity that they're showing the kindness and compassion. Again, I really feel our volunteers get an opportunity to see that transformational volunteerism in action. And that's what I'm I'm hearing volunteers want. They just don't want to show up for one event or one activity and, you know, host a table and then be on their way. They want to be embedded and they want to see the change and feel the change that they are also driving forward. So it's it's really awesome. It seems like, an interesting challenge because I would imagine that quite a few of these volunteers are their parents of of girls that are in the Girl Scout Scout girl Scouts, which means that number one, they're they're from all walks of life, with all sorts of different backgrounds, with all different perspectives. And they've got one or 2 or 5 particular people that are involved with it that they love. So there's passion involved with particularly that involved. Yeah. So that's got to be an interesting it's kind of an interesting part of your job. Kind of juggling that because you are a listener, because you are somebody. How do you do that? How do you how do you manage? I mean, I guess you have helpers, but how do you manage that part of it? Well, I think it's it's similar to leading a team. And I know you and I have both had an opportunity to lead large teams, both in the corporate world and for me, in the government world and now in nonprofit. And so, again, it's it's helping people one see their strengths. But to see how aligned they are, even if two people think they're incredibly different, I always look for that one thing or that one spark or something that they'll be like, yeah, we've got that in common and then oftentimes are off and running. But and I'm also willing to step in and mediate and talk and have those difficult conversations. I'm certainly not one to shy away from that. So you were invited a couple people down and say, let's talk this through and let's figure this out and let's figure out how we can, you know, put that in the past and move forward. I'm a big believer in that kind of philosophy, that the windshield of our car is very big, and that's the future. That's where we're headed. But you still have this rearview mirror to to look into. It's small though, and you look back and you you do. You don't want to forget the past, but you're not dwelling on the past. You're looking out that large windshield and pushing forward. And so that's how I work with my team, with our volunteers. Let's find something we have in common and let's, you know, really try to move forward from anything that, you know, might be causing a riff. I know, easier said than done, but certainly I believe it's possible. I also am one that can compartmentalize, put things in little boxes and, you know, not ruminate on them and just continue to move us forward again. I think we talked a little bit about failure, but when I fail, I don't take it personally. It's not me as a failure. It's I failed at this one activity. I fell off the bike, I got back up and I started riding it again. Right. And so I think it's even thinking through those types of things, how do we adjust and admit that, you know, this failed, but I can improve and move forward and I'm not taking it personal. And that's another thing too, is I don't take a lot of stuff personal. And my team, they get so sick of me hearing this. But I say feedback is a gift. Let someone give me feedback. Not everyone is great at delivering feedback, but I want to be great at receiving feedback. Filled that right? So so you know, and taking that with a grain of salt that someone is kind enough to come forward and give me some feedback on how I can improve in any area. I'm always willing to listen to that. It doesn't mean I'll be able to do it or, you know, think it's the best path forward, but I'm willing to listen and take that feedback because it truly is a gift. Yeah, you and I share that. I'm the same way. In fact, I that as I kind of worked my way up through the family business, you get less and less feedback because people are less and less willing. They, you know, gets scarier. Right to to. And now at this point, I will openly ask for it. I've talked the other day and it was a we had a general meeting, and at the end of it I wanted to hear from each one. If there was one thing you could change about this company to make it better, what would it be? And and I was like, they're probably not going to, but man, they if I ask them, they were all about sharing it. And and it's such a huge gift. But I think that that I think there's a curiosity part of that too. If you are not somebody, you have to genuinely want to lean in and try to understand it. If somebody is giving you feedback, if you are like giving your feedback, but then you really just want to put it in a box and ignore it, then you're right. Then they'll stop giving you feedback. Well, and to your point, I actually, just a couple couple months ago, I ran out an anonymous CEO survey had 20 questions on a Likert scale on how I'm doing, how my leadership is, all of these questions, and then some long answer questions. They could put ideas in there. And again, I thank them every day. And I read through those and I'm like, okay, they think I'm doing this well really mission aligned. But here's the areas they're suggesting I can improve. And, you know, I just I value that so much. And the fact that the team took the time to give me feedback, I mean, I love it because then I can continue to grow as their leader, get better in my role, become a better servant for the girls and their families. Truly feedback is a gift and I just I appreciate it every day. Yeah. What is the element inside of you? If we were, if we were to talk to somebody who's listening right now who's like, I can't, I just can't like somebody gives me feedback and I just shut down and I don't know what to do with myself, and I want to crawl in a ball and cry. What is that? Because I'm not sure that I think you and I share that, but I, I don't know, I don't think I know what that is. It's always been curiosity. Like, I'm genuinely curious about what other people are thinking and, and perceptions and all of that. And it again, their perception is their reality may not be mine, but I'm just wickedly curious. And that's why I became a scientist. And I just I'm really curious. And and I also don't take a lot of stuff personal because very rarely, you know, to someone come at me personally, it's more of kind of a, hey, have you thought about this? Or you could improve here. Maybe we should try this. It's, you know, but even those personal attacks, I'm like, yeah, someone's having a bad day, right? You know, I mean, it doesn't it just I it's just something that I don't take a lot of things really personally. And I'm wickedly curious. Yeah, genuinely wickedly curious. And I think when you're open to it, people then present it to you in a way that isn't isn't quite as hard sometimes. Yeah. That's true. That's that's fair, that's fair. But even then I don't I will spend some time being curious about that. Like I wonder, I wonder what happened that they felt like attacking me made sense. And so even then I try to get curious about it and you know. Exactly. And you have to be willing to kind of show the messiness. So right now we're working on our, 2030 strategic plans. We're building out our vision of the future, and it's messy and it's ugly and it's not well thought out. And there's arrows and lines and stuff everywhere in the presentation. But being willing to say just kind of where my mind is and this is what I'm thinking. So even getting rather than waiting 2 or 3 months to present a perfect product and have people go, oh, wow, like we're presenting things that are that are messy and not complete, and trying to get feedback early in the process to really get buy in and in fact, I meet with Connie, tomorrow. So and she's going to take a look at a project I'm working on. It's in the really early phases, but I really need some feedback. So I think, again, getting getting that feedback, getting them involved in the decision making process rather than coming and saying this is the decision, being willing to say, this is what I'm thinking about and kind of the direction I'm you know, thinking we could head and then taking their feedback and figuring out how to kind of weave that in as we, as we build forward. All right. Well, let's talk about building forward as you as you look at the girl Scouts, you know, five years from now, what are what are some of the things that you're, that you're thinking about and, and that your team is kind of, envisioning? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I there's a few things that I have in mind, but I think the biggest thing that I would be driving forward for is for Idahoans to look at the girl Scout program and say it is one of the strongest leadership development programs in our state, and to recognize that, right. So we're still in the phase of awareness for some individuals. I firmly believe we we are I know we are one of those one of the strongest leadership development organizations, but I need other people to feel it, to believe it, to hear it, to see it, to see these young ladies. And so that certainly is, is one thing I'm driving toward. I think also, I want Idaho to be kind of the nationally recognized as a place within the United States where girls have these opportunities to grow, to lead and to thrive. Again, I think it's something we can continue as a state to work on. But for me, these amazing leadership opportunities, of course, I want more girls in the Stem pipeline, want more girls outdoors, want more families involved in, you know, these types of opportunities and girls out there advocating for issues they care about. But at the end of the day, it's our leadership development program and Girl Scouts that is so incredibly powerful. It is it absolutely is. It's awesome. Okay. This is a good moment to take a little ad break here and, acknowledge Zamzows, this episode is brought to you by Zamzows, your local source for garden, pet and planet friendly products, as a thank you to our Nobody Knows listeners, you can use code cookies. Yes. At checkout at Zamzows.com to receive 10% off your online order discount applies automatically and is valid online only and excludes lawn programs, and at this particular offer runs through June 30th of 2026. You can even buy online and pick up store at any of our 12 Treasure Valley locations. So visit Zamzows.com and let's grow something good... nobody knows, like Zamzows. Okay, we're switching gears now. This is the, sharing is caring. Okay, so I call it rapid fire. All right. But, you know, make it what it whatever you want to make of this, you make of it. Okay? So I will ask you the question you answer however you like. Okay. All right. How about a woman leader who shaped you? Doctor? Doctor Linda Clark. Absolutely phenomenal. She was my first superintendent when I taught in the West to school district. And her speech that first day I was there and in teacher training. Phenomenal. Love her. And then, as you know, she was on the state board for a period of time and just amazing, an amazing human. And she taught me, really that leadership isn't about being the loudest. It's about having the vision and the passion and the drive. Amazing. Amazing woman. That's great answer. All right, how about a book or a mindset that is guiding you right now? The book that I'm currently listening to is called Unreasonable Hospitality. Such a good one. Yes. Of that book. So I really love it. Again, how to deliver this top notch customer service service experience. Absolutely phenomenal. But I have kind of the traditional the dare to lead the atomic habits crucial conversation. So those are ones that I speed of trust that I always go back to. But right now I'm I'm doing my second listen through unreasonable hospitality. Amazing book. Okay, so you're a reader and then a reader. Yes. Okay. That's the I always I'm always curious about for you because some people are like read it once and done. That's it. There are some books that only need one. That's true reading. We won't name those on your show, but there are some goodies that we keep coming back to. Yeah, yeah. And then again, when is it interesting that I for me, sometimes I will read a book and if I read it five years later, it's almost like it's a different book, because my life has changed and my perspective has changed. And I'm like, oh, I didn't even get this the first time around. I think, you know, I wonder sometimes if I just am not paying attention when I'm reading. That happens to depending upon if I'm, you know, sleepy or something. Okay. How about a Boise place that recharges you? This was a tough one because I am a Sawtooth Mountain girl, so anywhere I can be on the trail, dirty, dusty, working hard, I just. I love it. And for me, it's it's always been the Sawtooth Mountains. I know that's a little outside of Boise. Take it. I think that's great. Any hikes in the foothills are also phenomenal and gorgeous. Just to be on the trail where, you know, you can kind of let go of things and it's a journey, you know, that you're going through one step after another. It helps just settle my mind and gets me just really focused. So, yeah, get me outside on a trail. So can I just digress for half a moment? It's your show horse. I one of the glams you, one of the auction items was to go on a hike with you, right? And I so wanted to bid on it, but I was so intimidated by the thought because you were taught you were like, you know, you'll need a that you'll need your backpack because we're going to be backpacking into the backwoods and like, we'll be off the grid. And I'm like, I don't think I'm gonna throw my paddle up for this one. So I so how are how long are those when you go on them? Are they, are they like a week long or are they like, how long are you off the grid when you go on one of these? Well, I think the good thing now is that, a certain phone carrier for whom I used to work has actually satellite covered. So I'm connected almost everywhere that I go now, at least being able to send a text. Okay. But sometimes they're just a quick one nighter out and back and other times five, six nights on the trail. Depends on, you know, the weather and the fire situation and everything else. But yeah, I love to be out sleeping in a tent under the stars. The quiet, serene silence. It truly is amazing. It's magical. Idaho's a special place. It's my favorite place to backpack. So just it's amazing, I love it. Another reason why you're the perfect fit to be the CEO of the Girl Scouts. I just love that. Okay, well, so maybe I'll throw my paddle up next time if you do that, I could. We can do an easy one. We'll just go to, We'll just hike table Rock. Okay? All right. Have you came for that? I can do that. Okay. How about a moment recently when you felt hopeful about the next generation? Visit those cookie booths? That, for me, has given me this sense of of hope, of rejuvenation of these young girls that are coming into these leadership roles. They have goals. They are setting goals. They are just they are out there. I leave feeling so joyful and passionate and just uplifted. And our next generation, there's something special. They really are. Yeah, I my favorite booths are the ones where you have a couple of maybe a daisy is out there in the little blue vase. Yes. Yeah. You have a couple of them. Then maybe you have a couple brownies, but then you have, you know, the teenagers. Yes. The tan vest. Yes, yes, yes. Because you get the full you know, you get the, the because the little ones are just kind of running around and they're excited and they grab you by. Yes. Yeah. They have no problem bringing you in booth. It's so cute. But then you do have the conversations with them about, you know, what do you tell me what your goals are, you know, that sort of thing. And and do that. By the way, I think a lot of times people will see a Girl Scout booth and like, oh, they're pushing cookies and they run to the other entrance to try to avoid them. But the truth of the matter is engage with them, ask them questions, ask them what they're doing. It's you will not be sorry. Yeah. And again, if you're not interested in the cookies, donate them to the troops with Operation Cookies. So leave your donation there. The girls still get the same amount in your cookie box of cookies, goes to active duty military or over to the veterans. That's all. Make sure it happens. That's all right. My husband and I a couple of years ago, well, you had given me a VIP badge like, so I could go. So we, we had, I think we had eight of them. So we were going to go to eight different, you know, so we were going around so my husband and I and we had our whole plan together. And by the time we were done, of course, we had purchased a lot of cookies and way more cookies than we needed. We didn't realize that that was an option. So we went to the Dutch brothers that we regularly we frequent. We gave them the cookies and we went to the Starbucks that we sometimes frequent. Anyway, we just went around. We gave yes, we donated them to to people who have been serving and and so absolutely fun. And, you know, spoiler alert, nobody hates that Girl Scout cookies. They're always happy as a clam to get Girl Scout cookies. And people always have a favorite. They're like, which, by the way, do you have a favorite? Well, it was Thin Mint and then our new cookie, the Explore More. Don't you love that name? Explore more. Yeah, yeah. To explore more is now my new favorite. Oh surpassed the Thin Mint. Wow, that's saying some. I don't even know how to feel about that. What's yours? I like the caramel delights. Yeah, they're so good. You got the little bit of a crisp. You got the caramel, you got the chocolate. It's got a local coconut. So good. Delicious. So good. Yeah. Yes. Okay. It's that time to ask the one question I ask all guests. There are no rules. Answer it however you like. So here's a question. What is something that nobody knows? So I am a total 80s New Wave fan. I love it. In fact, driving over here, I was singing in the car to echo in the Bunnymen, Lips Like Sugar, absolutely love 80s, New Way people might think I'm in the car listening to like, leadership podcast. But really it's 80s new wave. So and you know, I think since we're sharing secrets, I will choose camping over spa day. Oh, all the time, no matter what. Room temperature, water. I drink that like it is a personality trait. So that's currently it absorbs better. Yeah. I don't wear anything pink. I love pink on other people, but I choose not to wear it. And I hate, green vegetables. So you can find me. You can find me on a trail. I will not be wearing pink. I won't touch broccoli or kale. And then I will car karaoke to echo and the Bunnymen or any other 80s new wave band. There you go. You are delightful. You are a delightful human. You are a wonderful gift to the to the Boise Valley. Well, to the all of southern Idaho and and extend beyond. Thank you. Well thank you. Yeah. Thanks for all you do as well. Well, thanks. I appreciate you having me too. Yeah, yeah. And I'm loving being a part of your organization and and doing what little part I can do to help. So this is so much. This is great. Okay. Oh, before we sign off, though, how how if they want to learn more about Girl Scouts, how would they wear? What would they go? Absolutely. So we've got our Girl Scouts of Silver Sage website. And there's opportunities on there to be able to volunteer opportunities to be able to donate my contact info, out there, I'm also on LinkedIn. So again, we are always looking for new partners. And for us partnership could mean, time, talent or potentially treasure. We have so many different ways to engage in our organization. Would just love to get connected. If people are curious about the work we do, and how they may be able to lean in and help support and a great group of people. A really welcoming, friendly group. So even if you don't have a kiddo and you just want to if you want to give of yourself, this is a great organization to start with us. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Thank you. Wonderful. Thank you. All right. If you enjoyed today's conversation, follow the podcast and leave a review. Next week we'll hear from another incredible voice shaping the Treasure Valley. And until then, thanks for listening.