Welcome to the Nobody Knows podcast with Callie Zamzow. Join us for conversations with local changemakers and hear the stories that don't always get told. It'll be honest, messy and beautiful. Touching and humorous. Slow down for a glass and pull up a chair. This is the nobody knows podcast. Happy Saint Patrick's day. Welcome to Nobody Knows I'm your host. Callies Zamzow And I like Saint Patrick's Day. It's kind of a it's a good, hopeful sort of time of year. And and we have some fun things going on at make very excited about our guests today. And before I get to that, I want to do a little personal plug. So, Jodi, I, decided to do a piece of watercolor art and put it in the 42nd annual rotunda show that's happening at the Capitol building. You're in it. You're an official artist. Let's not go there. No, it makes me. Makes my palms sweat. I can't even I can't even I can accept sweaty palms. But you are a featured artist. You've made it. You've done it. Okay, let's be honest here. It's the first 75 people who put their name and get to get to be there. So I don't don't hate the player. I hate the game you're in anyway. I hate to support my fellow Idaho water color artists. Please go to the Capitol building. It's in the rotunda. It's, I think the Capitol building is. It's open more hours now that we're out of Covid and all that fun stuff. So you can look it up online. But it goes on now through March 28th. I want to check it out. What did you do? What was your, like, subject? It is a I took a picture of a, brownstone in New York when I was taking my daughter to college that had a red door, and I was captivated by it. I took the picture, and then when I decided to do this, I was like, well, I'm just going to paint that. I mean, I'm going to like, use the picture. And then like, partway through, I'm like, I'm in way over my head here. I cannot do this. Anyway, it's called Red door and I did end up completing it as I don't. I heard somebody tell me recently that you never really complete art. You just abandon it. There's some there's some truth to that. I definitely feel that way. And there are a bunch of, like, when I look at it, even, you know, even now I'm like, I see that I should have done this, I should. And so it's, you know, it's not perfect, but it's just version one. Artist, artist proof number one. There you go. There you go. I don't think I can try to do that one again. It was it was, it was. I was skipping over my tips. What is that. But yeah, I was, I was calling the tips. Yeah, yeah. You outputted the coverage. Yes. There you go. Yes. So, anyway, be kind, but there is a, like a People's Choice award, so you can I'm going to go. You can vote. Yes. You don't have to vote for mine, but vote for the one that you think is is the best. Red door. Sounds great to me. Well, there you go. Also, I wanted to give the Zamzows tip of the day or tip of the week, I guess. And, it is that we are going to have a lawn care college on Saturday the 21st, 2026. Again, if you're in the future. And, we will teach you all sorts of things about lawn care and understanding how to if you have a special little dry area or a problem, you can bring that with you. You can ask our experts and we'll happily help you. There will also be a one day sale. So and it's all things like lawn and you know, sort of products and whatnot. So come on and learn a thing or two, save some money, get yourself started to have the most beautiful lawn in the neighborhood. Okay, I have to tell you, I am so excited for this lead in because, there's going to be at like a moment with you and I, Yeah, here we go. So I live in this neighborhood, and there is a cat in our neighborhood. Oh, yes. And he is a he's a he's a large cat. No. Not fat, very lean. He looks like a leopard. We see him around the neighborhood, and we initially would see him mostly at night. We would see him, like crossing the street. Be like, what was that? We thought it was something, you know, it wasn't a cat. I was just so wild animal like. And he didn't come near us, you know? He. And then we began to find his colors around the neighborhood. Now, I don't think we fully connected the dots that this amazing creature was the same person. Same person. Listen to me. The same cat that was losing his collar. But we would find the collar. And then we quickly learned from the caller that his name was Rudy, and there was a phone number, and we would text and say, we found this collar. We're putting it here for you. We get a nice text back from a lady on the other side saying, oh gosh, that's that's my cat's collar. I'll come get it. And so that went on for a little while. And then we recently saw somebody trying to what we thought we run a walk in the neighborhood, and we thought someone was trying to catch Rudy. And we were giggling to ourselves. We're like, that person is up in the night. If they think they're going to catch that cat because he he does his own thing like he's his own. It's the master of his own universe. And we so we see this lady and and we're like, oh, this woman doesn't know what she. And I kind of thought maybe she's trying to steal him. We weren't sure. So we we come up and it's kind of like, hey, so that's Rudy. And she's like, I'm like, oh, are you, are you Rudy's mom? And she was like, I am. And we were like, oh, the skies parted and my husband and I said, well, hi, we're the ones who find your collar everywhere. And I did not know that I love you. You're the other side. I know I was, I was looking down and I looked up briefly and I was trying to get him and. And you're just like, oh, you're never going. I know I'm not going to get. I'm just going to like, I'm just saying, I'm just saying hi. As he's on his, on his, my neighbor said, oh, he saw Rudy on his way to work today on his his path around the neighborhood. But I usually don't see him when I'm out and about. So I stop to say hi. And so they didn't even I didn't even actually, like, look you in the face, I know. So focus and we and all of our text are all first names and so she doesn't know when are you sure this is the reveal. And I've been so excited to do to be like we're the couple that like and and recently even because he was in your backyard. Yes. You're like, is it okay because they're like. And so we have cameras in our house. And so sometimes you'll say, hey, have you had any Rudy sightings? And we'll look up at the camera. Oh yeah. At 1031 last night, he was, you know, killing a mouse out in our backyard, you know, or whatever. And. Yes. And she'll come over and and and get her cat and bring the cat back home and and everybody. By the way, I should let you know that everybody in the neighborhood knows this cat. It's like the neighborhood owns this cat. We all love him. We're all just amazed by him here. But. But really, he's his own man. Like, you're not going to be. You're not picking him up and like, canoodling with him. He's he's, In fact, the other day, there was a big, big pile of white that we thought was feathers. When we looked up with the cameras, with a little bit of a cat bite, and Rudy kicked the other cat's ass. That's what happens. I'm trying to figure out who he tussles with. There's only one neighbor that can actually put her hands on him. And it was. I can't tell you how many collars and nametags I have, but knowing that. So I going back, I would say that Rudy has taught me a lot about control and or the lack thereof, and just knowing that there's things in the universe that you cannot and should not have control over, and you just have to be okay with it. Yeah. Find your way to balance. I've never had an outdoor cat before, and, he was never going to be an indoor cat. And so I bought hundreds of these collars in the I stopped buying the nametags because. But through that I have got probably 6 or 7 people that when I start to freak out because if he's mad at me, he'll stay away for 3 or 4 days. Usually if I've taken a trip and then I can just, like, text your husband, like, have you seen him? I hate to bother you, but, like. And then sometimes I'll just on a particularly usually if I take like a two week trip which happens very infrequently, then I have to go get him. But there's one neighbor. The very one, the first one it took her a year before she ever heard him meow. And then she said, oh my God, he let me pet him. And she can actually hold him until I get there. And then he looks at her like, you're such a traitor. Traitor? I, I think Clint's very close because he's definitely pet him before. I just think he, I think he he probably could pick him up. He probably would like him, but I think he just tries to like, let him. That is so funny. I just I remember I remember that moment and I kind of looked only sideways and she's like, focus on the cat. Yes. Well and we never exchanged last name. So here's the funny parts. Lest you feel badly about this, I didn't place it together. So I told Clint I'm like, okay. He's like, well, who are the podcast people this week? And so I gave him and he was like, Holy shit. Like what you don't know who that is to you? And I'm like, well, I don't, I cheat and I start reading like all your bio here, which I'm about to read, I will do, I will do you justice here. I apologize for this. I don't know, sometimes it's best just to be known as Rudy's mom, or Addie and Ellie's mom, and that's that's good enough. Yes, I feel that. I feel like anybody who's the one who connected, that's for me, too. And then once we realize that, I'm like, I can't wait to do the movie. I'm like, I hope she doesn't recognize me. It's I was really hoping that that would work out, because I know I also think, you know, you had our, like, walking around the neighborhood. Oh, yes. And Sunday I'm always like, yes, I've got everything. Yeah. That's that's anyway just on behalf of the neighborhood. Thank you. Thank you for having Rudy be a part of our lives. We love that cat like he was our own I it makes me really happy. I've learned a lot about, like I said, control, but also community that I knew. But what seeing it in action in this case has been, It's been really, really nice. Yeah. Our cat does not like Rudy at all. Yeah, I heard, like, Clint told me that. Yeah, he's like, he sent me pictures of the back of your cat staring at you. Rudy. Out the window. She puffs out her tail and looks like a raccoon. When she. When he comes, he just. And he loves. He just walks right up, you know, walk up to the window and, like, look right at her, and she'll just be like, hey, yeah. You cannot be in my backyard. Even I can't be in my backyard. Yeah, she gets very upset, but he's a wonderful mouse or two. He keeps us completely free of mice and squirrels. I hate to say it. Oh, he hasn't gotten any of our squirrels. And he. And he doesn't because we have a lot of birds. He doesn't seem to go for the birds. He likes the mice. I think he's taking the occasional one that he's a downed bird that he might have found, but he's definitely went through a couple summers of heavy squirreling. Yeah, my my, my neighbor to the West really appreciates that because it keeps them out of his cushions. Oh, well, there's that fear. He's just the gift. The gift? The gift of Rudy just keeps on giving. One time, I'll tell you, I put an AirTag on him because someone's like, you should see where he goes. And I said, I don't know if there's some things you don't want to know. Like where your teenager goes at night or where your cat goes because it could be scary. You just have to trust. But I did it once. It lasted half a day. And it is. He lost it on the other side of Orchard. Wow. And that's something I did not want to know. No. That's scary. And I could never find it because it's in someone's backyard, and I just. I'm like, that's something I could have lived without knowing. Yeah. He also goes down and hangs out with the shop. Cat down, the Hillcrest. Oh, yeah. All the maintenance. Yeah. So he goes down there, but, it's quite the swath. He's so great. Maybe on one of my social posts, I'll get a I'll put a picture of him on there so people can see. Because he is a very exotic looking cat. He's pretty and he's massive. Yeah. He's strong. So. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Now I'm going to right now I'm going to pull my stuff here together. So welcome to the show Lori Shandro. She's the co-founder and CFO of Duck Club Entertainment. She's the co-founder and producer of Treefort Music Fest. She's the owner of the Shandro Group, and she's the cultural builder behind one of Boise's biggest movements. And she's Rudy's mom. So please welcome to the studio. Thank you so much for having me. Yes, it's so great to have you. And thank you for letting me just test that out on that story. I've been so excited about it ever since I learned, yeah. So good. Okay, so before we get rolling, why don't why don't we start with, start with that club, and, because there's so much to talk about at this point and tell us kind of how it all began. Well, it's so I met my, I met Adam Chandra when I was living in Seattle, and he grew up here. And I moved to Seattle from San Francisco, where I'd gone to university and got an accounting degree and started working in public accounting. Very exotic. And then I moved up to Seattle, and that's where I met him. And he grew up here, and, he brought me here that summer to meet his mum. And it wasn't it wasn't very long through the weekend before I had decided I wanted to move here. So I applied for a transfer to the accounting office here. That was the same firm that I worked in and let him know. And and told him, I hope he would come with me. So. So I was in 1999. And, the reason I say that is because he, we I ended up starting my insurance business. I was here for less than a year and realized that you don't necessarily we didn't necessarily want to live in Idaho and work the kind of hours that you do in public accounting at that point in time. So I had been in the taxation of insurance company. So that's when I found, the ability to start a brokerage for individuals and families and small businesses back in 2001. And he was, a part of that. And then we had our children and he was, a wonderful stay at home dad. It was just and I ran the business and did my work and loved it. You get to meet a lot of different types of people doing that kind of work. And so but then when they were six and three, he, he passed away. And that just changed, of course, changed our lives. But what at the time he, our kids were old enough where he would, he wanted to combine the things we were interested in. And so he had his, his airplane that he loved to fly. And I was starting to rediscover the ability to discover bands that I wanted to go see. But I noticed that a lot of them weren't coming to Boise. And so he said, okay, let's pick one nearby that you want to see, and then we'll go and we'll see them. And we did that once, and then, then he passed away. And then after that, it just changes your perspective on how far, how you can plan what what is scary, what things are bad. And so I just I say that because about a year later, I met a friend who kind of was feeling the same way that a lot of the bands that we wanted to see that were more up and coming when I was growing up, you, when you wanted to find a band, you turned on the radio and that's all you had. Or you went down to the record store and you leaf through everything. There was just that's what you had. But having the internet and the ability to there was just an endless source of, of artists you could discover. But this friend of mine was getting his MBA and he said the same thing. He's just like, we should, you know, have a venue that really focuses on bringing these bands through town and, and marketing to the people that want to see them. And so he needed an internship for his MBA, and we came up with the idea to make it an internship that I paid for for him to travel around and do some research and figure out what kind of venue could exist here, and how could it be financially sustainable. That would really attract people who wanted to see small, independent, up and coming businesses and bring those artists through town. And so the end of the project, we had this business plan, didn't really have anything to do with it. And drew, my friend, I said, it's up to you, but what do you want to do next? And and the next thing was to maybe try and see if we could put some of the marketing practices in place and book a show of some sort, which of course, we had no idea how to do not, I mean, not even a clue. And so, we I think one of the funnier things that I forget about is I'm like, okay, we pick this band they're going to be in. I can't remember who it is, some small band. They're going to be in Utah around the time. Let's just like, I'm just going to email their agent and see if we can have a show with them here around that time. And it was at the time I didn't realize this, one of the biggest agents at one of the biggest agencies out there, and I had no idea who he was. And he's like, let me give you some advice, you know, no, no band, no agent is going to just book their band with someone who's never done it before because you could just be, you know, booking him for some kid's birthday party that's not really good for their career. Go find someone who knows how to do this and work with them. And, he was very sweet. And so that's when we both together came across, someone in town that we both had known from different angles. Eric Gilbert, who I that was about the same time that Radio Boise had come on line. And I think that was a galvanizing place where I think a lot of people who listened to emerging artists were out there but weren't connected as much by anything, and he had and still has a show on Monday mornings called Antler Crafts, and really focuses on trying to play music from local artists and also artists that are playing in town, so that people become aware of them and go see them. And so and he'd also been in a touring band for a long time with and you toured with Beltsville. And so we both approached Eric from different angles and said, this is kind of we don't know what we're doing. We just have this idea. And, he had the idea for basically trying to get artists from South by Southwest to root here, from where they were already were at the beginning of touring season and have a festival that really highlighted our local talent and, and brought some of those artists through town. Sure. Let's let's try it, put a budget together and see what happens. And it was probably a couple of weeks later where he called me up and he said, we're going to need a bigger parking lot, because if you've ever met Eric Gilbert, you realize that he's he's truly the inspiration behind all of this that has happened. I was just lucky enough to be one part of it and an important part. And so Drew and Eric and and then Megan, we, she was one of our co-founders, too, because she was she was part of the scene and, new marketing. We started to put that first one together and just people came out of the woodwork, and it was just a snowball from there. I'm kind of piecing together, and I, I love how authentic you're being about the fact that this was there was some definite intention there, but you didn't really know what you were doing yet. And so it was about like gathering partners and and then learning, probably like drinking from a firehose. Yeah. I think it was more about, you know, meeting people, that meeting someone that I was in a moment to and I was inspired to pursue an idea. And then we had something and we met somebody else, but we were inspired to continue to follow. And more people joined with their inspirations. And they're they're part of it. It's not something that I don't think you could ever set out to make happen the way it did. It was about time and place and the people in this community that wanted something to happen. And, the ability to join on and make it happen to, to kind of learn something about yourself. Like before doing this, do you have a long history of a whole bunch of things like this that you've done, or is this kind of like, okay, not even a little bit, I, I was I always figured I'd be an employee of a company until I retired with the clock. And that's because that's how I was raised. That's what I saw. And then when I got here as a CPA and a public accounting firm, I thought that was my path. And then I got here. And this community is different from anywhere else I've ever lived as far as and so was Adam showing me a different path for, being able to be a part of a place and do things and connect with people and make change and actually have an effect. As far as where you were and I think what I learned through that and then this accidental project that just snowballed is my, my part of it, I think, was one skill set that was needed that I could apply the kind of the financial, the business planning part, also the problem solving part. So I think through all of that, I learned that I really think I enjoy being a part of a community where we all are pieces, parts of what is needed, and then it's just about figuring out how we can come together. And it's just for me, it's the right size and type of place and moment for those things to happen. Yeah, I all say, yeah. I mean, it's now become, I mean, and in some ways synonymous with the city. I mean, people like I sometimes people know are learning about Boise because of Tre for it. Like it's amazing. And that really that intention. I was something that Eric taught me and taught us, and I was just very grateful and very lucky to have been a part of of where he inspired me, taught me about what's here and the music scene and how it works and how it is an ecosystem and how it is a really important part of a vibrant community, and how it can be developed and how we can have that be here and it be be somebody's meaningful path for living, and they can work in that space. And, and it's really an important part of, of everything that's here, business people wanting to live here. And he was really the inspiration and teaching me of what was possible. And and then we continued to work at making it a reality. So other than we all know about tree for what? What does the day to day of Duck Club look like? Oh, I think you started with the question of Duck Club. That's a duck club. Yeah, I know I didn't. I was going right along with your. I was just flowing. So, glad you remembered. So originally when we were, putting together this business plan for a potential venue, we called it the Duck Club. And that's what brings me back to Adam is after we moved here, he found a love for, bird hunting and or just, you know, birds, space and watching and we had piece of property that, the members of it called Duck Club. And that's where we would go and watch our dog run and chase up birds. And it was really his happy place. And so after he passed and we started to work on this, I thought, well, you know, if this ever comes to be, it would be my happy place. And, and the, my co-founders just honored that name. We made it there was the really the business name, the the wood company that is the company that puts on tree for and that is really the parent of everything is the duck club. Okay. And so it was it became the arm that after the first tree for it worked on bringing artists through town and filling everyone's venues with artists that were coming through town, emerging artists. And so that name, that's where that name came from. And so now that the once the festival took over and drag us down the street for a few years, we just tried to catch up. We got the opportunity with the pandemic to pause. Well, we were forced to have the opportunity. I, I'm just going to say you just said that it's such a lovely way, like So Zen. I mean, it was it was, when you mentioned the CFO of Duck Club and Tree for it. That was a job that I took on, role I took on after the pandemic because of the need to save what we can just fill the hole we called it. We had to cancel that festival like two day, two weeks, ten days before the 2020 festival. And so, you know, anyone who was doing anything in the when the pandemic hit had to lean in to hundred percent to whatever they were doing. So if you're involved in two businesses now, you're, you know, heavily involved. And so the process of figuring out how to, you know, we didn't want to ask artists for the money back or, you know, anyone that we'd paid to get to that point. I mean, that's not and we had to figure out how to work together to get us to the point where we could save it. So there was a lot of work on grant writing and fundraising, but also the pause that it gave us to step back and look at, you know, how can we better organize as this year round team and really create something that, that, is what we've talked about, where it's where somebody can live and work and have a meaningful job and career in the space of live music in, in Boise. And we were we've been talking to, Hendricks, who is a developer, and that had come to town about some various spaces they had about putting out. They wanted us to put a venue in one of them. So we finally were given the opportunity during that time to to build a venue of our own. And so having that and then about a year later, getting the opportunity to take over the Elkhart Shrine because they needed to move out. And that's a venue that we used at really, that time gave us a chance to pause and look at the big picture. We had lots of people working on the festival and pieces, parts, and also working in the promotion side in pieces, parts and having to. But like I said, we've been getting dragged down the street by this thing that took off and with ever really with ever without the opportunity to step back and say, let's look at a bigger picture because we have this moment. And so that's when we created, a year round team that could work on and focus on all of it. And, and really the intent of what all of it could do and be a part of this community. So that's where Duck Club Presents really came into being. Something that is more is more out front, in front of people as opposed to just everyone just thought all we were was tree fort, right. So there's now there's quite a few that. So what are some of the other like so in addition to tree for what are some of the other events that, that you produce. It's produce the right word. Okay. So promote, produce, promote the promotion is a term that when, when an agent calls up and says, we have this artist coming through town, what's the best room? And then, you know, the promoting company books the show in a venue and sells the tickets and does the marketing and puts on the show. And so we started doing that, in right in 2012, right after that first Treefort. And then now we have our own spaces. So now we still we put artists in at the festival. We put them in our own spaces. We still put them in other people's spaces when it's appropriate. But now we have, the music hall, which is an all ages and all ages music space and event space that other promoters can use. And we use it and also for it can be used for private events. But it's important that as many of the spaces that we've created as possible are all ages. And so we work hard to make sure that that would always be something that is accessible for. I mean, if someone who wants to get involved in live music, whether listening to it, discovering it, or putting it on or, being in a band that they shouldn't have to wait until they're 21 to really be part of that community. So as much as as much of what we as as much of what we do as we can, we make all ages. So the tree fort, music hall is all ages. They'll cross shrine, the ballroom upstairs is another space that we and and where we put artists, and that's always all ages. And now we have that, downstairs space in the the shrine, the shrine basement, that we've created for smaller artists to grow through, start and grow through, so all ages. And then, then we have hap hap, which is the, 21 and up indoor outdoor bar that is open. It's kind of just part of the whole business plan, part of the, the building. And so that is accessible from a different door. And we do some small there's a lot of small program, small programing up there like deejays and events that kind of thing. But it's open. It's a bar and lounge. It's open six days a week from four until whenever. So those are our spaces. And, we have the music festival, of course, three for Music Fest for the last in 2020. We did snow for it up at Tamarack, which was a month before Treefort. And then of course, we had to take a bit of a break. And now we've had two snow forts since then and we've got, we've had will have, we've had this will be our third just this first week of March, just past. And so I think those are, those are the main things we did. A flip side fest for two years and that that really came out of, that, that came out of a different kind of a, you know, opportunity in need. And so we put that on pause for now. But we did that for a couple of years in Garden City. And that was that was fun. What is your team like? I'm imagining as you're talking about all these things and you, the way you speak of them, they sound like family. Yeah, absolutely. There I was said when I talked about Treefort in the first many years that most of the people that you're if you're standing in, if you're standing in any crowd in front of a stage, probably half of the people there made it happen in some way, shape or form. As far as like being a sponsor or someone who helped by being a volunteer or, brought food or all of them. Anyways, I think this is one of the things you can't treat for us. You can't really recreate it anywhere else because it really is built by the people in this community. And so as we had people that took leading roles and really kind of led their area of need, whether it be production or the visual design or, volunteer coordinating, those kinds of things. Those are the people that really became the year round team for the club entertainment. And so they have jobs year round, not just what they focus on on the festival. And that's about 22 to 23 people. And, and that's probably not enough for what we do. There are a lean team that works really hard and believes in the the lift of what we've been trying to do, and we feel like we're almost there. It feels like it's almost landed. So that's that's the the solid year round team. And then we have the extended Treefort team. They start coming on maybe in the fall to really kind of do what they do. Like all of the artist hospitality, that's one of the most amazing pieces to me. Steph Coyle has been coordinating that since day one. And really getting everyone in this community to to participate in giving and providing or selling or trading for the hospitality that these artists have come to, to know us by. They they know that they come to Boise in 3 or 4. They're going to get treated with the A-1 Boise hospitality, and they're going to be treated like family and the locals. That's one of those people that is part of the the Treefort team that leads that area. So we probably have about another 30 people like that. And then of course, we have our nearly 800 volunteers that come on and I've talked to a lot of volunteers that said they really don't want to just buy a pass and go to tree for it's meaningful for them to work their shifts to earn their pass and be a part of the festival. So that's a whole nother you can't I, I you those are very special people and someone who can coordinate those people and bring them out and and and set that all up. That's just you can't recreate that. It just has to be where where it is. Yeah. It's extraordinary. I think about that, that many people who. Yeah. And and with knock on wood with so few problems and and I think because and I'm, I would say my job is to lay awake at night and worry about, hey, that's my job. I know me awake at night and worry about all the things that can happen. And there's been so little of that because I think that this community feels like they own and are responsible for everything that happens during the festival or, or they know someone who is. And, so the intent, I feel like the intention is just of what everyone here and or what we're trying to do and the intention, I think, is felt and known by the people that are intending or attending the events or attending the festival. They I just I think that's what really makes it, go as well as it does. Yeah. It really is extraordinary. I'm wondering if you could go back and talk to yourself. The who is at the beginning of this journey. What would you what what word of encouragement? What thing would you tell yourself that like you'll be surprised about this, but this is this will happen or this is how you might feel or what what would you what would you say to your younger self? I would, I would say, you're right to trust your gut. And this feeling that you're following that it feels like there's no choice. And and I know you're tired, but but you you're not crazy. You're right to follow this. Wow. That's great. That's true for so many things. And I so many times we do override that voice. And I think that that moment that I was in that I talked about when something major happens, I think that opened up just a different way of thinking. And in that moment, I was that's that's really was part of it. And it just I just followed it and, and it felt right. And so I think I would tell myself that, you know, I, I didn't really feel like I had a choice or it was a decision. I just felt very lucky and also, like, it was just the right thing to do. Well, thank you on behalf of Boise for following your gut and for the sleepless nights and for all the effort that you put on, because it really has been it's changed the city. It's you will forever have left a, a something permanent with the city that, that this, that music is a part of who we are. And I think maybe it was something that was there always. But we needed somebody to lead us and and help us figure out that, that needed to be a more of a heart or a or a lot of someones. And that's really when I go back to that moment. It was a moment in time with the people who were there. That all came together in a way that really for a long time people were saying, are you going to do this in another place? And I just kind of like, first of all, no. Super tired. And I still have my day job. Second of all, you know, and I'm a single parent and but also, you just can't you couldn't. It was a moment in time that I feel like a lot of us were lucky to be a part of and continue to be a part of. Yeah. So you also run the Shandra group? Yes. And, so can you tell us a little bit about that and, Yeah. What do you do? I love my day job. It's been as someone who's been doing it now for 26 years, I is that I think what I did before in working in taxes was really trying to help a, help people with a scary thing and make it less scary. And, and that's really what I do with health insurance and benefits. And I my passion is working for a small startup employee, the self-employed business and I it's not insurance that and when you go to what do you want to be when you grow up? It's not anything to do with insurance. What you come to learn, at least what I came to learn is, what I love about what I do are all the people that I get to help and be a part of their business. They start from I've had businesses that go from 2 to 200 and then back down to 50 and then, you know, get bought or 2 to 20 and then back down to a bunch of individual policies and, and I've watched people navigate challenges and have kids and I watch them grow up and just being a meaningful part of these people's journeys, because health insurance is not it's it is not good. It's not I mean, it's our system isn't is is confusing. It's only got more confusing. It's hard. And it's a really big, scary, important topic. And so I, have always loved my day job. And so, that's sometimes I'll go into an employee meeting and over the past few years and someone first introduced me as the person who started Treefort. And I just feel like but I, I'm really good at what I do that I'm here to do like it. I know that's confusing. How can you be doing that? And then still, you know, do a good job of helping me with my health insurance issues and problems. And that was always an awkward moment for me. I know that they were trying to be like, nice and be proud of something else that I did. But yeah, I got, it was really tiring doing both of those things at the same time. Yeah. And, that was it. Did. I do feel like I missed a lot of the cool opportunities that we even created. I just to not look up and spend more time with the people in those moments and remember, you know, staying for the whole set or being part of that whole experience because I was still, you know, do you know, full time running my business that that's what paid my bills and it still does. And I'm really grateful to have had the opportunity to have done that kind of work. And for so long, with so many special people in this community. Can we talk a little bit about because I think I certainly didn't know until I got into the family businesses, and I realized the insurance component of it as as an employer who has a benefits package, I, I it was like drinking from a fire hose. I had no idea how difficult that is. And we and every single year we have to revisit it. You know whose prices went up, who's went down, who's got something different? Oh, the plan change. It's exactly the same. Except for guess what? Not this anymore. I mean, there's so many different moving parts. That's why people like you and companies like yours are so helpful. Because for businesses who, you know, our our job isn't to understand insurance. Except for that we got to kind of you've got to have somebody there is going to partner with us to help us if we're going to offer that for our employees. So let me talk a little bit about, yeah, just the calamity that is insurance for businesses and employees and especially for small business. And if, if you really look at health care is health care is expensive in this country for everybody, it's just for everybody. It's just a question of who is who is paying more or less for it. If you work for a large employer, they have a different way where they can spread care costs. And if you work for if you somehow get your insurance or your coverage through some sort of governmental agency or program, that's another way. But the small employer, and the entrepreneur, I really feel like for every change that I've seen, that when the Affordable Care Act came on even before then, they really pay the most for the least coverage and it's the most difficult. And so I think that's one of the reasons that I've always been so passionate about trying to help them understand the, the landscape and figure out what they can, how they can make the most and get the most for their team out of the way it exists because it's it's always fallen unfairly on the small employer. And so yeah. Yeah. And and also all the small employers don't have HR departments. They don't usually the person that I'm dealing with is also the person that changes the toilet paper in the printer, in the toner. And you know, there. So we have really tried to be that HR arm for the the really small employer and a lot of brokers, brokers, brokerages, agencies would just rather deal with the one larger employer. But I really, really love being being able to be a partner and kind of like the air wing for a lot of these small businesses, because it is complicated and it's a lot of money. And the nice thing about small employer and family policies is that the cost of the policy, having someone help you, is already built into the cost. You just have to choose the person you want to help you with it. They're all the same. Policies are all the same from the companies and the carriers and the rates are the same and they're pretty much set. So I like being being able to take that and, really help make, make a small employer make make their jobs easier. And, and then when you put those benefits in place, making sure that people know who work, they're not to spend their time spinning our wheels on this thing because it's hard to reach out and call us and let us help them throughout the year. And we've been doing that for the people on my team have been doing that for 20 or more years. Pretty much everybody, and they know more than most of the people. You'll get any of the people you get on the phone when you call one of the insurance companies, especially through the pandemic, there was a lot of turnover. And so the frustration that comes with that from a business owners perspective, trying to get something fixed that went wrong or from an employee's perspective or one of their family members when they're trying to get something paid for the way it should be or plan it the way it should be. That's really where I love the experience that we've built and the ability and it really is able to we're really able to help people with something that is not ideal, and it is expensive and it is scary. At least we can one of my, agents partners that I worked with for many years, Lindsay, she's she's so inspiring because she's really working on trying to change the way things are now. And, and I'm just I'm there to help and support, but also, I feel passionate about helping people get the most out of the way things are right now. Yeah, I think they're both are helpful. Yeah. Just a reality you have to face. And and then there's also the well could we change it. Yeah. So yeah I think there's this is broken. How can we at least fix one little part of it. And that's that's a huge lift. Yeah. So what kind of a leader are you like what? But what's your style? What's your, Are you a hands you right in the middle of it all and you're like, yeah, I'm a doer. Yeah. And I'm a and I'm a very much a collaborative leader. I don't have I have a hard time saying, okay, everyone, we've talked about this for long enough. I'm the boss and this is just what we're going to do, right? And if it's if everybody's not on board and part of it doesn't feel right. So I feel like I'm very collaborative and I always feel like I should be able to push every button that anyone else is required to push, or I it drives me crazy when I don't understand how every part of something works, even if that part of it's not my job. So I've been called a doer and a collaborator. I just reach in and do something and pull it apart and help understand it. So that way I can have a better, bigger picture view on why things are the way they are and what to do about it. It's lovely. Yeah. That's that's that's good leadership right there. Very good. Okay. So we're we're just we're what are you a week out from today for it. Yeah. Yeah. So at the time this is the time of year where I actually let myself start looking ahead at the weather. I think there are parts of there are people on our team that start trying to magic ball and, and, you know, call their friend at NOAA and figure out what's going to happen. And I don't I just can't it's a but this is the time of year where we're just where you can actually start looking ahead. And it's still going to is Idaho still going to change every day? You could be standing in the snow and and I'll tell you, it's funny, right. Especially especially here in Shreveport. Yeah. But this is the time of year I actually let myself look for that close. Yeah. Okay. So if people wanted to like, if they're like, what's this tree fort thing? I've never heard of this before. I still meet those people. Do you? That's great. That's, that's that means you're still reaching new, new people. So for those people, how do they get tickets? What are they? Well, and what can they expect? Like, as far as. Yeah, I my team hates it when I say this, but I think it's overwhelming for a lot of people. Because it's a lot. There's a lot. It's so many people have been over the years and continuously creating different sub programing within the programing in different spaces. I mean, I can't even count how many spaces in the city are activated during tree for, for different things. So it's a lot. I acknowledge that you can one of the things that changed about three years ago is we moved the main stage from downtown on basically 13th and growth. There are no more parking lots anymore to be had. So we move the main stage to Julia Davis Park. And with that really shifted the, the ability to have a festival where you could just go for one full day in the park. So we've we've really leaned into that. So if you want to dip your toe in and you want to just been wonderful weekend day or wonderful Friday, you you can just stay in the park and you can do that kind of tree for it. Or you can wander around and just pop into venues and you can pay at the door if you want. It's a festival of discovery. So, you know, usually the things that people find that were their favorite thing, where the thing they found on the way to the other thing they were trying to go to, and so awesome. And we do have a really amazing app pretty early on as a project. A couple of folks, who are now part of a founded a company called Dionysus, started to make like we needed they had their spreadsheets and like, we need an app for figuring out, like, where the lines are long and what's what are our friends going to and what's happening at what time of day. And and now this app can tell you I have this gap in my schedule. Tell me what's in this gap? I mean, it's it's we have an amazing app and you can download that for free and you can share your schedules with your friends. That's another way to approach it. But you can just show up anywhere downtown and start wandering around. There's a lot that you can do for free. But, if you if you wanted to do the full five day pass that gets you everything, there's I would say the travel expert are the ones that really know that there's the main stage, but also they know which venues are their favorites. And the five day pass gets you access to everything and all of that. And that's a pretty hardcore, awesome group of people that that they've been doing that for. At 13, 14 years now. And I lost count. That's like they, they buy that because they know they're going to jump in and out of all of the venues downtown and the main stage, but with with the main stage being moved to the park, it's a much bigger space. There's ale for it. That's where that's located. You can just go to ale for it, for free and listen to music from afar. So there's lots of ways to approach it from the side and just check it out. But if you do buy a one day pass, for example, or if you buy a one day mainstage pass, you can always go to our box office and say, you know what, I want more. How do I turn this into something more? That's that's my probably my biggest piece of advice is don't be afraid to, you know, pull the trigger on the pass you think you want if it's just one day or just the main stage, because you'll always you might be wrong, but it's okay. You can, you know, you can use it in it. You can apply it to something else. We, our box office team is amazing, but I think a lot of people look at all of the offerings that we have and all the different ways to, attending and participate. And I've seen people just go, I just can't. And they just they are afraid of being wrong. So, it's and and also you can volunteer, a lot of people decide they want to volunteer and earn their pass. You can, volunteer for three, eight hour shifts and earn your pass for a full pass. Maybe that's a second year thing once you decide you've fallen in love with it. But, just wandering around town and kind of getting a feel for things is also a great way to do it. You can't. You can, you can. You can see and hear a lot just doing it that way. And it isn't. It's it's not one genre. So if you're like, well, I know that rock and roll stuff seems like a, you know, there's probably something for you. Yeah. Because there's all different types of music. Yeah. And I'm like trying to think of what we don't have. And you probably I mean, you can find anything from, you know, indie. All right. Oh up country to death metal. Wow. And you know and all ages we have kid for it that really is focused on getting young people involved to involved and crossover with all the other forts like CCaC for it and yoga for it and story for it. Kid for it is a great way to go down with your young folks and participate in the festival with them. Not just not just place to put them. Lots of lots of activities and crossover things for people of, of all ages, even, you know, down to the toddlers that you bring down to the park. There's all sorts of things for them to, for you to interact with, with them down there as well. So it's for people of all music tastes and all ages. Nice. I heard you say earlier you were discussing, you were talking about true for it and you said, it's almost there. So I'm wondering what what is there? Well, and that's the the part that, you know, I think we always guard a little carefully because, you know, it's financially been very challenging for sure. And we have, worked hard for a long time just to get through the losses of the pandemic and, and what debts that has caused and then growing our team, having that year round team and building up, building out the venue and then getting the chance to take over the shrine, that's so really when I say almost there in my mind, I'm thinking about the kind of financial, the financial stability for our team that needs to be there. From where we've come from. I'd say we were doing great going into that 2020 festival. Just having the year round promotion team and and the festival was doing great. I was able to just kind of go back to my day job and be a leadership level was really. And then and then and then everything. We also we had a pandemic and then we got opportunities to build what we thought we could with that year round, ecosystem of live music that people can work in. And so that's really what I mean when I think people look at it and they're like, people are out drinking and, and the it's full and you guys must be rolling and money. And that's just, not the case at all. So, as hard as we try and we have, we have had some really amazing, investors and, and private private debt that we've been able to work out with great people in the community and really, really amazing advisors in this community. People that have done they're really smart and have done made a lot of impact and made been been very smart business people who have really been willing to sit down with us and take the time to help us solve problems and help us get to the there that I feel like we're almost there. But that's that kind of you know, the financial challenge of what we've been through and what we've built at the same time makes sense getting there. Yeah. All right. Well, speaking of getting there, I'm going to, take a moment to thank our sponsor. Oh, so this episode is brought to you by Sam SOS, your local source for garden pet and planet friendly. Premier. Easy for me to say to send it semi-solid. This episode is brought to you by Zamzows, your local source for garden pet and planet friendly products. As a thank you to our Nobody Knows listeners, you can use the code tree for it. That's all. One word at checkout at Zamzows.com and you'll receive 10% off your online order. The discount applies automatically and is valid online only and excludes long programs. And this one will run through June 30th of 2026. So nobody knows like Zamzows. So question. Yeah. Can I buy cat collars. Do that discount. You know, what you ought to do is you just put it out to the neighborhood. I bet all of us would just buy you cat collars because we love your cat so much, we'd probably we'd probably furnish the food and everything. We're just. We love your cat so much. Oh, the one neighbor. That's the one that I've communicated with the longest. She actually. He gets mad at her. If. If she's the one that told me that. I said he stopped eating food at home and she said, oh, this is the food I get for him. And he really loves it. And here's how you get it. You can't get it locally. And I'm just like, okay, here we're like crazy cat ladies. We've decided we're going to get jackets, but geez, I love it. He comes by her house the same time every day because she has food out for him. A warm, warm cat house in a heated water bowl. Yeah, I think the entire neighborhood would do anything for that cat. We just love him so much. We're going to move into a segment called Sharing is Caring. And it's going to be kind of quick rapid fire questions. My first one is not written here. Is that an aura ring that I see? Okay. So my question for you is what is your readiness score today? 74. Ooh, it wasn't good. No surprise. I felt like I'd like slept pretty well last night and I, I had a hip surgery in November. Oh my family we have bad hip. So my sleep score has been abysmal for years because you can. And it started to improve now because I can sleep through the night. And I was really I was so excited. I got this morning in the 74. I know, it's so disappointing, isn't it? I like I've had days where it says it's going to be okay. I like that. I was like, that's when you need the pep talk from your aura ring app. It's that's a bad that's a bad day. I really hate it when it says you're showing minor signs and you're like, I actually feel pretty good. I don't think I'm I, but then all of a sudden, psychologically, you're like, I guess I better take it easy today. What about my heart rate? There's no the heart rate variance. That's the problem. It's like, for crying out loud, with the heart rate variance, it's like a good I can't win on that one. Yeah. That's the one that you know you can't trick it by right. You can't say like what. It knows how much wine you had. Yeah. That's what it's really telling you. I'd gum it. I do love it, though. I mean, you have to advocate for it. We've kind. I have had ours for. I think it's about three years now, and I, we just upgraded to the latest one, which were like, I don't really even know what we got with the upgrade, but it's just fun to say this. No, I did that. I upgraded to that ceramic one. Yes, I noticed that it looks very cute. Which slide to ask. I'm like, it's so pretty compared to mine. I've lost a couple and that's that's not good. No. So that's discouraging because you lose all this like there's a chunk of data when you're not wearing it. I know, and then it's lost. And I've realized that's when I realized I was a junky because I was like, I can't do it. I gotta I gotta go to Best Buy right now. So true. It's it has changed our lives. And also it is kind of the master of everything where it's a good nerd fun. Yeah. It is. Our funniest thing is now it'll be like, you know, 4:00 in the afternoon. We're like, well, we better eat because we don't want if we eat late or we'll call us out on it and tell us, but that's why our sleep score is so low. Gotten up in the middle of the night and been like, you probably shouldn't have that. It's going to no, no, no, it's going to call you out on it. A popsicle, really. It's three in the morning. Someday it's going to be like that. Yeah. It'll like it'll speak to. No, no, no. On the popsicle at 3 a.m., we go back to bed. We've talked about this. I this virtually digressing, but my husband and I will laugh it at go. When we go to the grocery store, we do the self-checkout sometimes will have one of us will speak up and be like we're the checkout, like the automatic checkout robot, and we'll see other things like, really, did you need those ice cream sandwiches? Put them away. Do you use two boxes really? Exactly. Or just be like, we're only buying one of those. That's not realistic. That's true. That's exactly it. Okay, I totally digress. Now we're really going to talk about it. We're going to do the sharing is caring now for legit. All right. How about a Boise venue that gives you chills. Oh I know I saw that in the lead up. And I'm just saying honestly, I would have to say the main stage 3 or 4 main stage. It's just looking out over the people over the years. I never it never gets old that can I imagine, I don't I don't watch the bands as much as I just watch the people and and that feeling, that's nothing like it. Yeah. Like that's a real community right there. Like that's really feeling. Yeah, yeah. And then I would and then if I, if you go to like long term year round, you can feel everything that's special in the history that's happened in the evening when there's ten people in there. Relax. I wish you know, I get I get kind of annoyed with the people that grew up here and tell me about all the bands that they saw then I know, and isn't it wild? And I'm just like, okay, cool. I didn't I wasn't here for that. Thanks. But you can feel it in there. This is bet and the people that work there and have run it for years and have even evolved over time. And Allen, you can feel the special family of in the culture, the people that and the special things that have happened there. Yeah, that's a great answer. How about an emerging artist or a sound that you're excited about? How people ask me all the time and I don't know, I don't know. I think what I have discovered is I don't plan my tree for it. I just end up in moments with people in front of bands, and I. I love that I all right, I'm going to say it. I don't really get geese. It's like, not my thing. And it's okay to say that out loud in this moment, in time. My two daughters there, they were, five and eight at the first tree fort, and Ellie rode her bike for the first time without training wheels down to the first tree for another 19 and 22. And Addie is super into geese and Ellie and I. Ellie and I look at each other and we're like, is it okay to say I don't get it? Like, I understand this, but I get it like I on paper. But what I'm really excited for, and it's probably the same thing as Sophie Tucker last year, is how excited people are. And to really and to see that special moment of something, something that hasn't happened in boys in a certain way in music, like having that Sophie Tucker show last year hasn't happened. Something like that hasn't happened like that. And I was just I get really excited about watching those moments, and I think that I'm really excited for all of the people to be there in that moment when that band takes the stage because of the unique moment that they're in and, and, and where, where that's going to intersect. So it's not really the band itself, but more the moment. Yeah. Okay. How about a tree fort moment that always makes you emotional? I'm going to say so when we had to cancel tree for the 20 20th March, it was always. It's always March. We thought we would just kick it down the road for six months, but we then quickly realized that was not going to be long enough. So the next tree fort that we had was September of 2021. And, that was we it we call it the, you know, I call it the Unicorn Tree Fort. The weather was perfect. The weather was perfect every day. We still weren't totally out of the pandemic. We navigated a lot of stuff. But just the the energy and the joy and the gratitude and, Yeah, that was a really special moment of watching people how how lucky they felt and excited they were to come back and be part of that and be present at a tree fort again. And it was like 75 degrees. So it was perfect. Definitely felt like unicorns and rainbows. Gives me goosebumps. Okay. It's time now for the question that we ask everybody. There are no rules. So here's the question. What is something that nobody knows. I had a couple and I think one is embarrassing. All right let's do that one. Yeah. Like I had lived here for I think that this maybe ten years and, where I went into dinner with someone so must been like, I don't know, 28 and and someone said, that's Doug Marsh sitting over there. And I said, who's that? And there's like, lead singer built spill. And it was like, was that a band. And and that is embarrassing. I did not grow up lucky enough to have listened. I grew up with mainstream radio. My parents were older, they listened to Statler Brothers, and I was not exposed to a lot. So, I'm making up for it. I'm trying to. Oh boy. And then some. You're missed a lot. And Doug is a wonderful, nice person. And really, I think the original sponsor of tree for it, because when he agreed to play that original tree for his band, that's where so many artists wanted to be on a stage or on a bill with Bill to spill because of how many artists they have inspired over the years. So but that's super embarrassing. That was like 2008, and I was like, who? What? What an authentic, wonderful answer. I think there are a lot of people who would just hide that because now you're like, you know, how how could she be good at this if she didn't even know that? And I that's the kind of stuff that I love to share with the people who are listening, so that they can be more real themselves because it's okay. It's it's actually quite charming. I think that I have never said that aloud. I'm pretty sure. And, and it's and it's embarrassing and it's also sad for me. So that's what people should think is that's so sad for you that you and all those years of listening to mainstream music, other people fed. You didn't discover something like that earlier. Well, it built who you are today. So I mean whatever. Right? Right. True. How do if people want to learn more about tree for it? How do they find you? Tree fort music fest.com is everything should be there. You can also, you know, ask your person sitting next to you what they know. But the app is also a really great way to discover, what's happening and, and see it all in one place. So but our website is great if you follow us on, if you follow the club, if you follow the duck club tree for the music hall, the Shrine on Instagram, Facebook, all the all the socials, then you get a lot of content and things to be excited about, but it's starting at the website is probably a good place to go. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you for being here. But more importantly, thank you for helping create something that has completely changed the community. And thank you for leading all the people who make it happen every year. You're you're welcome. I've gotten much better at it, saying you're welcome and being proud of what I contributed to all of that. As opposed to brushing that under the rug. And because it's it took so many people in the right moment, in the right time. But I'm really grateful and feel lucky and proud that I was there in the part that I did. So good, so good. Thank you for loving my cats. Yes. I can't help it. Yeah. No. You know how to thank me. I can't help it. You're one of the few people that has seen the part of me that seems that I'm afraid people think is crazy because it's like, hey, this is a very private moment that I wanted to thank you for being a part of my vulnerability. I, I love being and I'm not saying that lightly. I love being part of Rudy's life. I love it, I absolutely love it. He's welcome in our house anytime. And so are you to come get him. I have I do have one neighbor that I felt bad for because he was using her flowerbed as a litter box and so I came to Zamzows and I said, what can I get to discourage my cat from doing that? And then also bought her a very large, beautiful flower planter. And as things so like, that's the one person. Personally, I'm always afraid that he's not making someone's life better. Yeah. So thanks for help with that. Well you're welcome. It's a mutual admiration society, I like it. All right, well, if you enjoyed today's conversation, please follow the podcast. And I'd love it if you left a review. Next week, we'll hear from another incredible voice shaping the Treasure Valley. And till then, thank you for listening.