Welcome to the Nobody Knowz podcast with Callie Zamzow. Join us for conversations with local changemakers and hear the stories that don't always get told. It'll be honest, messy and beautiful. Touching and humorous. Slow down for a glass and pull up a chair. This is the Nobody Knows podcast. Welcome to Nobody Knowz. I'm your host, Callie Zamzow, so, I don't know why I always say it every time we start the show. Here we go. I think it's my way of, like, prepping for this moment in time. I want to start off with a tip of the week, as is my custom. This upcoming. Saturday, February 21st. Zamzows, is having a seed starting class. So for those of you who have thought about starting your own seeds now, this doesn't have to be garden seeds. This can be any sort of seed. Sometimes it's flowers, things like that. Most of the time it's gardening. You can come in and, at 10 a.m. at all 12 of our stores. So whichever store is closest to you, they are free. And we have experts in our store teach a class, and then they hang out so that you can ask all of your questions about seed starting also happening at the same time. We're having a promo that we called Chuck it in the bucket. We have a bucket that is named after my grandfather, Bernie, who was a big bucket guy. And if you buy the bucket, then you and I think it's $5.99 to buy the bucket. Anything that you can fit in that bucket is 20% off. So heads up, seed starting stuff all fits in the bucket. So you could go to this class, gather up the things, stick it in the bucket and save yourself a lot of money. So there's your tip of the week that, again starts February 21st and this is 2026, in case anybody is listening in the future. And it will be at 10 a.m. again free at all 12 Zamzows locations. So I hope you come join us. Now I'm going to shift gears and talk about feet. How smooth is that? So before we got started this morning, I indicated that I have, you know, an interesting idiosyncrasy about my feet. I on both sides, I have two feet. Two toes that are webbed like the two. So you got. Yeah. You want to join us in this conversation? You only have to like the middle ones. Yes. So, like, I have my big toe, and then the next two are webbed together, and then the rest of them are just the regular toes I got opposite. So it's like the opposite of a Vulcan foot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I said. Exactly. Does it make you a better swimmer? I don't know. I have been a swimmer my whole life, so I'm not sure if that's true or not. And my parents offered to have them separated when I got to be that teenager age. But I've always loved them. I love them, they're part of who I am, and I'm not embarrassed about them. I do, they don't. Do you name them? No. Well, I'm just curious. But here's an interesting thing. I am. I was born in June. I'm a Gemini, which I find very interesting because I like these Gemini toes. There you go. Yeah. Anyway. Gemini toes. Gemini lefty... Gemini righty. That's exactly it. Okay, so this is all very silly way to start a serious conversation. And one that I'm really excited about. I think I'm going to learn quite a bit about this. So welcome into the studio, Lindsey Carmichael. She is the founder of Soleni Shoes. And welcome to the studio. Thank you. Thanks so much for having me here. You're welcome. I apologize that I apparently I'm in sort of a strange mood this morning, and, I'm down for it any time we get to talk about feet. Yes. Well, and I can tell just, just in this little bit of time that I've just barely gotten to know you. That you have, a fun sense of humor and definitely, you're down for this weirdness, so I appreciate that. Yes, I probably really have to put a little bit of a filter on my my personality sometimes. I also work in orthopedics, which is like very out there and very fun. And it's like, you know, working in the operating room with, like, we're all kind of music and then coming in and sitting down and talking to patients, and that's awesome. That's totally true also. Oh my gosh, this is so great. I already love this podcast. Okay. So let's before we get going, can you just tell us a little bit about yourself? And kind of like what you do and. Yeah. Yeah. I moved to Idaho, about 15 years ago to pursue graduate school. So I've worked in the Treasure Valley for the last 15 years as a physician assistant, and most of most of those years working in orthopedics. I have a family here. I am, you know, well into the startup community as well because I have this footwear startup. I don't know if it's considered a startup anymore because it's I've been selling shoes now for a couple of years. I still work full time in orthopedics for Saint Luke's, so I am very busy in my day to day full time. I see probably 60 to 80 patients a week. Wow. And I do shoes. I'm kind of a one man banjo when it comes to the shoes, so life is very busy. I have young kids and a husband who also works full time. My kids play competitive sports, so this is just like crazy busy season. But I think I would be bored if I wasn't doing all the things. Yeah. And I, I think I, I'm, I'm exiting that stage a little bit in that my daughter just left for college. So all of that very intense part. I love the way that you just described it. You're all in. You're there. And which is the coming. Take it from an older woman. Like you will not be sorry that you are all in right now. And even though it's exhausting and there's a million things going on all at once, you'll be glad you did all of it. And I love it. I love hearing when parents do that. Yeah, it's it's super fun to see your children grow up loving the things that you grew up loving. I was a big soccer player, which is probably why I've had a bunch of knee surgeries, which sort of transpired into the work that I do now as an orthopedic PA, and also really was sort of the basis of my inspiration for starting shoes. So interesting. All right. So let's just let's talk about, about your journey into the world and, and then specifically then deciding to go into the orthopedic end of things. So how did that all come about? Well, my first job was working in cardiology, which I really loved. But I don't think it was a perfect fit. And then I did a few other things, like general surgery and really kind of learned, like the basics of medicine. I learned that maybe chronic care isn't for me. So I'm really kind of procedural oriented. I just fit in orthopedics, so I really like to do injections. I really like to do procedures. I really like to make people feel better. And I feel like I can do that more frequently in orthopedics. So it fits my personality much too. I did mention that ortho is very like screaming kick your grandma music in the operating room. And initially I didn't want to go into orthopedics because I just pictured myself holding this leg while the surgeons are just like hammering away at it. And I was like, why would anybody want to do that? And then it turns out that I did want to do that. So, so it just really kind of fits my personality. It's really kind of a we say it ortho bro. So you just it's like all of the surgeons that are in my clinic and the sports med doctors, I used to wonder, like, why they would all hire big male pays, and it's because it's, like, very physically demanding in the O.R.. And I don't work in the O.R. anymore, but, but it is very male dominated, which I think I kind of fit in there. Hang with the Ortho Bros. Yeah, just for the person who doesn't understand orthopedics and why, it might take a little bit of strength to do some of that. Like, can you describe, like, some of the stuff that. Yeah. So this is kind of a way to break it down a little bit. My first my very first interview for an ortho job, the first thing they asked me was if I had a tool set. And I said, well, yeah, like I can hang my own stuff on the walls and it was like, no saws, hammers. And that's really it's very physical. In the O.R. you are holding big limbs. Where? Well, the surgeon is sawing away. We might get a little graphic here if you're going to get your knee replaced. Like, don't go to YouTube and look at it before beforehand. But it's really pretty physically demanding. And sometimes when you're seeing, like, big athletes per se, like, I don't know that I could do an adequate job of, like, checking an ACL tear on a big football player thigh. Like, my hands are just not that big. So I have to, like, get on the table and kind of just really get into it to to figure that out. So it's just more physical. On the flip side, I am very gentle with my injections. People generally love me for that. So yeah, it's a physical job, but it's really kind of like my love language. It's treating a lot of people that don't know what orthopedics is, is treating a lot of bone and joint muscle. It can be anything like arthritis in the older population, too, like acute sports injuries. So I worked a lot of orthopedic urgent care that we have a number of orthopedic urgent cares here in the valley where if you blow your knee out up at the ski hill, you can come to these places and get evaluated. And, you know, we read X-rays and we do evaluations. We can order and interpret imaging and things like that. Lots of casting and splinting, shoulder reductions. If you dislocate your shoulder. So that's a lot of the stuff that I like to do and that I do. That's fascinating. Like I feel like I want to look through the window, all that's going on. I don't know. I don't know. Some people can handle it. Some people not so much. Yeah. Yeah. Well it's I don't know what's worse. Like actually seeing it or imagining what it's gonna be like because I'm like, wow, that's, Yeah, that sounds intense. It's a really great service to have for a place like this, where we have all four seasons and we have very active communities. You break your clavicle, and you don't want to go sit in the E.R. all night or whatever. This is a great place. And then it plugs you right in to where you need to be, whether it's or the follow up or surgery with an orthopedic surgeon. So wild. So let's, let's talk about kind of your shift into shoes. Yeah. So when, like, at what point did you go is there an moment or was it sort of something that that kind of happened over time? It really transpired probably over a decade or so. I look back at pictures of myself in college, like wearing these four inch high heels after playing a basketball game. I was a, small college athlete, and my senior year in high school, I blew my knee out as lots of young teenage girls do. I got it all fixed and I was, lucky enough to be able to play on scholarship, small college basketball and soccer. And I look back at these photos even after having a big reconstructive surgery and I'm like, damn, those heels are nice. But as I got into my mid 20s and I moved over to Idaho to go to school, I started having these weird knee flare ups where it would just swell. I was playing a lot of indoor soccer at the time here in Boise, and I just thought, like, this can't be my life. I was having a hard time running. And then as I sort of grew in my career as a PA, I got married and got pregnant, gained a lot of weight. That was not very fun. I developed plantar fasciitis and started also developing bunions and really just got to a point where I'm like, I am miserable trying to wear high heels or any sort of even wedge with heel elevation, my knees would swell. And so I thought, like, you know, in medicine, if you see someone like walking around on the street and they're wearing dance coat clogs, you're like, oh, that's a doctor or a nurse. And you're like, God, those are so terrible. I still wear them. Props to dance Glee. That's that's the only shoe that I can wear in the O.R. for a long day. But I'm like, damn, these are ugly. So. And at the time, this was like, 6 or 7 years ago, it was really hard to find that combination of, like, really the comfort and support that I needed. And also that just wasn't about ugly, you know what I mean? I do know what you mean. And I'm I have some dance goals as well, and I but I don't wear them very often. Yeah. They're comfortable. You might wear them like to go get the mail or to like garden or so I do wear mine in clinics sometimes, but I'm not going to wear them with a dress pant. I wear them with like scrubs, you know. So I also we're seeing a lot of women in my clinic and some like really, you know, like multi-million dollar real estate agents and they're like in their 30s. And I'm like, you know, I like work up there. Neither having knee pain and all the imaging. And the MRI is normal. And I'm looking at their shoes and I'm like, girl, you got to quit wearing shitty shoes. Like, I think that's your problem. Yeah. But then you try to tell these women that they need to go pick up some orthopedic shoes at the local store, and they're like, you know, I'm not doing them any favors because they're not going to do that, right? So then I really started just really thinking about it. And I just started taking steps to move forward, to try to figure out if I could do it. And this was kind of before the pandemic. So that's kind of what started it all. Interesting. So did you start by like like trying to design the first perfect shoe? Like did it start there or did you kind of already have that in mind? And then you went to the style. Like what how did was the order of operations on that? Yeah. Great question. I knew from a medical standpoint, you know, kind of the bread and butter of orthopedics, like lots of people get plantar fasciitis, lots of people get heel pain. Women's feet change over time. They actually flatten and widen. You know, when everyone says, oh, my feet grew like a half or a full size after pregnancy, it's actually ligament laxity. So it actually just flattens and widens that are not growing. So I knew kind of the basics of the changes of, anatomy over time for women. Women's feet are so vastly different. Like most people have one foot that's bigger than the other. Some people have short, stubby toes. Some people have a long second toe on one foot. But I knew how to treat simple bread and butter. Foot pain without, you know, not that. Not the crazy hard orthopedic stuff like bad neuropathy or foot deformities, but kind of like mainstream foot pain. Simple things like arch support, deep heel cupping with pads, making sure the toe box isn't too narrow for people that are developing bunions or have, you know, isn't aromas or stuff like this. These are all really common foot conditions that people have, both men and women. And so I knew it needed an orthotic because I could go out and buy like a ballet flat. And it just has like zero support. So it's like walking on the ground and I have to have some form of arch support because otherwise I get really bad back pain. And that's been a long term thing for me. So I knew the basis of what I wanted and then it was really like designing a shoe that was kind of chic and professional, but could also crossover into casual, you know, like really highly functional. So I actually jumped the flight to a materials convention in Portland. Portland is like a huge hub of footwear development. The Nike World headquarters are there, the Adidas World headquarters are there. There is tons of footwear design and development. So I sort of stalked this guy. I was riding the train to get to this convention and I was overhearing him talk. And so I just kind of jumped up next to him, and I think he was like, whoa, oh, you're a little too close. I had probably had a bunch of coffee, too, because it's just like I. Hi there. Yeah. So I just started talking to people and that's kind of where it started. I went to the convention. I was incredibly overwhelmed. Like, whoa, there was all these international leather venues and materials, and I'm like, this is terrifying. But I ended up making some connections. Met with a development company that helps design because it's all very technical. There's CAD, and, and that is not my background at all. So I just kind of had this idea and went for it, and it's transpired into selling shoes now. That's awesome. I have a thousand questions. I'm, I'm going to have this is going to sound somewhat random, but I just as you were talking about it, can we talk about foot arches a little bit? Because in my family, like, you kind of look at the genetics and some of us have these, like, really high arches and a couple of us have, like, no arches at all. So what what gives with that? Like. Well, it's not like it's just you're born that way. Genetics all right. Yeah. And and is it is there was one better than the other or one more prone to injury than the other or anything like that? I would say people with severe flat foot deformities can have problems with, midfoot dysfunction and what's called posterior tibialis dysfunction. When your foot doesn't have the arch, it can develop other deformities that sometimes require, surgery, like tendon reconstruction, the midfoot reconstruction. Not everybody needs support. Like, if my sister in law has super flat feet, she actually works for them. So it's company, but. Oh, she hates wearing arch support. Like, she tried my shoes on and she was like, oh, I don't think I could do it. And so she just likes the, the, the flats and, I mean, she might develop foot pain in the future and some sort of dysfunction, but she's fit and doesn't have any foot pain. So what is the point of an arch? Like what? It's not. It's not too deep of a question. Like, I just I'm wondering like if because people have all these different, then why the arch? It seems like they are. It seems like a flat foot makes more sense than an arch foot. There are other different deformities. The other thing we're getting into kind of some orthopedic technical stuff, but if you stood behind ten people and, people that have flat foot tend to also get something called hind foot valgus, where their heel bone actually rotates towards the outside, and it can cause other mechanical issues with knees, ankles, hips, like all lower extremity stuff. I mean, people that never have foot pain or joint pain aren't going to come and see me, but people that sometimes do come and they have knee pain per se. Arch, you know, anatomic arches can affect your whole body mechanics. I've heard that. Yeah. Which is fascinating to me. Just the thought of that. And I think about, like, I don't know, people, you roll an ankle and then you have an injury, like a minor injury that then becomes a major injury because now you're kind of you're treating it differently, and now you're walking just a little differently. And now your hips are out of alignment. Now you're, you know, I just it's I know it sounds like a rabbit hole, but but I think about these things. Yeah. And not just fat. I mean, there are other parts of your body that you can get out of whack that then will affect other parts that you're like, what does this hip pain have anything to do with that? Well, because thigh bone's connected to the we learned in kindergarten. Yes, yes. I mean, that is totally true. I am not a foot specialist by any means. Really. But I have seen and treated a lot of women for foot conditions. I mean, you can have like tight Achilles tendons and be having like, arch pain, or you can have punter fasciitis or, you know, not everybody will have these. But the statistics are, I want to say, like almost 40% of people will develop some form of foot pain at some point in their life, whether it's acute or chronic. That's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot. Yeah it is. Yeah. Okay. Let's go back to your journey. So thank you for detouring for a moment with my randomness. Okay. So so you went you started to gather some data. At what point did you say I'm doing this? I'm. I am going to create something new. I'm going to form a company. Was there a moment? Yeah, probably. I don't remember that moment at all. Just kind of transpired. And I'm really kind of one of those people that's just like if if I want to do it, I'm just going to do it. That's not always the right thing to do. I'm probably an overly decisive person and you know, you live in, you learn, you make decisions and, and whatever. But I, I hired a development company out of Portland and they sourced a factory in Mexico, which was really exciting. I was very pregnant and I spent time down in Mexico, at some of these factories, touring some of these places. The tanneries with the leather down in Mexico is just, like, so amazing. I visited some not so great factories. So you get to see all sides of manufacturing. So that was really important. I think it was important for me to try to stay as ethical as possible. Footwear is also quite a dirty business. There are lots of chemicals and plastics used and so trying to stay as eco friendly as possible. But also there's give and takes. With that, I really wanted to create a high quality shoe that would last a lot of years. Not something that was you were going to throw away in six months. So I really chose high quality leathers and materials. Orthopedic shoes are also much stiffer than regular shoes, like you can't bend them in half and twist them so they're heavier, so they do last longer. So I spent some time in Mexico and got to tour factories. Did you go by yourself? I did, yes, I took my mom down there one time, which was really interesting. I also went down with the developer. Things didn't work out for me in Mexico, for various different reasons. Mexico is very good at making really high quality, like women's leather midsole, outsole, sandals. I met another founder there for a really high end, like, Southern California women's footwear line called beak. And she was amazing and had all sorts of things to, you know, say I met a couple different founders down there, other footwear owners and stuff. But it didn't end up working for me. I just couldn't quite get the quality and the technology I needed. So I ended up shifting over to China, which has, been amazing. Like, you tell them what to do and they just do it. So it's been a different experience for me because I don't go to China. In Mexico. I was down there a lot. But I don't go to China. My developer have a new developer, and he has two employees over there that do like all of our quality control and sampling and all of those things. Wow. So I'm just imagining all of this taking place. You're you're you're building a family at the same time that you have this thing that is you're clearly drawn to it. So you you must have some sort of a pull like, I'm going to be doing this, you're doing this all at once. What was that like? Exhausting. I'm kind of exhausted hearing about it. I'm like, I yeah, yeah, I'm getting tired. I will say that, the, the most recent thing that's happened, you know, international manufacturing is, like, really challenging, especially, you know, everyone you see or talk to. They have like, big bags under their eyes and they're just like, oh, oh, you know, I probably did too, but, you look great. I don't see any of that. Nothing. A few injections, right. But, the tariffs have really significantly affected my business. I got tagged with a couple, so I launched my footwear company about two years ago. Okay. And started selling shoes. Feedback has been great. I'm learning the marketing side of things. And so learning how to figure out where my target market is, who these women are, who needs these shoes? I really wanted to market the words orthopedic because like, the words orthopedic and footwear just don't marry well together these days, you know? So I came up with ortho chic, so that feels a little sexier, like a hot. I'm writing that down because why can't we be sexy in our orthopedic shoes? You know what I mean? I feel that if I'm going to the club, I'm wearing these orthopedic suit. Yeah. And I'm going to dance all night long. I'm going to out dance the 20 year old because I'm wearing these ortho chic shoes. Yeah, and I'm with you. If I need to elevate my legs, at the end of the day, I'm going to be upside down twerking on the wall. And that's how we're going to. Love it. My compression socks are no good. Well, we do what we we do what we need to do. Right? Yes. Okay. So. So you are doing all this. You start your family and it's. And you're still in the you're still in the thick of it because it's still pretty new in a couple of years here. You're and and and you're exhausted. It's beginning to be exhausting. Yeah. Tell me about or let's let's do this. If a listener is thinking about embarking on this journey, similar journey, obviously not the exact one, because that would be a competitor and we wouldn't want that. So no. Is the answer to that. If you're thinking of doing that. But if you're thinking of starting something else and you're in the same position, what words of inspiration and or advice would you offer that person? Yeah. If, put in the research, there is a book, something called like 1000 Hours that you're supposed to kind of put in 1000 hours of work and research to determine, like if this is really something you want to do. I think I put in my thousand hours, like after I started my business, which is totally fine, because like, if I say I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it. If you have a passion and you find a niche and there is a hole in the market, freaking go for it. They say that the vast majority of entrepreneurs that that don't make it the, the main reason is they quit. And early on in the journey, I was just like, no. And like, no way. That can't be it. But I mean, people do all sorts of wild things to be successful. They take mortgages, you know, extra loans out on their home, which I've refinanced my home a few times to like get the finances to do this. And I've been lucky enough to be able to take advantage of the Boise housing market when rates dropped and all of that. And I'm grateful enough to have a home to be able to do that. But people make huge sacrifices to make it work. So like if you are into it and that's what you want to do, go for it, I love that. Yeah. So tell me about some of the collaborations that you've done and what that's been like. So, so so you there, I guess you did some stuff in Portland, Or you have some kind of help me understand the kind of like the various different parts of the collaboration to create a shoe. Yes. So, you need a footwear developer, and they make all of like the what's called the tech packs, which are all the specific measurements with the Pantone colors in the materials and, you do size grading. So you have all these tech packs because, footwear construction is really complicated. You have an outsole which is usually like the rubber bottom of your shoe. My shoes have a midsole, which is this middle part of the shoe, and tennis shoes. That's kind of like the white squishy, squishy sole. And then you have uppers and then you have I have an insole. So all of these things have molds, and you need the technological packages to make these molds. Most of the molds are steel. Those are made over in China. So I have an outsole mold, midsole mold and insole mold, which is the orthotic, the shape of the orthotic. Then you have lasts, which are the plastic or wood fake shape of a foot that goes inside the shoe. And then that's how you get the uppers on. So you wrap the leather around and there's all this special machinery and other technology, in China. So there's lots of collaboration between the developer. Like I couldn't be a footwear developer. I do not have like the 3D CAD training and I cannot make a tech pack. But I can tell you that I want these materials. Let's sample these colors. I give the paint tones and we sort of let's do this kind of shape. I'll oftentimes go and shop and find different shoes and be like, I love the shape of this, or I want the heel to kind of look like this or things like that. I need more volume in the forefoot. I need the last needs to be bigger in the front of the shoe. So we have more volume for people's toes kind of stuff. So it's like a really deep collaboration between me kind of telling them the style, what I want it to look like and the important parts of the insole, which is really like the most important part of the shoe. And then my developer puts that in tech packs that we then ship over, and then you also have to do this in a full size run. So like thinking of the different sizes. So so many shoes. We have shoes from sizes 6 to 12 wide, all half sizes and full sizes and size wide. So this is like so many SKUs also in colors and right like okay. Yes. So you have to get in order because because of just like economies of scale type of thing is I like was what. Yeah. This is like a niche footwear company that's really kind of focused on like the wildly different foot and shapes shoes, you know, feet sizes. So you want to be able to offer all of that to people like I might, I'm like an eight wide. So historically I would buy an eight and a half. And really, like, feet are so complicated. We buy shoes just based on the length mainly, but the size of your shoe. But there is like instep, there is width, there is volume. There's all sorts of stuff. So it gets a little more complicated. So that's why when we like, we'll try on a, a size seven and a half in one shoe, and then we try it on a seven and a half another shoe. And like this doesn't fit. It's because it's all those other different yes components that are involved. Yes. There. So like I own my own like proprietary molds like this as property of so silliness. Like it could probably get ripped off and someone could copy it. But each shoe brand and size, everything has its own separate molds. Interesting. Yeah. Wow. Which makes it even more complicated when we start bringing, you know, when we talked about bringing manufacturing back to the US, it's not going to happen for shoes. It is so complicated. We do not have the technology. We don't have the workforce. We don't have the factories. Like it's not going to happen here. It's so complicated in China already. I mean, a whole bunch of different countries do it and do it very, very well. And all the raw materials are over there too. So so you have a different relationship, I think, than the average person does with let's just choose China, since that can be a dirty word sometimes. You have a different relationship and that you've seen behind the curtain, so to speak, of just kind of what they, what they are capable of doing versus what you can find elsewhere. And how do you how do you find that relationship, like how do you find like the business? Because I know that they they do different. You know, they kind of, you know, business is different. They kind of take on relationships differently and that sort of thing. If you found that that that's an interesting dynamic or if you just kind of like gone in there and said, well, I'm going to just be me and figure this whole thing out, and it's worked out. What do you mean? Relationship with the factories? What about like, the people like with the with the human? So I guess here's what I'm here's my background on that. So I one time went to Taiwan. This is my big worldly moment. I'm not worldly at all, but one time I went with with the state of Idaho on, it was some sort of a commerce trip, with Sam. Sam was my brother. And I went and there was a whole list of things that we learned about culturally, about just how to even communicate and what to expect about how they how they see things and how they, you know, even a business card transaction, you hold the business card with both hands facing them. They they hand it, they hold it. You. If they give you your business card, you stop for a moment and you take time to read it. Usually there's a gift exchanged, you know, like like those kind of things where we had to kind of figure those things are those are the things like that. When you're in China that you had to kind of learn. I would say that I learned those in Mexico probably. Okay. It dealing in Mexico was much different. It needed I feel like I needed to be there. I really wish that I had spoke Spanish because I had a hard time communicating, even though the factory owners were young, like my age, and spoke lots of English. But there was a lot of miscommunication. The way that I deal with my factory now is I have my developer in Portland, and he has two of his employees that live in Hong Kong, and so I'm not on meetings with them, but we kind of indirectly communicate. Kathy, awesome to go over there at some point. I don't know if I will. The factory that I use is like a very small family owned factory. The sampling is very efficient. I get samples very quickly. Stuff gets done very differently than than how it did in Mexico. And I also didn't have very good representation in Mexico. I was in the middle of like switching a developer. And so, things change quickly. But I mean, also the pandemic changed a lot. I mean, there was so much shifting in manufacturing. If something fell to pieces in one country and people were trying to switch and go to Vietnam or wherever. And so maybe this is why everyone has big bags under their belts, because it's stressful, but it's a lot. Yeah. Do you feel like the world is a smaller place because you work internationally? Because you have these these partners that are international? I feel like my bubble here in Boise is a much smaller place when I start thinking and, you know, dealing with international manufacturing stuff. Yeah, yeah. I wish people understood how complicated it is, because I feel like the tariffs, have been very polarizing for people. And I'm not sure, people really understand how simple it can be, but also how complicated it can be. Like I, I made this post on TikTok like one of my goals for the new year was to try to grow on social media a little bit. So it's sort of some organic growth. And I made a post about how my sales dropped a lot this, this fall in this holiday season. Indirectly because of tariffs. And I just got lit up with all the wrong with the wrong people, but I just, I came to conclude that, like, people just really don't even understand. A lot of it was like making America buy in America. And you can't, right? You can't make some things you literally can't do in America. There are a couple of small shoe brands. Like Red wings is one that has manufactured in the US for years. And then other huge like Nike makes some sampling here, but but nobody makes footwear here in the US. And even if we did, it would cost billions of dollars to set it up and get the infrastructure. We don't have the technology, and I'm not sure people want to work in factories to make shoes here. It. Yeah. Okay. So you have made a point of of making ethical manufacturing and sustainability part of what you do that that makes things way more difficult. And yet I it's part of your goal. Can you tell us a little bit about that. Like what where does that stem from. And was there any point when that was tested where you're like, maybe I don't care so much if they're sustainable. Like if you can you talk to us a little bit about that. Yeah. I think my so footwear can is very pollutant. I mean lots when you make lots of stuff and use chemicals and stuff, you make a lot of waste, waste in the water. Not healthy for the people working in the factories, things like that. So when I went to Mexico, I saw some stuff where I was like, man, I this is terrible. One of the things I was like, one of the factories I visited was, like, very strong with a smell of adhesive. And you knew I knew that that was not healthy. So, you do the best you can in talking to the owner, and you can use your leverage. Like, I'm not going to bring my business here if you don't fix this, you know, air system in here or whatever. This needs to be safer for your employees. You do the best you can, but I have no way of, making sure factories you want to make sure they are abiding by their country's, labor laws. Right. And so, in Mexico, I had a little more control over it myself. I visited lots of tanneries, lots of tanneries down there. Have a, in Mexico, have a huge recycled water recycling process because tanning hides is really toxic. There's lots of chemicals and stuff, and different ways of tanning. And so in Mexico, they have a huge recycling water system, which was cool. And in Mexico they also use recycled hides. So they actually ship, American hides from the beef industry down there and tanned them. And so there's kind of this cool recycled process. I'm not exactly sure. I mean, I'm going to be fully transparent. I haven't been to China. I know that our factory is small. It is not some big mass scale factory. I do the best I can. I didn't want to create shoes that were just going to create a whole bunch of trash. And pollution. Yeah, I come from a family of scientists. My mom was a science teacher and my dad was a fish biologist. And so that's, like, important to me. Yeah. We're similar, sort of influences there. So obviously my father was all about what? What's going into the soil? What are we doing with the soil? With the water? And you know, all of that. So I, I feel that. Yeah, absolutely. And it does drive things. It does become becomes part of who you are. And it's just like you almost don't even want to do the thing at all. If you can't do it the in a way that is going to be healthy for the environment. Yeah, I think we could definitely improve the processes. I don't know that my little business will be something that drives that. But, there are companies, you know, like Allbirds launched their sneaker. I have another friend who started a company similar to Allbirds called Woolloomooloo, and they use, the wool upper shoes and things like that. Try to use some recycled products, but I can't personally vouch for the practices when it's out of, you know, out of the country. Right? Yeah, yeah, it's so interesting. I think when I think about the world and and how big it is, but then how it isn't that big and I wonder how long it's going to take us to be able to unite, generally speaking, and do better as a collective said of, you know, we all share the same, you know, we're about the same species. So it seems like we should be able to kind of come together and figure these things out non politically. I was like, I was just going to say, we're not talking about politics. I'm literally just talking about the environment. Yeah, I mean we all want to live in this world. I, we don't I don't want to get cancer. I want to be able to breathe clean air. I want to have clean drinking water. I think everyone can agree on those things. But absolutely. How do we get there? And if we do or don't, it's a whole ‘nother discussion. And that's where again, you talked about complications like that's where it gets very complicated because there are lots of puts and takes and money involved and things like that influence power. Yes. Okay. I'm going to change the subject. We're getting into the weeds a little bit. So let's talk about the women in this valley who are doing cool things and are one of them. What has it been like to be a part of like innovative women in this particular valley? So I was lucky enough to also like randomly walk into trailhead downtown. You're familiar with trailhead? I am, yeah, but let's discuss that as far as if our listeners aren't. Yes. So trailhead is a really cool sort of central station, downtown Boise, where if you have a startup or a business or thinking about something, you just can walk in and they have all sorts of resources. And I did, and I actually walked in on the wrong day. I thought I was coming in to watch some sort of speech. And, Tim, the CEO, found me and was probably like, well, this chick's lost. And I and I was and I was all sweaty and just like, okay, I'm going to do this. And I walked in there and I screwed up on the date of whatever the meeting was. But, I got plugged into the startup community, and I have been really lucky enough to participate in Boise Entrepreneur Week. I've pitched in the pitch contest, and I've been through some mentorships, which was really important for me because I don't know how to run a business. I didn't grow up in a family learning how to be an entrepreneur or I didn't know how to pitch. I have no idea about any of this. So I got plugged into that and have, there are so many resources in this valley too, for financing, loans and, you know, venture capital money. We have a couple of VC groups. I've flown to Salt Lake to give some pitches, so that's been a great connection. But it's also connected to me, to other badass women in this valley. The first one that always comes to mind is Jess Roth. She's the CEO of love. Every. And, not only is she, like, just an all around badass, can I say that? You can? Yeah. She is just, like, so kind. Like, she literally like, touches her heart when she talks to you. And she is just, like, so genuine. But I have come into contact and been a part of a couple different cohorts where also like, Sheree Hogan is a CEO and I think she's co-founder with her husband of the company, salt, which is like, period company. She is also amazing. They have crazy product, crazy awesome products. They're in target, but they're also doing all sorts of like global initiatives to help young girls with period care and stuff. Rachel Wilson is the CEO and, of Bold Hue, which is like a really cool it's like the Keurig for makeup. It's like a technology where you scan your skin and it like, makes perfectly matched foundation. And she's got all these crazy awards for like entrepreneur, startup of the year and stuff. And so all these women are in this valley, which is I feel so grateful to be able to have met them. And you know, heard them speak and pitch and watch their companies ebb and flow and grow and all of these things. So those are probably, I'm sure there's a whole bunch more that I'm not thinking of right now, but being able to meet some of these women, like, I think at some point love every had a valuation of like $800 million. Wow. Yeah. Which is like wild. That's here in Boise. We're just like this little town, you know, it's very cool. And you are one of them. Thank you. That's awesome. I just it's very cool to be talking with you and be hearing about this whole journey that you've had, and then knowing that you are a part of these women that are, that are creating and and maintaining and sharing and developing and widening the I just I don't know, it makes me very excited, makes me I'm grateful to be a woman when I'm around people like you. Yeah, it's it feels really good to hear that because I think sometimes in the thick of all the things, when you're just, like, grinding, it just you, you kind of lose sight of things. And when I'm asked to do things like, go speak on a panel at Boise Entrepreneur Week, my initial thought is like, oh, I'm so tired. I got a cancel clinic, and then I come out in the community. I'm like, oh, a shower today. I'm feeling, I'm looking good, I'm feeling good. I'm wearing my orthopedic shoes. And, then it kind of really inspires me because because you do sometimes lose sight of it when you are just grinding every day. Absolutely. And I think that's another thing for listeners who and I was, I just I imagine when people are listening that they'll be somebody that is and maybe many somebodies who are thinking of starting something or really want to do something but can't quite get the courage up. Or maybe they're right in the middle of it and they're grinding. They're like, nobody feels like this. Like everybody else is just glowing and happy, and it's joyous and it's all good. And it's it's that's just not the case. We have. Yeah. Girl, I had insomnia. Like, I think from all of this stress. I mean, you are up in the night thinking about things and how you can do it better and it is nonstop. And when you I showed up today, you're like, thank you for coming on your day off. And I was like, oh man, what the. There is no such thing. But like last year, I developed insomnia so horribly I was taking this is not medical advice, by the way. I was taking 30mg of melatonin. And just like losing my mind, I'm lashing out at my kids. And so I. I had to take a reset. I had to go through some cognitive behavioral therapy, which is an evidence based way of dealing with insomnia. And I dealt with it. And, because at the end of the day, like, you got you got to be happy no matter what you're doing. And learning how to set boundaries is also really important. And things like this, when you're just kind of losing your mind. Absolutely. Yeah. I did cognitive behavioral therapy as well. It is, it is, although slowing down and trying to, like, think of all the thoughts that you're having. I can try to, like, break them down. Is. That's daunting. Yeah. I'm a list maker. So, like, if I don't write it down as well, I'm not going to get done. And then I it just feel so good to check that stuff. Yeah, sometimes. But with startups and with companies, the list is just never ending because it's like constant. It's true, it's true. And sometimes I'll say to myself, okay, I'm this week, I'm not adding anything to the list. I'm just going to do stuff. I'm going to work out. I'm going to lift weights. Yes. Yeah, mean. So I think for myself. Yeah. And sometimes I'm successful. And spoiler alert, sometimes I'm not. Sometimes I have the best intentions and I get to the end of the week and I'm like, and I still didn't find the time to do those things. And, and I'm what I'm learning more and more in speaking with people like you and other women in the area and other leaders in the area, it's just that that's normal. Yeah. Like when you're passionate about something and you're working on something, how it goes. Yeah. I used to be like a super Type-A kid growing up. Like my bathroom was cleaned every Sunday afternoon. My room was cleaned. I had to clean laundry Monday morning. And as I get older, I'm just like, man, I don't have time for that shit. Or like, my house is a disaster. My kids are. I don't have like I would spend my whole life cleaning my house and I'm like, I don't want to do that. Yeah, yeah, we dropped some of those things off. Like, I just add that that I don't have space for that anymore right now. And maybe someday, like, I kind of think about in retirement, although I don't know what that's going to look like. But, you know, someday maybe they'll be I'll live in a little smaller space and I won't have as many things, and I can keep everything organized and, you know, maybe. Yeah, but maybe not, because maybe I'll start something new and, yeah, start all over. I want to travel and but do other things. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's just the real world. And I love it that we get to a point in our lives where we do sort of drop all that stuff off and we're okay with it. We don't do that, that beating of our beating ourselves up. And yeah, I don't know if you did any of that, but I like to really judge myself before. And I don't do that anymore. Yeah. There's no time for that. Yeah. I'm winning. If I get a shower every three days, so that's good. I hear your sister. All right, well, it's time for a quick mid, episode break here to talk about our sponsor, Zamzows, this episode of Nobody Knowz is brought to you by Zamzows, your local source for garden, pet and planet friendly products. Whether you're nurturing your backyard, your pets, or your purpose, Zam Zos helps you stay grounded. And what matters most? Is it samsung.com or stop by one of our 12 Treasure Valley locations? Nobody knows like tens of we're switching gears. Okay, we're going to do this little section called Sharing is Caring. Okay. Are you ready? Ready. A favorite local business you admire in the Treasure Valley? My friend Lizzy Rex owns a series of restaurants like the Wilder and Certified Bakery, so she is also a badass chick. Yeah, she and her husband, she's had a number of children while starting all of these local restaurant businesses. So awesome. Yeah, despite the pandemic and despite everyone's advice not to buy and start a restaurant, she's still doing it. And I'm so grateful because what she's doing is unique. And it's good. It's good stuff. Yeah, that's a great answer. Yeah. All right. How about a practice or habit that helps you recharge after a long day lifting weights or sitting in a sauna? Oh, I don't, I haven't I been told I need to do a little bit more weight lifting. Some. But to be continued on that. But the sauna that is like a game changer for me. Yeah. Do you have one at your house? Would you go to one? I have one in my house. I don't really want to sit in somebody else's. I'm the same booty sweat. I we don't, we don't really have a place for ours. So hers is in our living room. That's perfect. Yeah, yeah. Cheaper too. It's not sitting outside. And you got to pay to warm it up, right? Yeah. My favorite part is it's it's glass on the front, and I don't wear clothes in it. And so my family really loves that they just walk by and they're like, oh, mom's in the old sauna again. Yay, mom! I love that so much. Sorry, everybody, for that visual. Okay. How about a quote, a book or a podcast that is guiding your mindset right now? I don't read often, but when I do, I have to like that I have to check way out. So that's the only thing where I can get my brain to just stop working. The last book I read was called The Women Love That Female Nurses and, in the Vietnam War. And literally that is, if I read a book, that's the only thing I can get my brain to stop thinking. I learned early on that I have the kind of personality that burns out quickly, like I am just balls to the wall. And then I get it and do it and then I'm kind of like, oh, like this. Isn't that fun anymore? So, for me to be able to, like, reset and stick with the long game, with my small business and my career and all these things, reading something that has nothing to do with my day to day life, I like that. Okay, last question. This is an audible. Is there somebody that you want to thank? I'm going to be cliche and think my husband, I do well with an equal partner. Like, we both cook, we both clean. He runs kids to sports, we both work full time. There is no way that I could have done any part of this business if I didn't have his support and help, financially and day to day with kids. You know, I am an equal partner person, and he is my equal partner person. Yeah. I'm grateful for him too because he is allowing me being a support system to what you're doing. And I love what you're doing. So I haven't met him yet but yeah. Yeah. Thanks. On my behalf to my husband who's just outside is oh he comes to these podcasts and he hangs out and waits for me. But he is also, the same way. It's. I just I don't like, wouldn't be able to do anything without him. He's just incredible. And wonderful. Wonderful resource. And, Yeah. It's great. Can't say enough about a good husband. Totally. Okay. It's time that part of the show where we ask the same question to everybody, there are no rules. So you can answer it however you like. The question is, what is something that nobody knows? My husband told me that he never would have married me if he had seen my feet before. We got deep in our relationship. I have this second toe on my right foot that is really long. I am the foot girl, you know, he thinks I should have been a rock climber. Because if I was just like, in hanging by a limb, he thinks I could, like, take that second toe and scoop it up. And it would cliffhanger by that muscle with my right one. It's not my left one. It's only on one side. Well, I have a long left one, but the right one is like a whole finger. Oh, it can, like, actually maneuver things. And he hates feet and, and I've developed bunions. And then I became the shoe girl, you know? So. So he thinks his feet are perfect, but, man, he's got this, like, pinky toe. That's, like, got a wrinkle in it. I call it the lasagna noodle. And my kids inherited that lasagna noodle, which is. Which is great. I'm down for funky feet. Yeah, I well, clearly I am as well. So this is kind of a wonderful conversation. And what a perfect way to end it. Yes. I appreciate your time today. Thank you for what you're doing in this valley, what you're doing for feet and what you're doing in orthopedics and all of the stuff that you're doing. And I suspect the thing that's brewing next, because you're probably somebody who's got something else brewing. So thank you for that in advance. Thank you for being part of this community. And thanks for being on today. Thank you so much for having me. This has been a blast. I love when we can laugh about feet. That's my favorite. Me too. I'm with you. Okay, if you enjoyed today's episode, follow the podcast and please leave a review. And if you'd like to support a Boise founded brand making a difference for women everywhere, visit Soleni shoes.com. s o l e n i s h o e s dot com. Next week we'll hear from another incredible voice shaping the Treasure Valley. And until then, thanks for listening.