Welcome to the Nobody Knowz podcast with Callie Zamzow. Join us for conversations with local changemakers and hear the stories that don't always get told. It'll be honest, messy and beautiful. Touching and humorous. Slow down for a glass and pull up a chair. This is the Nobody Knows podcast. Welcome to Nobody Knows. I am your host, Callie Zamzow. I want to start off by thanking our sponsor, Zamzows We couldn't be doing this if it weren't for them, so, we appreciate their support. And I have, I have a little tip of the week to give you from Zamzows. This is a fairly new thing. We launched it last fall. Kind of a soft launch, but now we're coming out fully and letting everybody know that we now do local delivery. So what does this mean? If you have something that is over $50, then it is completely free. So for example, if you buy, Grandma Z's grain free Idaho fish and potato dog food are best selling dog food, by the way. And you bought a 25 pound of that. It would be, you would you would have the charge for it for the actual product itself. But then the delivery free beer would be completely free because it's over $50. So we also have the ability for you to have this on an auto ship program. So let's say that you need it weekly or bi weekly or monthly or every six weeks. You could set that up. You can do it through the website and we will automatically drop it at your doorstep. So this is totally new and we're excited about it. And the few people that have signed up for it so far are loving it. It's kind of a game changer when you don't have to go and get your dog food, so or whatever it happens to be. Anyway, check it out, try it. And, and we appreciate your business. Okay. I was thinking, as I was getting ready for this podcast about when I was a little girl and really even not that little, but like even into college years, there was a time, believe it or not, in this valley when you just knew everything that was going on, it was just that kind of a small community. And if that was happening in the Treasure Valley, you pretty much knew Nampa and Caldwell seemed further away than they do now. So maybe we didn't know everything. If we were in Boise, maybe we know everything that was happening, you know, at Karcher Mall. But we probably did in some way, shape or form. Now it's very different. Now there are things that are happening all across the valley, and it's such a vibrant, you know, fun, community involved stuff going on. And you do need guides that can help you. And so my guest today is one of those said guides. And my favorite one, I might add, because we have we are friends and I and I love that. And so please welcome to the studio, Natalie Plummer. Welcome. Thank you so much. You are a veteran because you've been on the show before, so we appreciate that. But new format. What do you think of it? I love it, it's beautiful. It's very cool. It's very sexy. Oh, thanks. Yeah, well, jealous, actually, I wish I had anything to do with it. I, the team at 116 and West set everything up, and, I think they, you know, kind of did the initial and hoped that I liked it, and they nailed it. I got the pictures, old pictures on the walls of my family, and it's just great. It's a fun space to be in. Yeah, it's pretty cool. The chairs are the one part that we always kind of you not sure about, but you have long legs, so you're probably fine in them. Yeah, I know they're great. Yeah. I don't know about the leather and leather. I probably should have rethought that. Well, you know, we should. We should learn. We should warn people. Okay. Before we get going too far into this for the people who, again, I don't know how people don't know who you are, but for people who don't know who you are, will you give us just a little background on who you are and what you do? Sure. So I, I'm most known for an Instagram page that I run, called Hello Meridian and it is the ten year anniversary this month. So I'm very excited about congratulations. You know, and basically, hello, Meridian in. It came about in a very interesting way. But basically I talk about the Treasure Valley kind of what's happening here, where to go, where to eat, from my perspective, from my opinion and also very, open about just in my humanness, I am a personality and a human and, whatever that looks like. So if I'm going through some crazy things and I might bring my followers along for the ride. So it's much more of a lifestyle. I had, years of blogging experience. I was one of the first mommy bloggers, which is how I started. I've been in social media for 18 years, and so it kind of meld into that. And then I also, I run an Instagram page called Real Housewives of Boise, which was just supposed to be this, like, kind of funny thing where I highlight, women in the community they think are doing cool things. And then that just kind of blew up out of nowhere. So that was fun. And then I also have a podcast is on a temporary hold while my husband tries to figure out what his feelings are about capitalism. So called the Boise bubble. And, so we're we're excited. I'm excited to see where that goes. But right now I'm kind of letting him lead that. Oh my gosh, there's so much. Jason, what you just got there? I don't even know where to begin. But I guess let's let's start with just, Because and I don't know whether you, consider yourself. I mean, at this point, you would have to consider yourself, but you're an influencer. Like, in short, yes, that is the term that was created. I was doing this before that was even a word. And so I don't love that word because I have this very large list of things that I do. And, and, and every one of them could be its own career. I'm a videographer. I'm a video editor, I'm a copywriter, I'm a public speaker. I mean, I do a lot of things. And then someone just was like, hey, let's call these influencers, which I don't love because it's definitely been used to be derogatory, probably because mostly women dominate in it. And pretty much anything that women dominate in, they're going to find society is going to find a way to diminish it. I think I was the first influencer in Idaho. I'm pretty sure I can't think of anyone else. When I started hello, and nobody was doing anything like this. And and I didn't even have anyone to look to of anyone who was doing this. I just had this idea that, worked with some of this other stuff I was doing. So, yes. So I'm an influencer, and I, I have influence, in the Treasure Valley. It's kind of how I see it. I'm with you. I don't like the I don't like influencer either. I think it helps people understand kind of what you do, but but as far as influencers go, I find you to be much more authentic. You are like what people see is what they get with you. And I love that. It's fun to follow you because I, you know, you also don't have like a standard way that you do everything. Every once in a while you'll just throw a fun curveball. We were like, what was that? And it's just fun. It's a it's cool and creative. You're very creative person. Thank you. Yeah. So have you always been like, is this your whole whole life you've been creative. It's just kind of now it's kind of morphed into this part of your life that you've. I think I've always been a deeply creative person. But I was one of, again, one of the first mommy bloggers. And that's when I think it just really dawned on me, I, that I wanted honestly, to be a writer. I started blogging in a way that was just very unusual at the time, which was I was just I don't really know how to do anything but be very authentic. Like, I honestly don't know how anyone does, like, I don't know how people function, without just being who they are. And sometimes you don't know who that is and it takes a while. And that's for all of us. And I'm in my late 40s, so it's like we're I'm in that go time. Like, yeah, you know, it's like really hard to keep anything masked at that point because, you know, our estrogens dropping and we're just like, no, this is who I am. And but that's why my blogging did very well is because I was just talking about being a new mom and just like, what is this? And this is so awesome. And also the worst thing that I can imagine and, and like, that was, you know, confusing for people because everything was always so like beautiful and like Pinterest and and I can do that. So too. But then what I realized was that when I started becoming very creative, it fueled me in this way and just let me up. But then what really brought it over was when I started creating this community of creatives, and I started to really invest in other creatives, whether they were writers or videographers. And I realized that I wasn't insane. I had just not been around the right people. And that when you are around creatives and you realize that what creatives do is they create their own reality, they aren't going to just figure out what society is telling them to be. I mean, some do, but like for the most part, they understand this truth that a lot of people don't is that your thoughts create your reality, and if you want something, you just make it happen. And I just thought I was just crazy in some of these ideas because I had this knowing so young. And then now I'm surrounded by other people that like, yeah, that's just what it is. And then you just start to run. People always talk about like needing a seat at the table and like wanting to sit at the table like, dude, there's no table. There are people who are just running. And if you can keep up and you're at the same pace, we're going to all run together and it's and you don't have to be so lonely in it. And so that that just was so validating to me that I can't fathom going back to my life where I was just, you know, living a very structured, safe path. I just think I would slowly die inside this. That's who I am now. Yeah. Do you think there's is there a, like. I call it head trash, but do you think that there's something that that blocks people from being able to see what you're what you just described? You did a really great job of describing it, by the way. Thank you. I think that, especially if you're not in it, it's like, well, well, no, you you had this and I don't have that or you, you know. So I guess if we were talking to or there's a listener there that's like, well, I want to I want to find that flow. I want to see that. What do you think the key was for you? One of the things is that there are very rigid boxes that people do live in and feel comfortable. Often they're titles of, you know, gender norms or spiritual norms or political norms or whatever that is, and it makes them very comfortable. And it but it also keeps your mind from expanding, because once you start to your your mind starts to go, it blocks up against these things. Because this is as far as I've been allowed to think, this is as far as I've been allowed to go. And so you really have to say, am I comfortable completely removing myself outside of those barriers? And that's an extremely hard thing to do. And it took me years because there were even as somebody who always felt like I was a very independent thinker, I was raised in a very high demand religion. And so I would I would find myself. And it was painful physically, mentally, it was anguish because I wanted to go farther. And I'm not saying that within some of those bounds, you can't do that. But it's harder. And so you really have to think, even if you want to stay inside of those things, can I still move a little bit outside? Can I be strong enough to to question some of these things? And once you are out then it's like, it's crazy. Just I feel like my mind is on fire all the time of just like even the stuff that I'm really focusing on now. Just in I mean, I'm super into quantum physics right now, and I'm just like reading everything I can and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is so crazy. But there would have been a time where I actually would have felt a little guilt even going in that direction. And now, I don't there's nothing that I bump up against and think, oh, that's going to hurt. If I go past this and it's going to it's going to prove to me some of my my thoughts were wrong. I'm very comfortable being, being shown that I have been wrong or that I have been limited, that I've been having limited beliefs and you get really comfortable because instead of feeling like, oh, I was wrong or I was not enough or whatever, it's like, oh my gosh, I'm expanding again. I'm expanding again. What else is going to be out there? And it's just it's so it's so exciting. And, I'm in therapy once a week. I think anyone who does my job should be and so like and even with that like what do I what did I not know about myself. And a lot of people genuinely, genuinely do not want that or do not care. And I actually do think there are people who I don't think they're capable, for whatever reason. And, you know, it takes all types, but absolutely. It's interesting, you you mentioned religion. I also think, family like family of origin. Yeah. It can be very challenging. Those are those for me. And, like, even because in my work, obviously the family is very central and going back generations, even what my grandparents might be thinking about what I'm doing now and you know, that, can be very limiting and I it has like you, it's been a process for me as well. It's incredibly freeing. And you do feel much more like yourself and sometimes like, oh, this is me I like. This is the me that's been hiding out. And, you know, I feel very much so like this podcast has been been one of the freeing things for me. And it's been such a joy. And you talk about that, that joy of doing what you love. So what? Tell me at the point when things all of a sudden things take off and become like exponential, was there a moment when you were like you were watching? You were like, oh my gosh, it's taking off? Or was it, was it not quite as steep? Or you know, how how did it go? You know, totally. So the reason so I started, a social media management company 11 years ago. Nobody was doing it. I was a stay at home mom of three kids, and I actually needed money for a medical procedure that my insurance was just not going to pay for. And I needed, like, a lot of money. I could do podcasts after podcasts of the amount of money. Like, I swear I just work for health care, and that's a whole other thing. But I'm like a stay at home mom at the three, these three kids, and I don't. I've at that point, I've been in Idaho for five years and my family's all from Idaho, and I'd lived in Idaho before, but this is my first time I'd been in the Treasure Valley, so I'd been here for five years, but I had really explored it. But I didn't have, like, any community connections at all when I started this, I mean, none, I, I had a few friends, but my husband traveled five days a week. He was a director for S.I. construction and he was gone all the time. So I just didn't know anyone. And like, what am I going to do? So I, start a social media management company and because there were all these companies in the Treasure Valley that didn't have Instagram like, I mean, I've been I'm, I'm still the, social media director at Roaring Springs, for 11 years now. So I went to them. I'm like, you guys should have Instagram. And I just started pitching and I soon had this. I had like a dozen of, like some of the top Treasure Valley, businesses I'm running creating all their social media. Nobody was doing it. So all of a sudden I'm like, what? What is happened? Because it happened fast. I mean, within months I had this whole fully functioning company. So I was like, I had this idea. Well, what if I started a page about my community? And I could organically talk about some of these businesses that I'm running and send people to them? It was just a very side thing. And, not my face at all. In fact, the first two years of Hello Meridian, nobody knew who ran it. It was a very because I was very aware of what would happen. Like what? I didn't know the extent, but I didn't. I had been public facing on my blog and I didn't want to do it. So, I started Hello Meridian, and it was like, I posted my favorite burger that I had found, and I did like a pretty park I liked in a sunset and like a sale at some store. And within I think a month it was almost 3000 followers, which was a lot. And I was having lunch with some of my girlfriends at Idaho Pizza Company, and one of them said, oh my gosh, you guys! I heard about the most amazing sale we have to go to. And I said, where did you hear that? And then like, oh, there is the most amazing page. And they're all like, oh my gosh, hello Meridian. And I'm like, oh. And I and I still I didn't tell them it was my. And I'm like all of a sudden I'm like, oh, okay, this, this is what I'm going to be doing. And yeah, it just it blew up real fast. But it was when at two years, I mean, it was doing very well, but when I put my face on the page and that's a whole other thing of why I chose to do that. That's when it just exploded, is when I started having a face and a personality. And this is what I think very personally. And then it would just it just went crazy. That's that's such a cool story. I love that I can't even imagine the excitement of that. And watching it. Yeah. Holy cow. It's doing this. Oh okay. This is do what a fun thing to be there and have people talking about and not realizing. Yeah you it was really cool. I was like this is cool. Yeah that's really cool. So you started off it wasn't you facing. Now it's very much so. Yeah. So tell me about that transition. Like because inside your own self and there was a reason why you weren't doing it before. So when then when you made the change, how did that change your life? Because people recognize you now. Yeah. Everywhere you go I'm sure. Yeah. So I started it in a place of very. I was very frail. I was very, like, scared in general because I had gone through a horrific experience. It was my third baby, on the table. And like, I lost the use of my right hand for a long time. I was very, very broken. And I realize I was in total shock for a long time, just really awful things. So I really started this from a place of like fear and scarcity, but also like, I was so aware after so many years of blogging that like, it's very it's it's very intense. The, the criticism and the, you really have to be in a very strong mental place to have such a forward facing business. You really need to be strong, which it's it's hard because I'm not always strong at this point. It doesn't matter. Like I don't have that choice. But at that that time I was like, I knew that was just not something I was ready for. And then as my strength started to grow, I started to see other missions that were very important to me that, things that became just as important, if not more important than the mission of sharing. So, local businesses and, I, I just saw so many women who, were really coming from a place of scarcity or felt so bad about themselves. And, I was I wanted to be very strong and, and just own our own that strength and power publicly, as I guess when you talk about influence, you have to be really aware of what the influences that you have and what is it going to be for the greater good. And I, I was at the point where I was like, this is important enough to be scary and to keep going. And my first time actually announcing my face was actually on a podcast with, Tommy All quest. And I was so scared, I was like, shaking. And I came home and I was like, crying because I'm like, what if it was terrible? And it took me weeks to even listen to it and listen to. And I was like, oh, I'm actually a pretty good podcaster. And, and then it was really well received. And I was like, okay, because that's the thing with this kind of stuff is that people think that when you're doing something, you just must be so brave. I'm like, no, we're not brave. We're just doing it scared. And then we get on the other side and we're not scared anymore. If you're not doing things, if you don't start sometimes in fear, you're not doing anything. And it was every step I've had has been extremely fearful and so much anxiety and like, am I as capable as I know I am? That doesn't mean that I always know it's going to be successful. Or so. Yeah. So then I did it. I did scared, and then I stopped being scared. And now I'm on your podcast and I'm just like, yeah, this is fun. Like it's it's no big deal. There's a there's a vulnerability to it all. And it particularly when you show your face, I think there's a strange vulnerability there. And I think that maybe one of the scariest things of all, when people are thinking about putting themself out there is, you know, what are people going to say and what is going to be that the feedback and how will I handle that? Yeah, you alluded to it a little bit. So it hasn't all been rainbows and butterflies. You've had. I use my daughter's language hair. You've had some shade thrown your direction sometimes. Yeah. And you see that I used it. So how how does one manage that? How do you manage that? How does, how do you so complicated. Because sometimes it it is intense. Not terrible. I'll say it's not at this point, like you'll go on some Facebook pages and there's just people who just hate influencers, like they just do, and it's just vitriol. And does that bother me? So do you do you want to see my life and, like, you know, fine. You hate that. That's fine. So that doesn't really affect me. And then, I'm I'm very open that I am a political independent in Idaho, and my views are constantly changing because I have critical thought and that radical, I know, crazy. And that makes people very angry. But I'm like, well, I don't care if you're angry that I, I believe that we can be we can move with it. You know, we don't have to worry about political parties. Like, if you're angry at that, then I don't really want you on my page. People have been very, very angry that I talk so openly about therapy. I'm like, why would I be mad about the people who need therapy the most? Being, you know, being. And that's not something, and, you know, the religious thing is definitely made people uncomfortable. I'm like, that's awesome. I love that my page is an algorithm breaker. And what I mean by that is that social media is designed to keep you in an echo chamber. Everyone is hearing the same thing over and over and over again to validate what they believe for their confirmation bias, because it keeps you in social media and people follow my page, and it's a page about the Treasure Valley. And but then all of a sudden they're like, whoa, whoa, why is she talking about going into meditation? And, you know, doing energy healing? I don't feel comfortable with that. That's not what people in Idaho do. Or why. Why is she talking about equality in household duties? Like, that's that's not what I want to see. That's not what I hear on a regular basis. And I feel a intense responsibility. Probably I deal with this in therapy. Why do I feel this? But I want to shake up the algorithm so people realize they're in their town. Maybe not everybody believes or lives exactly like them, because I think that causes empathy. And if it doesn't cause empathy and they're angry about it, do I really want them on my page? Right. So honestly, that isn't a big thing. Now, if they hated me because they thought my content was crap, I might be like, oh, maybe I should change my content. You know, that's some criticism that can be positive, but people not liking me because I'm not just like them is very validating for me that what an interesting perspective. I think the world would be different if we all felt that way. Maybe. Okay, so you touched on a little bit. There are some things that you say that some would find controversial, and you don't shy away from that. The one that I'm thinking of has been over a year ago now, and you were just talking about library books and about banning books, and I, I think that was the first time that I really paid attention. Like I had been following you for a while, but that was the first one I like, leaned in and watched a couple of different times. Number one, because you were putting on makeup while you were talking, which I was like fascinated by. Yeah, that was us that blew up. I would that was that was right before the TikTok shut down is what? Oh, because, you know, the, you know, censorship around TikTok. Okay. Yeah. So it's interesting, dude, because like, we all have deep feelings about various things, some things you are openly choosing to discuss and other things maybe less. So how do you kind of decide, or is it just a heart thing? Sometimes, like if I think about the things that are most important to me and I am, I'm writing a book and so I, I'm always thinking about things. If I'm really what's passionate, I, I want women to feel empowered and to understand what the societal things that we're being told, how it affects us physically and mentally, and to actually understand that that's my if I'm going to choose what I'm going to really push, it's that and I kind of gently do that on Real Housewives of Boise, because on Hello Meridian, it maybe isn't the best fit. So like when you really think about what fires you, I want to empower women to realize we're in a really dangerous situation in a lot of ways. But I have to be very careful how I do that in Idaho. And I had a terrifying experience with, needing reproductive care. That changed everything I thought about. I had to change all my, all my views on things, and I haven't talked so openly about that because I'm, I honestly am afraid of retribution. And and it just in it wasn't anything even crazy. It was just, I found out that a pregnancy could have killed me. And they we talked about what that could have looked like, and I was like, I could have been in a position that I just. I hadn't realized what it was actually like for women. And, and so for, for, I mean, that's been 12 years. I've had to look at some very hard truths of what I had believed about about that. And so that's something that I would like to talk about. But also I, I want to be safe. And, there are some very scary people. So that's what I really choose. And the reason for the book banning, I am against censorship. And, you know, I read all the books and it was when the library, the Meridian Library, was being attacked, and they actually called on me for help and they said, we need help now. And I was like, okay, let's go. I love library. We've gone to library, like for our whole as long as we've lived here. And so it was kind of like, can can you help us quickly go against these people who are running shut down the library district? I'm like, absolutely. So then that kind of moved inward that people saw me as that. I have I could do 20 things, you know, that. Could it be just, I'm just as passionate about, like, I, I'm a very complicated person. I mean, I'm, I write every day just to get that stuff out of my mind. That just happens to be the one that is so public. And yes, I do feel very strongly about it. But we could pick. I mean, that's one of the reason I had I started a podcast. But that stuff, because I, I, I'm constantly learning and and constantly evolving, like, a lot of things, I my answer on a lot of things has to be I don't know yet and I'm still figuring that out. So I can't remember what the initial question was that. Well, I think you answered it. Great. That was that was just terrific. I, I, I know this about you. It's one of my favorite things about you, and I think it's something that is, I think you have been instrumental in shifting in this very valley, and that is women supporting women. And I remember that as I was coming up as a young woman trying to do something, just make a career of figuring out what I wanted to be when I grow up and there for so many powerful women doing cool things that were stepping on people's heads to get, and, and, and I was ahead that got stepped on it many times and I it was so confusing to me. Why women in particular. You don't you didn't necessarily see that in in it necessarily with men or even with men lifting up women. That was just a different dynamic, I guess you would say. Yes. But women lifting up women is something that you very clearly do in your friendships that are there. You know, that you're sharing with with all of us and the things that you do. How tell me about that. As a you, have you always been there or was something was that a conscious decision that you were like, this needs to take place and I'm going to be a part of that? I think somewhat, I realized that, I mean, if you want me to start talking about the patriarchy, I started realizing that I was really, I had some massive trauma from my childhood and teenage years, in moving into college. And it it was caused by other women. And I realized that we are pitted against each other. I mean, it was just I could not believe the viciousness I was watching. And this competition in this comparison, I'm like, this is genius. What has been done? Because we're keeping each other down. Yeah. And I started to see more clearly and, and it was a very difficult process. I mean, I had to switch everything I'd ever believed about myself and about everything as I moved out of organized religion and, I just thought, what can I do? Because I'm a huge my big thing is, if people could understand that all you need to do is have influence in your sphere, whatever that sphere looks like, whether that's your home or your neighborhood or for me, it's a little bit bigger. If I think with this global consciousness that people are part of with social media, they get overwhelmed and think, I can't do enough. And it's and that that's heartbreaking because it it wasn't like that before social media as much. But whatever your sphere is, figure out what influence you want. I couldn't think of anything that would be more influential that I would feel more proud of is being the kind of woman who does not, is not, bothered by someone else who's more, who's more intelligent or more beautiful, more successful. I love that, like, I want to be surrounded by powerful women so that I can be powerful as well. And it just felt really good. And also then, honestly, it is very validating because when you're with really powerful, intelligent, cool women, you don't have to be pretend. You don't have to pretend. You're not that. Yeah, like, I can talk about what I'm doing, my ideas, and I'm not boasting to them. They're just like, vibing with me. Like, yes, let's make that happen. And they're coming in and they're telling me about this thing. And secondly, one of my girlfriends and she does what I do, but a much larger level. And she got like one partnership that was like $75,000 for like a very small amount of things she had to do. And I'm like, yes, do this. Go, let's go. Because everyone is doing that, is moving this along further. I just wanted to be different from these women who had been so awful to me as a teenager, and really just a lot of trauma of when I did not want to be, I did. I mean, I was, I got married young, I had children, I did all the things I was supposed to do, but I, I want I there was a lot more that I was also interested in and I that was just, I was just made to feel so much shame for my, my drive for my sexuality. And my heart breaks for my younger self. And I'm very much on this idea of our future self exists right now. We're just trying to meet her. And there were moments where I didn't understand at the time, but it was so clear that my future self was was calming me and driving me and showing me like, this is not okay. And so now I. I need to be that woman that took care of my younger self, and even more so. Powerful. I was interviewing Laura Tully. I don't know if you know. Okay. So and she was, was talking about she was in with a group and a group of women and they were, it was all like they were all kind of like working together. It all seemed like the up and up until like it broke up. And then there were a handful that were talking about one particular person saying that she was too much and she had this whole sheet. She stopped the conversation and said, let's talk about what does that mean? Yeah. And it was interesting that by the time they had disassembled it, they were all looking at themselves, realizing that they were labeling that because of stuff going on in their own background, in their own psyche and that kind of stuff. Sounds like you've done a lot of of that kind of work with yourself. Yeah. I mean, you really have to, because you have to always be looking inward and and I also made the mistake of just thinking, just because you're a woman, that you were safe like that was a big mistake. Is that I. I was just like, yes, we're all, let's all go. And I'm like, I need to be able to see red flags and women too. And that is actually been pretty recent in the last couple of years of realizing one thing really interesting, shocking is that just because people are nice to you doesn't mean they're nice. Especially if they want something from you. Yeah. And I it's harder to see red flags when everyone around you is just seems so great and that luckily, that hasn't been a big issue. But I have definitely been like, oh, I was just because she was also a woman. I thought, we're all, you know, this is a safe person to like, you know, work with or whatever. And I am like, no, no, I need to be much clearer. And I think that also comes with just middle age is you start to cut and you start to refine. And it's beautiful. I envy too, I agree it's the best, I agree, I and it's interesting, we get help if we get help, hormonally and, and, and it's just like it. Yes. You're able to step in for me at just a much more authentic version of myself and a lot less nail biting, literally a lot less of that, a lot less of just nervous energy about overthinking things. And and then there's sometimes there's just moments of clarity that and, you know, it could be just a hormonal shift. But man, when I have those moments of clarity, I'm like, run like, that's what you're supposed to be doing right now. Do it. Well, those hormonal things that change, like they're powerful because we we have this nurturing drive to take care of everyone. And so we do. And then when that shifts, it's not that that like, that's the cause of it. It's kind of like this haze is moving away and we start to see ourselves and we start to see, why am I doing this? Asking these questions that we just aren't taught to ask. Why am I making everyone else feel good? Why am I not the main character of my own life? That's crazy. I mean, I my children are the main character. Their life. My husband's the main character of his life. Why on earth would I not be the main character of my own life? I don't have to be the main character of your life or anyone else's, but it didn't make any sense. But I feel like that's this gift of arriving in middle age is like, if you've gotten to the point where you can start asking these questions because you might double down, there are people who really double down. And then, we're probably not going to be friends, but, this haze kind of shifts and, you know, people think their wives are going crazy when really they're just like, I'm seeing more color and I don't know what to do with it. And, so I, I've loved the hormonal stuff. Not all of it. Some of it's like, why? Why is this happening? Why did I not know more about perimenopause? But yeah, why why am I awake? And it's 3 a.m., 3 a.m. and then everything's wrong with the world, no matter what it is at 3 a.m.. Yes, I actually did that last night. That's fine, that's fine. Yeah. And I, you know, I'll go for these long periods of time when everything's all set and I'm not doing that. And then I. And then I hit a little rut. Yeah. I'll be like, why. Yeah. Yeah. Magnesium has helped me. Yes. It's huge. Yeah. It's huge. So how about your spouse? Can we talk about your spouse? Sure. Because I think. And I think about the same way about my spouse. I, I'm so grateful that he's the type of person that sees me as who I am and wants me to be more whole every day. And I see that in your relationship as well. You have a supportive man in your life who, supports what you're doing, and I, I feel like maybe I'm making this up in my own head. But I kind of feel like he's like, I'm in on that, too. Like, I'll let me. Yeah. Shane is going through his own journey like. Yeah, it's funny, we just think we're a normal couple. And then we get together with people and they're like, nobody talks like this. Like the way we talk with each other. It is very. It's very intense. Like we are so focused on, healing and then the finding ourselves and that all sounds like very, buzzwords. But, he, he's had to change his thoughts on so many things, but also his relationship again with capitalism. And he's worked in an extremely male dominated very just don't know stop no break. And he's like, this is crazy. And so now together we're trying to figure out what does that look like and what can we do that that that fires him and what's great about Shane is and well, we're celebrating 25 years this year. It's crazy. Wow. We've been married a long time, but, regulation. Thank you. Is that we genuinely want the other person to be happy as, like, our main goal, like, easily. And I think that's where things shift a lot with couples is if one person's really, really wants one person to be happy and the other person not so much that there's going to be some major problems. But we make choices for each other's happiness every day. And I just was on a girls trip and I leave, and he's doing everything at home without needing to ask me questions like, we I don't worry that the kids are taking care of because he's a grown ass adult. Yeah, and he can take care of our family as much as I. Well, honestly, much better because we've actually switched roles in the last two years where he is over. He is running the household and I'm the main breadwinner. And that has been so epic because I realize how much pressure had been on him for so long. And I can I can see so much of what he's been going through, and he's finally getting why I was losing my just just everything for so long. Our kids aren't little anymore. So he didn't quite get that. But, I think sometimes I people will ask me, like about my success or whatever that whatever that looks like. And the first thing I always comes to my mind is like, ladies, you gotta you got to be with somebody who you can thrive with because that is the number one thing is that if you're with a partner that is focusing on these limiting beliefs or doesn't want you to change, or doesn't want to be uncomfortable or wants to go golfing every Saturday but doesn't understand, you also, then probably should be doing something on your own for six hours a week. Like if you don't have that, you're fighting a pretty vicious battle. And I think when I see divorce and I, you know, you hear, you hear these guys, they just say, oh, she just went crazy. And that's the biggest red flags like every woman because we're like, oh yeah, let's talk about why she went crazy and how many things she was saying before she went crazy. And and every time I hear that from a man, I'm like, tell me more. And I just, I, I delight in him as a human. He is so he is just so wonderful to be with. And I think, I don't think I could do this at all if I didn't have his support. I, I didn't know that, we're in similar situations as my beloved Clint takes care of. He. He is the person who runs the household. Absolutely. And and it's such a game changer. I, in a prior life, was the crazy woman you were talking about. Yes. I was I was a total nut. And, and then and now, not that I was, but that was the perception. Yeah. Because I decided to to make a change and go and leave my partner. Yeah. And, and then and then I met Clint, and, like, it was like the clouds parted and, you know, and because he was so. And it wasn't even like a 5050 kind of a thing, like he was working so hard to to make sure that he was supporting me. And he continues to I still pinch myself because he's such an incredible human. And I love the fact that both of our husbands are cool with and that I'm cool with it. They're doing it like it's it's phenomenal. And yeah, I think I actually think a lot more men would be happy if they took that role on because, yeah, it you know, I think some men are fantastic at it. And that's why he's great. He's actually so he hit what he's moving into, which is really fun is he is he does. Or is it organizational development for companies? But he's also creating a coaching program for middle aged men who are struggling to really find themselves and figure out what they want to do in the next half of their life. And he has this incredible curriculum of talking through basically figuring out why they're doing things, what their relationship is with their their spouse. It's really cool because he's taking all this time and all this, this space that he's taken to figure himself out, to be like, this is so needed. And it's so it's really cool because then we can talk about that in our built in entrepreneur. So that's awesome. Yeah. Very cool. Okay, I want to say it was this fall, or maybe it was the summer you decided publicly that you were going to. I think it was meditate on a regular basis or some something. They republic my my slow down like a very public. Yes, yes. Can you tell us about that and then this and because you've alluded to it several times, this in this conversation, just this, this transformation within you, and I don't know whether to call it, I guess I would call it spiritual, but it's like meditative and sort of. Can you talk about that journey a little bit with us? I mean, spirituality is really just you and how you connect to something bigger. And religion is just a membership program to give you all the rules to it. That's all. That's all that is. And I like that. I don't need a membership where I pay money and and do a list of things like I basically it's a middleman. So and that's fine if that works for you. Absolutely. My whole family's super religious. If you want that middleman or you want that box membership, go for it. But spirituality outside of religion is just is a lot more clear, cleaner and just much more direct. So I believe there's something greater and I believe in the energies of the universe. And I also believe that I'm big into timeline hopping. So that's just this idea that you're trying to make new, neural pathways so that you can get to a future version of yourself that's waiting for you. But if you do the same thing all the time, you'll never get there. So I do a lot of things and sometimes you have to change. And my husband really broke this down so well last night when I was kind of stressing about some of my slowdown. He's like, Natalie, your your soil needs to be replenished. That just you've harvested so much. You've got it. That's that's all this is because he's trying he's trying to help me with the slowdown. But you know, when you're bringing in all the money, it's scary. Yeah. But I have really gotten into meditation. I meet with a group of women, almost every morning at seven, and we do a via zoom and a guided meditation, and then I'm, you know, working on that on my own. I'm doing this whole thing of a very a meditative gratitude. This is what I'm moving into now. I could do so many podcast, so just but, I love it because women so there's a lot of information out there that would say that the way you talk to your body has real repercussions. And women have been taught to hate their bodies. And we wonder why women are so sick. I'm like, this is the most genius ploy of the patriarchy is to make us hate ourselves so much that we are actually physically sick. That and we see our bodies as our enemies. So I've been doing these. There's basically bodily gratitude. So like I was in the shower today and I was washing my face and I was like, thank you so much for the ability to feel this water on my skin. And I stretch. I'm like, thank you for the way that my muscles carry me. Because when we talk to our body, it's always negative. Like when we're in pain, we're we're focused on it. When we're sick, we're wishing we weren't. And oh, I wish I didn't look this way. And and I'm like, what is it. The concept it's very common like meditation is thank you and I love you. And to truly love your body. But so specifically like, thank you so much that my knees aren't going out. But I wouldn't say like that because that's actually a negative. You'd say, thank you so much for carrying me up these stairs and bringing me to this new place. Thank you so much. And like anyway, so it's like a whole mind shift of like, how do you connect to a higher energy in higher place? And, you know, whether you call that prayer or whatever it is, it doesn't matter. You can use the membership terms if you want. I don't I purposely try to use everything out of membership terms, but, it's it is like I don't want to be like proselyting here, but it's joy. Like, I just didn't know could exist. Like I just felt in religion. So stuck, like something was screaming. Like there is more. But I was the person who was asking all the questions and they're like, just have faith. And like, what does that mean? And then I was like, I just had this. I mean, it took me years to to move out, but I was just like, I just had this moment of like, it's time. And I needed to reach that higher version of myself. And I mean, it's it's a lot. And I know people are uncomfortable with that. I love it, like, I absolutely love it. Like I'm not uncomfortable with it. I, I'm with you. I on my own similar journey as far as that's concerned. There's a big part of, the religion that I grew up with where, women were definitely less than, did not have an equal place. And, and yet we're supposed to have that same, you know, faith and. Yeah. Like what? You don't have faith in me. I know this is working, so I feel I feel the same way. And I it is life changing. And I think I understand I'm not a brain scientist, but I from what I've read, literally rewiring our own circuits. When we do these things for ourselves, we give ourselves space to do it. And I it was one of the things that I recommended to my daughter that I still am hoping she will pick up on, because she's in college and she's got all these things going, and if she just takes a little bit of time to be quiet. Yeah. And you don't have to be good at it. Like there's no, like, pressure about any of it. You do it the way that you can do it. But if you can take those quiet moments that literally will change you and yeah, and you are good at it, you just maybe haven't got to that place yet. Yeah. Like you are all those things already. That's one of the huge things. Like when you talk about success, it's like you already are. You already are in the best shape your life. You just it's just a future version of yourself that is waiting for you to arrive there and just. And that's when you meet with so many people. Like this is like the whole conversation changes and it is just. And there is no shame and there is. It is just it's just this I mean, it's it's overused, but it's this high vibration and there's low vibrations of fear and anger and it's like they keep you, they keep you in this, in this rut. And you're when you're moving into this high vibrations of gratitude and love and acceptance and it's like it's brighter there and the people are brighter. And of course, it's scary for people because you can't control those people and you can't charge them. And, you know, you can't tell them that they have to live this certain way. And in a capitalistic society where one of our biggest earners are churches, that's very scary. To say we don't need that membership to find unbelievable connection to the divine. That's a that and that will. So there will be people who will do anything they can to make that look like it's an evil thing. And then people on this side were like, this is the loveliest thing I could experience as a human. So, you know, anyway, we could do a whole podcast and I could do a whole podcast series on that. Yes, yes. Yeah. Well, speaking of gratitude, I'm going to take a moment to thank our sponsor. This episode of Nobody Knows is brought to you by Zamzows, your local source for garden, pet and planet friendly products. Whether you're tending a backyard or building a community online, it takes care and intention. Is it sounds intercom or stop by one of our 12 Treasure Valley locations? Nobody knows like Zamzows. Okay, we're shifting gears. Okay, let's shift into a the part of the episode that we call sharing is caring. Or as I like to call it, rapid fire questions. Oh, okay. Yeah. Although they're not that rapid fire, you can take your time in answering them. So here we go. First question, how about a local spot that you never get tired of recommending? I mean, I did on the say on the last podcast, I love all Yankees Russian cuisine. It is just my favorite restaurant. The people are amazing. It's just I was on diners, Drive-Ins and dives talking to Guy for Fieri about it. Like, I'm like, and I'm so passionate. Like, I love, love, love, love them. And that's the place. As a family we always go at Christmas. It is so special to go there. That's where we just all know. Like when Shane and I have like a big moment when we went back to Boise for like our podcast, immediately we booked a reservation at all Yankees. Like it's just a place. It's very, very special. We love it too. And, I think they might have the best dessert in Boise. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Big selection. So Vegas selection? Yeah. You think it's Ritz, honey cake? The pavlova. Yes. So? So good. Yeah. And unique. Their unique flavors. So wild. Yeah. Very good. And the people are so nice. Yes. Helena is like, And Dan. Oh, my gosh, we did a podcast with them. We're crying like, as they're talking. And he's the most supportive human. And I'm like, oh my gosh, we love you so much. And after that Shane's like, you do anything you can to make them successful. I'm like, it's I don't have to. They're so successful anyway. But I'm like, yeah, sure. Yeah, that's a great answer. All right. How about a small business that you've fallen in love with recently? So, old Speak Bar is in Garden City, and, it's actually started by my friends and years ago, I remember them talking about this idea. So basically, it is a bookstore and brewery. And they have made it into the most beautiful space. You can also get tea and nonalcoholic drinks, but they have this huge curated bookstore, and then they have this little gallery and they have little things you can buy, but it's just beautiful and wonderful at 21 and older. And, it's very inclusive and just really I mean, the books are phenomenal. Like you go in there, the books are going to be good and I was so honored because they asked me for the first, like, I think six months they were open. They had a Hello Meridian shelf where I curated everything on there, and it was just like a lot of feminism and like, you know, like sapiens. And I just got to put all all of these books. And that was honestly, it was so fun. I was like, this is the moment. And it's like, this is the moment. I'm like, yeah, like, I went to school for four years and I didn't use any of that, and now I'm using it. And anyway, so I just think everyone should, should go there and just, even if you just get T and sit and just enjoy the space, like, 100%, I know where I'm going. That sounds like a great place. Okay, how about a creator, a book or a podcast that is inspiring how you think about community or storytelling right now? Okay, I'll be super honest. I don't listen to anything that has to do with my job because I'm very overwhelmed by my job. And also I kind of like do it however I want to. And so I am not. I don't follow anyone who talks about this. I just kind of want to live it. What I'm listening to is pretty much anything that's kind of getting me to a higher, plane of thought. So I just finished Joe Dispenza, Doctor Joe Dispenza, becoming supernatural, which was very heady. And, really, if you're listening, you'd be like, what are you listening to? And a lot of hard science. I'm really interested in that. Not that I'm always comprehending it, but I feel like if it kind of hurts my brain a little bit and I have to rewind it over and over again, then. Then I'm probably creating more neural pathways. And my therapist says that I need to read more fun books. So I actually bought Fourth Wing. Actually, I actually willed this into the universe. This is funny. I'm. I'm at the book. Sorry. I was at Shared Stories in Caldwell. It's just a wonderful bookstore. If you've never been to shared Stories. Oh my gosh, they just expanded. It's so great. And it's again very inclusive. It's beautiful. So I go there and I bought like another like quantum physics book and I was like thinking I need to read a book for fun. I need to be the person who can do that. I need to get fourth wing because everyone told me I walk in and fourth wing is on my counter. And my daughter, who, works at a bookstore, said, I just had this thought that you really should read this. And she hadn't even read it. And I was like, I mean, seriously, it's if I told you the things that have happened to me by just putting things into the universe, it's crazy. It's crazy. Just the things that, well, the people I'll run into that I was like, I need to talk to this person, because when you when you're actively asking the universe to connect with you, it happens. So I can't answer that question in, in in a way that is probably helpful. But if anyone looked at my Goodreads account, they'd be like, you are insane. Like, what are you reading? But so yeah, me too. But different reasons. I'm all over the board. I so yeah, I've got I've got a kind of can I just really quickly just ask you about I, I feel what you're saying as far as you put energy out in the universe and it's the law of attraction, right? You put it out there when your own kid does it. Like there's an added element of just pure love and connection. When that happens, it's just the best thing ever. I just when you said it was your daughter, like, I kind of go misty, I was like, I just love that. Yeah. My kids are really, I'm I'm very proud that we the way that we raised them. They're very kind, open humans and definitely on their own paths. And not anything I would have expected, which is absolutely wonderful. But I, we we've moved them from being so rigid, I think in time that they, they're going to have a much easier path than Shane and I did. Yeah. I hope that for my daughter as well. Yeah. Yeah. Well already she's doing things that I would have probably loved to do about at that age. Didn't even have. I just didn't even know that you could. Yeah. So yeah, it's pretty great. Okay. Last thing, this is not the last question. This is just the last of the rapid fire, right? Something that's grounding you right now. Something that is grounding me right now. I am so aware that I have an unhealthy relationship with work and producing and progressing. And I believe that there is this. I. I'm a pretty calm person, but I, I know that there is this future version of me who is so calm and confident and unhurried and un manic and un frantic, who is playful and who is slow and is joined every moment. And I'm real close to her. I can hear her. And so I am. I am moving to meet her in every like in just the way that I. I wash my face in just more intentional and thinking and, so knowing that I'm really close to meeting this version of myself waiting is just, it's just allowing me to to bring that into fruition. That's so beautiful. I am going to try to wear this in the right way, but because I don't want to say it as future, but that cow, that version of Kelly, it's also there. And it'll be fun in that version of Kelly and that version of Natalie. Sit down again. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll be very cool. I'd love that answer. Okay, this is the last question. Okay. The question we ask everybody. Yes, there are no rules. And it doesn't have to be that nobody actually knows. Somebody could actually know. Yeah. Here's the question. What is something that nobody knows okay I have a lot of these. And I actually went down with my friends. I was like, which one? And none of them fit. And then I was driving home like, oh, I know this is the most random thing ever. So my family moved like, my my mom's family's from Pendleton, Oregon. And they're really big saddle makers, like famous saddle makers. And, we all my family also runs the Pendleton underground and brothels. For tours. And this is it's so random because we are all very religious, but then we also had our very cowboy sides. And so we had all these cousins, girl cousins, we all I mean, there were like 12 of us all within like a few years. And every year they have this something called the come to life, where it's live actors kind of like if you went to a scary, like a haunted, haunted world and there's live actors and we would go to be the prostitutes in the brothels and we would dress in 1930s prostitute attire, all of us, and we're just hanging out in our corsets. And then we would be interacting with the guys like, hey, do you want to come inside? Oh, hi. And like my mom, who was a very gifted actress and very beautiful, she was the madam and she would and it was totally normal and I didn't think anything of it. And then my, my get married and I say, oh, hey, we got to go down to come slide. And I explained he's like and whatnot. And he actually was a pretty good actor and in high school and like, or in high school. And I was like, you should do this with me. So he dresses up as my John and that year they make me the like sophisticated for your girl who like is into. And we made out in front of people for like 12 hours and I and now I look back because somebody actually it came to my mind because somebody said, oh, do you and Shane have an only fans? And I'm like, well, technically we have, you know, we have made out, you know, professionally in front of people anyway. So and then it wasn't until, you know, later I was like, that's kind of weird. You know, but is super normal. I didn't think anything of it. And and they. Yeah. And they actually were talking about that, I think on some big ghost hunter show that just came out in December. And we were very aware also of the ghost that were there and how we needed to interact with her. And, and now looking back, I'm like, that's not what most people do when they hang out for a family. And it's how we did. So, Natalie, you are so delightful and your nobody knows is you're kidding me and how delightful you are. I love that story. I absolutely love that story. I love the visuals. I love the way you told the story. Everything about it. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing that. I. I can't wait to share with my husband. I just have so great. It's awesome. Thank you for everything you're doing in the community. Thank you for being you and showing other women how to just be ourselves and be okay in our own skin. And and thank you for everything that you're, that you're doing for yourself as you come closer to this version that you are going to be. Thank you. Yeah. I honor you. And gosh, I'm glad you were on this podcast today. I'm really grateful. Thank you. And thanks for having me. Yeah, absolutely. If you enjoyed today's conversation, be sure to follow the podcast and leave a review. And if you want to follow along with Natalie, you can find her online at hello Meridian. Next week, we'll hear from another incredible voice shaping the Treasure Valley. And until then, thanks for listening.