Welcome to the Nobody Knowz podcast with Callie Zamzow Join us for conversations with local changemakers and hear the stories that don't always get told. It'll be honest, messy and beautiful. Touching and humorous. Slow down for a glass and pull up a chair. This is the Nobody Knows podcast. Welcome to Nobody Knowz. I'm your host, Callie Zamzow, and happy New year. I, I am thrilled to be starting this new year at 2026. 2025 was such a a big year for me personally that moving into 2026 just feels, a little bit, a lot. That's, if that's the thing. And the reason why I say that is that, there there is. We're in a space with our family business where there are three generations involved, and every time we move into a new, you know, a new chapter, i.e. a new year, we are looking at things and we're examining things and we're thinking about the future. And what struck me as I was thinking about it is that we have three generations who look at change completely differently. So we have my dad's generation. He obviously is, he's thinking of things more, as a legacy and, and a lot of, of his knowledge, he's, he's obtained all through the years, and he wants to make sure that that that holds and that our values hold. My brother and I are in kind of that middle generation were the ones running the company. We're currently steering things. Obviously we're managing growth and risk and, modernization and things like that. And then we actually have one more generation. My daughter will, she works in the summertime, so she's not full time at the stores, but my nephew and my niece both work in the stores. And, as the youngest generation, they see the future as more of an open canvas and hope and, and reimagining things. And so there's this very interesting balance that's happening amongst the three generations. And I'm very grateful that the three of us communicate, and that we are able to kind of share our ideas and have that going on. But I was I was thinking about that. I'm like, well, that I'm feeling that because it's family business. But maybe many of you are also feeling that because we're a part of families and we have generations, you know, that are around us that we that are influencing us. And so, like I said, I'm just now waxing off. I don't even know what I'm talking about. I just want you. I guess I just want everybody to enter this season, and this new year with Hope. And with that, I would like to thank our sponsors and those, we really appreciate their sponsorship of this podcast. And, have a tip of the week that I'd like to share. And it has to do with wild bird feeding. So, I think a lot of times, well, first of all, you know, it's winter time. So I think a lot of times this is when people think about feeding wild birds because it's cold. And, you know, some of the things that they could find in the wild become a little bit more difficult this time of year. But it really matters that you choose a good quality feed for your birds. When you have a low quality feed, there are a lot of, you know, cheap fillers and very often, they're, they're seeds that maybe aren't necessarily for this area or for the birds that are in this area. They, cheap bird seeds can, can actually have, you know, things that the birds will kick out onto the ground, which then will attract rodents. And, and then that kind of sets off a, a not great experience with feeding birds. So you want to you want to choose something that is a high quality bird seed. And my favorite is the Zamzow's no sprouts. I like it because when the seeds inevitably do fall on the ground that they don't turn into weeds. So I like that part of it. But it also brings a lot of birds to my yard. And, and I really love that. Also, another thing to think about, two more things to think about in the winter time. One is water. Make sure that there is a water source for your birds. And I put a little heater in there. You can get those examples as well. Keeps the, the water from from freezing. And then also you might consider adding suet this time of year. Suet cakes. And so it feeders for the insect eaters. So there's your tip of the day your exams as tip of the week I should say. And now I'm going to introduce our guest, which I'm very excited about. This is a friend of mine, which I always love when a friend is in the studio and, she is actually a, has a really cool story and quite a lot of things she's done. She's an author. I would love to figure how to talk about that. She's a master gardener, which is how I know her. She's a former KTVB journalist, and she's the former Bogus Basin spokesperson. And she also has these children that have amazing stories. And she's just a really wonderful person. So please welcome into the studio, Gretchen Anderson. Hi, Callie. That was, wow. No one's introduced me like that lately. It's usually, hey, this is my mom. I know that introduction. Absolutely. Thank you for being here. I, I really enjoy our time together because you are. You're a really, vibrant human being, so being around you is fun. You just. Thank you. You have this great energy, and you always have these interesting ideas. I mostly know you through master gardening and, and we're on the social media teams, so we so there's always these ideas rolling around, and you're so well-spoken and just and you're also stylish, like, there's just so many things about you that I like. So I'm so grateful that you're here and that we get to talk a little bit about all the things that you've done and that you're doing. Oh, Callie hold on, on. Wow. Well, I mean it. I mean every word of it. Thank you. So before we get going too far, do you want to kind of just quickly tell everybody kind of who you are. Sure. Quick. Yeah. Yeah. Because there are a lot of new people in this valley. Right, right. Which is kind of cool because, to be honest, less and less, I get recognized, you know, out, you know, out in the community, which is actually not a bad thing. You know, came here in 88, to work for channel seven. Prior to that, I was very, very familiar with Idaho. My dad, came up to Idaho, and bought Palmer Mountain Resort, the ski resort outside of Burley. And so. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I'd been in in Idaho since the early 70s, hanging out at Palmer Hill. And so, I was over in Pocatello, and then I, I kind of got recruited by Ktvb and loved my time there, loved it, stayed there for about ten years and then had the opportunity to strike out on my own. And that's when I started my own business, called Communication Outsource. And, I contracted with Bogus Basin, that after several years before I said I will never work in the ski business again. It drew you back and it did. It did? Well, I understood the differences between like a a ball wheel and a shovel on a on a lift. And so, the wonderful managers at, at Bogus said, hey, come on and work for us. You can do it from your home. And I was a, contractor, and it allowed me to raise my little family and, and also raise them up on the mountain. So, you know, all all five of our kids were at the mountain every winter. That's so cool. And then, left thereafter. I wrote a couple books. One did really well, and, actually kind of went back to work for my family. And I've been doing that ever since. I have been helping them with marketing at Palmer Hill. But, you know, wrote, wrote this chicken book that has, you know, had a couple printings and, and probably needs an update and another printing and, and I had friends, good friends. In fact, Mary used to do the Zamzows podcast, and she said, Gretchen, you need some street bread. You better go. You better go to, and get your certification as a master gardener, because through the through the book for the chickens, there was a line of sustainability. You know, throughout it. And so I did that. And then the next, obvious thing you do is you go get your master food safety advisor, certification, which is, a long title for somebody who can, take the food that you get from your garden and properly preserve it so you don't kill anybody, right? Yeah. Yeah, that is key. Yeah, that is key. And it's been it's been a loads of fun and I've so enjoyed it and I've continued with all of that. So I'm now kind of, into that whole sustainability thing and, and my husband, came home after 20, you know, no more than that. But in 2018, he traveled, traveled, traveled because he ran restaurants and and we, bought three restaurants here in the Valley. And, and managed them through Covid. And then in 22, we said, uncle, uncle, you know, I can't even imagine. Yeah, yeah. And so since 2022 or 23, the, the years escaped me, but, now we're empty nesters and we're I'm right on the edge of retirement, so it's really cool, you know? So much to do. And I swear to God, we are so much more busy, it seems, than we ever were. So it's pretty cool stuff. So that's it in a nutshell. Yeah. How's that? Well, this is heated up perfectly, and now we can kind of dive into some of the things that you, that you mentioned. Can we start with the journalism. Sure. And, and can you share with us kind of what drew you into that? Good question. I, I knew, I knew I wanted to be a writer in grade school, like fifth grade. I said, I like this. I like being able to express myself and tell stories. So I've been writing since, since that time. And, through high school was on the newspaper staff and all that stuff, and, and then, thought I'd get a job with the Utah Holiday magazine because I was born and raised in Salt Lake, and, that fell through various reasons. And I ended up spending two years, two gap years before I went to college and went over to University of Oregon, where they had a crack journalism program and went hung out there for four years. And and then after that, I think Kelly, I and I knew because I had been in radio, I started in radio and, and right when I was 18 years old. But I knew that I got, I got a job in Eugene Springfield as a reporter, and I was in the right room at the right second, not the right place at the right time. It it was more granular like that. Wow. We need a reporter. You free? Yeah. Come on. And so that's how I got my first reporting job. Went from there to Pocatello and then up here to Boise. I loved it, and and after I left channel seven, I continued to write, I wrote, humor column for a paper that is no longer in business, but a paper out in Eagle Middleton, you know, a small paper that served that area, star that area. And it was a boy. It was a lot of fun, a humor column, because I could I could write about anything I wanted. That's awesome. And it was fun. So what do you think it is about writing that that you like so much? I think, turn of phrase. Yeah. Has a lot of fun. You know, you have a beginning, a middle and an end in terms of writing and, often when I wrote that humor column, I, you know, I'd start it and I and I'd be definitely thinking about the end because I wanted to turn a phrase, you know, in it. I also think that writing, for me at least, might be what my husband gets when he crunches numbers. He gets all giddy. And, you know, digs him. And if the numbers work out, it's like a little endorphin rush or a runner who gets that endorphin rush. Yes, that's what writing does for me. Yeah, I feel the same way. I, and also, it's funny because my husband is also the one who would get a rush over numbers. So I get the same. I get that same thing, I, I find, when I read something that somebody else has written that is magical for you, just it makes you think. And then you got to think again and you read it again. There's something really I, I mean, it literally is life changing for me. It can be very profound. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Even even in, television right now. In fact, Buster and I, my husband, Buster, we were watching ghosts last night. We're trying to catch up on, you know, we were streaming it, and there was such clever writing. You know, I just wanted to rewind it and listen to it again because the writing was so clever. I love that I sometimes I think in another life I, you know, maybe could write for SNL or something like that. Wouldn't that be fun? You go girl. Although wouldn't that be exhausting? I mean, I mean, it is. If you've ever read, Tina Fey's book about the whole, you know, process of writing it, it is. I think it is exhausting. But I think they're on adrenaline all the time. And that endorphin push, you know. Yeah, absolutely. What is, looking back, is there something that you, that you've written that that makes you particularly proud or that you, that you're like, oh, yeah, that was like that was it. That was the thing that I wrote that I was like, yeah, that's great, because I, you know, there's a lot out there. I, I am very proud of the chicken book that I wrote, but I think that the coolest thing that I did and still gets airplay, I wrote and produced and worked with a fabulous photographer, a piece called The Fading Fish, and it's with the, department. Is with Fish and Game for Idaho. And it was about salmon and steelhead and how they are anadromous, meaning they can go from from freshwater to, to saltwater. But the crux of the story is, is our decline in in salmon in Idaho. And it's it's a sad deal, but I wrote it and and we filmed it in the the style of the Kratts brothers. If you've ever seen the Kratts brothers on oh, like Wild Kratts. Yeah, yeah, like that. I have plenty of that. When I was little. Course, didn't we. All right. That and and Bill Nye the Science guy. So I got to ride it for fourth graders. And that's, that's where it was served, was to all of these wonderful fourth graders in all of Idaho. Wow. But, I don't think a fourth grader is going to come up to me and go, hey, Gretchen, nice work on that video. But I did get parents and I got older people always coming up to me saying, hey, I saw your fish video. And that was really good. And I thought, maybe I need to dial it back and write more for a fourth grade level. Well, that's tricky that when trying to trying to get a fourth grader to understand something and from from their perspective like the. So you had to do some, some work to like start at the start at the end and work I really do. Yeah, I really did. It was a lot of fun, a lot of fun. And it's an award winning piece and you can find it on YouTube these days, which is, even more cool. I'm going to look it up. Yeah. The fading fish. The fading fish. I love it. Oh, gosh. That. Yeah, yeah, I could go on and on about the writing. Let's. Well, let's do keep talking about the writing and let's talk about the chicken book. Let's that this is the thing that I. So when I first started to get to know you, it was, it was all Master Gardener stuff. And then I quickly learned that you are this chicken guru. So tell us about the book. The book came about, it was published in 2011, believe it or not. And it still has legs, which is just surprising me every day. And it came about because I wrote, I read an article in the New Yorker magazine about people fighting for the right to have chickens in their backyard. You know, the simplest thing? Why do they have to fight? Well, they're fighting their municipalities, their their cities or the counties, because there just weren't really any, rules to it when it when, when it took off, when the fad took off. But, you know, this is long term. I don't think it's so much as a fad. And so I wanted to find out what was happening in Idaho, and I wanted to find out what was happening across the country. And I soon learned that it was huge across the country. There were fights everywhere. So the name of the book is the The Backyard Chicken Fight, and it's a play on words, meaning that these people have to fight for the right to keep hens in their backyard. At that time, Idaho was a chicken loving state, but we've had some fights here for sure. In in the past. But I wrote about all sorts of fun stories, and I'm a humorist at heart, so, you know, the funny ones really kind of sat with me. The poignant ones, of course, are in there as well. And then I also worked with, one of your long time employees at Zamzows who taught me a great deal about chickens. I had chickens when I was a kid and when I when I worked with Mike Stanton from Zamzows I realized we did everything wrong. And those chickens still survived. So. So, you know, it was it was a great education. And I put it all in a guide and and a sweet little book that's easy to read. And it's quick. I'm, I'm a fan of if you're going to tell me what to do, please just make it quick between point A to point B, get to the facts and let's move on. Yeah, very tack tactical on that. And and it's, it's still I, I'm still teaching people how to keep chickens and what to do in the winter time. And I've taught from coast to coast. I've been all over the place. And fortunately, I was in in Costco for a while with the book. And so it's done very well. Yeah, I think it's a it's a wonderful guide for people. I think that well, I know that because we see it that the chicken fad kind of comes in waves. So it kind of like so they'll be really, really big year. So that last year this this year I guess. Well the 2025 whether you're just ended big, big spring chicken year. Right. And it kind of goes in waves is do do you know why that is. Do you have okay. Tell us about that. Egg recalls. Yeah. Salmonella. And getting eggs from what they call k those big factory farms, that sort of thing. And when there's a recall of 500,000, cartons of eggs, you know, over and over again, or half a million, you know, to a million eggs, then you know, that that, people want to be more responsible and one and, and own where their food comes from. Yeah. And, you know, our food mile Callie as you well know, is 1500 miles. That's farm to fork. And when you can go out back and, Galen, Oprah, the two girls in the coop, their best friends are laying you two eggs a day, and you can make your own breakfast. You are significantly, you know, lowering your personal food mile. So it's it's a good thing and you can make it a lot healthier in the sense that what we do with our chickens happens to the eggs. So absolutely, we can make our eggs healthier for us. And I always think it's interesting, when people start to, you see, it's like flare up on social media and people are like, well, why is this egg yolk so yellow? Like it's almost orange? Yes, yes. Cool story. I taught a class out in Caldwell once, and a lady in the back, got up and she she raised her hand and she said, I just have to tell you, you got to warn your neighbors. You know, you got to warn your neighbors about these fantastic eggs. She said. I handed a dozen eggs over to my neighbors over the fence. And, week later, I found out they threw them all away because the yolks were orange. So you had to tell them why. And if you don't know why, backyard chicken eggs are more nutritious for you. The the more brilliant color is caused because they have a more varied diet and they get sunshine and they get to run and flap their wings and that sort of thing. They're happier. They're happy hens. And and, I say this to people and they think I'm nuts, but if you've been around chickens, they have personalities. They're they're wonderful birds. They are. And they're very interesting and, and and they are pet like, they can they, you can actually hold them and, you know, I mean, depending upon how they were raised and all that fun stuff. But they're wonderful. They are my kids. I once told my kids that my chickens bring me joy and they said, mom, you need to get a lot. But you're right. They're entertaining and they're they're they're fun. And you know, you know which one likes you more and which one's the top of the the roost. And you know, all that good stuff. And it's a fun it's a fun thing. I enjoy it. Yeah. It's great. I encourage anybody who's semi thinking about doing it and has the space for it to consider doing it. I think it's, I think it's a wonderful thing. Of course, there might be a little bit of a fight, although what is the current situation. Maybe you know this, maybe you don't. What's the current situation as far as, being within Boise city limits and having chickens, do we know what the current. What you're good question. Many years ago, there were a bunch of, wannabe chicken keepers who were also attorneys, and they went to work on a agriculture, well, ordinance. There you go. Yeah, that's the word I was looking for agriculture ordinance. And, they came up with, chickens for, for example, you could have six chickens in the city of Boise prior to that, I want to say it was three. And people kept, you know, I'm, I'm and you know, they kept like, seven chickens and they sure, they all look alike and just let three out of it. Right, right. But they, they, they approved six chickens. They also, approved, being able to share vegetables from your garden and fruit and, and maybe even selling it. And it was very thoughtful. And, these, these wonderful people, just ran through city council, Boise. And they approved it. No problems whatsoever. Well, there you go. Yeah, we have we have some attorneys to that who are chicken loving attorneys. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. Good story. Thank you for telling us that. Okay, can we shift gears to Bogus Basin? And part of the reason why I want to do this is that before I ever even knew you as a person, you were the voice in the morning telling us what the snow conditions were facing. And I remember that tuning into it. You know, I and here's the funny thing. It was usually on like I was probably heading out to school, so it wasn't like I was getting to go up and ski. But I wanted to know the snow report every day. Skiers and snowboarders want to know that, right? Right. So tell us a little bit about that time in your life. I, you you just reminded me of a great story. So we are headed to Oregon and I'm I'm working as Bogus Basin Spokeswomen at the time and doing marketing for them. And, my daughter and I are at a rest stop, and we're in the ladies room doing our business, and I'm talking to my daughter over the stall and the person next to me goes, oh my God, is that Gretchen Anderson? Cue the eyeroll of my daughter. Oh, she's getting recognized. For what? She's doing her business. Yeah. There was that. That's awesome. It was a great platform. Everybody loves Bogus Basin. It's a nonprofit resort. It's one of very few in the country. And one one that is is very successful. And, my background in skiing really just paved the way for me in that position. And I was there for 15 years and, got to raise the kids there. I have we have five total. When I married Buster, he had two kids. So it was a package deal, and it was wonderful. And I, you know, I honor, Wit and Zach, my two step kids who have made life a lot easier for me. But Hannah, Woody and Miles came after that, and it's been it's been a wild ride with all five of them, but it's been wonderful to raise them up there. Bogus basin. Fantastic experience. Learned a lot. I think I did a pretty good job for them. And then the old guard pretty much left at a certain point, and I felt this is the time to go, and I did as well. How did that's it. That's transitions are challenging in life. If you if somebody is listening, who is maybe in the middle of transitioning from something that they've done for 15 years and now they're making a scary change, what sort of advice would you give somebody? Oh, I think your your instant, reaction to it is I got to find something that's just like it. And I got to keep going. Right. And my advice would be just chill out. She'll a you know what out weird for like a month or two and just let it wash over you because there is life after it. And, you always bounce back, I think. Yeah. My, my sweet sister, who's been running Pomerelle for 40 years now, really has been the the main driver, is is retiring, and she's facing the same thing. I need to call her and tell her to do that. You can use the actual words. Yeah, I it's transitions can be very challenging. Yeah a little bit scary. Yeah I've had those transitions and I think, I think when you replace a transition with something new and unknown, you're, you're, you have to become a little vulnerable. I remember geez was I, I think maybe it was after I left bogus that I became a, a master gardener. It was right after I put out the chicken book. And the chicken book did well and continues to do well. So I, I think I became a master gardener in the. And I was so worried, Kelly, that they were going to have science, you know, as, as part of it, you know, I got a biology degree and I was worried about the same thing because I was going back to, to take this course, you know, 20 years after college. So I was like, what if I can't do it? What if it. Oh, yeah. I was so intimidated. Yes. Yeah. And so you make yourself a little vulnerable. And the beautiful part about that is you go in being intimidated and vulnerable, and then you come out the other end and you can pat yourself on the back for putting yourself out there and doing it. Yeah. You get there. Yeah. And I think there's something to be said about that continual learning, I think, to stay able to learn, you have to continue to learn. Absolutely. So I think when we stop or we have we have pauses and that that's when we begin to have fear builds up and we start making up stuff in our heads. Right. Just just stay the course and continue to constantly be feeding our brains. And then you don't have those moments of panic. What am I going to do? Exactly what I can do with myself. Exactly. So still talking about bogus. Are there any any fun side like behind the scenes stories that happened while you were there? I, I just having grown up on that mountain as well. And and it's it's just kind of there's so much, I mean, I hear about little stories here and there about things that happen on the mountain. And I just wonder if you being a part of that, is there any anything that sticks out in your mind? Is it something interesting that happened while you were there? A couple things. I think one, and it just has to do with me. I, I, I get, motion sickness coming up in an elevator. It's just that. And so that road to bogus, basically, I always have to drive it. And if I don't drive it slowly, I'll make myself sick, and, you know, and it was. It is what it is, and it was what it was. And so 15 years of of doing that, I was driving up on Easter. I had my daughter with me and, we're headed up and I was going to put on an eat a bunny suit and go around and hand out eggs to everybody. Yeah, there you go. So, I did, but before we got there, we're driving up. I've got the suit in the back. Hand in hand is sitting in the passenger seat. She's old enough to be there, and I'm driving, and I'm trying to get there in a hurry. And, the Land Cruiser does A 180. Actually, a 360. It was a 360. No cars around, just a little too fast. And it does a 360. And I remember harnessing mom make it stop. Oh yeah. Yeah. And got up there. And so that that was one thing that told me that that road is not a road for anybody to be in a hurry. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Right. Yeah. You just don't want to be in a hurry. And the other one was, a great from a, you know, a public relations standpoint. And communication and, public information officer standpoint. We had a we had a, gas leak that went into the water system, and I had to work with the EPA, and, and what it taught me is you are you you are proactive in all the information that you can give the public and the EPA and make sure that, you're, you're doing everything you can to resolve the situation. And, it actually got written up in a, magazine and became kind of an industry standard in terms of of how you handle, a crisis situation and have a plan in your back pocket. Wow. That's incredible. Yeah. Especially since I'm guessing you had never dealt with something like that before. Not to that degree. No, not at that level. But, it was it was a learning experience and and we just we were forthright and I, I remember Mike Shirley at the time said, you have nothing to hide. You tell them everything. And. Yeah. And it was good because I had that license to just be able to talk and, and say exactly what we were doing to mitigate the situation. Isn't it interesting how situations like that, obviously there's a moment of panic and then you start to like you start to put it all together. There is a point when leaders decide they're either going to manage it in it and on the up and up, so to say, or leave some things out and try to. I'm just going to get around it. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. And, and and it's, there's really there's really only one right way to do that. But the other way is just so messy and complicated. And we see it all the time in the news where you think, well, why didn't you just do this every single day? Yeah. Have to lie about the lies. Exactly, exactly. Good. But there is a moment with all of that where as as a leader, it's that it's it's scary and there's the unknown and there's the, you know, you don't know how the public can react. And what was that moment like? Oh, it was a little surreal. But but Bogus Basin is so beloved. I think everybody had our backs. Yeah. And understanding that we were trying to do everything we could, in our power to make things right. Yeah, I it's there. How long ago was that. Gosh. I, it was a while ago I guess my 20 years ago. Okay. Maybe. Yeah. I guess my point is that I feel like there may be less of a willingness to be kind about those kind of things nowadays. I think, I hope that this is not true. I hope I'm just making this up. But it feels like some things happened. And, and, and we're very quick to judge as a public. Absolutely. And I and when you said that it helped that I knew everybody at every single television station and knew everyone in radio and at the newspaper, and we were a known entity. And and that helped. Yeah. Because because they knew what they could get from me. Yeah. Well, and that comes from building relationships. You are a relationship builder. You've spent your whole life doing that. Thank you. One person at a time. And I'm one of them. I feel so grateful for that. But, you know, I think that's a good lesson for anybody who's listening, who is maybe useful in trying to decide, you know, where they could put their energies. Building relationships is never a bad place to put your energy. Not at all. Not at all. It's always a good thing. Absolutely. Yeah. Right. Well, let's talk about how you and I know each other. Let's go into the Master Gardener. We talked a little bit about the fact that we both were a little scared to go back and and take the classes and all that fun stuff, but, but let's talk about that. That journey and and what what it has, what had it done to. How is it? What is it brought into your life? Being a master gardener, I think I well, one thing it's made me realize that I think everybody should go through the Master Gardener. I feel the same way. Program. Yeah. If you have grass out front, you should be the Master Gardener. Yes. If you're walking on the earth. Yes, if you're part of it. Yes, I totally agree. Absolutely. It goes well beyond gardening. Yeah. And you know, a long, long time ago when I was at channel seven, Buster asked me, he said, if you if money weren't an issue and you could do anything you wanted, what would it be? And I said, I, I'd write, I'd garden and I'd raise my kids. Maybe not in that order, but I that's what I would do. And I remember him saying, well, let's get you there. And so that's how the whole switch from channel art from channel seven. And then what I did afterward, happened. I also started having little kids. We had Witness Act, and then I had Hand and Woody and then Miles came a few years later. And I didn't want to pay somebody else to raise my kids. I didn't have kids to do that. And so I wanted to be home. Surely, you know some of those, early morning ski reports. I had to lock myself in the closet to do and hope my kids wouldn't come after me. I love the thought of that. They survived. But, we had it. It was such a great time. So the question was, how did I get to the master writing program? It was. It was Mary who suggested it. We were having dinner one night up at Bogus Basin, actually. And, and then, I, I signed up for it and absolutely loved it. And she said, you check out the the Canyon County program? Because the Ada County program always has a waiting list. Yeah. And so, yeah, I went to the Canyon County program, had a ball, had a blast with that, learned lots of stuff. I, you know, I had those, NSM’s... We called them. No shit moments you. You're kidding. You can't do that. Oh, you're supposed to do that. Oh, what? Yeah. Yeah. whoops exactly, exactly. And they continued with the, you know, the the preservation training. The food preservation training. I had it really. I mean, it was even more so because if you don't do things right, you'll kill somebody. Yes. Right. I remember my mother did that when I was a kid. And yeah, she put the fear of God in us that she was. You know, I'm canning. I need to not have anybody be interrupting me right now. I'm eating like it was a big deal. And then she, you know, as we're eating, you know, probably some canned tomatoes. She's telling us a story about how somebody accidentally killed their whole family, you know, and we're like, oh, wow, mom, that's great. Now let's push the tomatoes away. Right. Exactly. I don't want these now. Yeah, absolutely. Did you are you sure you followed all of the instructions? This is really important that. Yeah, it's, they definitely. Yeah, yeah. Botulism kind of kills the thing. Yeah, it turns out. Yeah, but, loved it, loved the training and and, you know, there are a lot of people who go through the training and don't, don't really continue with their, their training. When you do like you and I have, we become advanced master gardeners and, and that's that is so much fun. And it's a community and I think, I think that's a huge thing these days is we're lacking community. We see fewer people, you know, involved in their church stuff, and we see fewer people involved in, service groups. You know, rotary, the Elks, the Lions Club. And so you have to wonder what, you know, where are people getting their community. And and we do have it with the Master Gardeners, which is really cool. Absolutely. There was an end of season dinner. I don't know, it's been a couple of weeks ago now, and I brought my husband. I had, I guess I had not brought him to anything yet. The mystery husband, the mystery husband. So we brought him, brought him, I brought him along. And we were having, you know, these wonderful conversations. And then as we were walking away, he said, I had no idea that I didn't I didn't realize what who these people were and why it is that you like to do this. He's always it's kind of a head scratcher to him, because that's obviously there's a certain amount of volunteer hours you have to give and that sort of thing to to stay active and, you know, to an education and continued education. Exactly. And so he, you know, a lot of times I think it feels burdensome to him a little because it's like, oh, well, you know, Callie's working on an article that they're posting, so we can't do such and such, but, but but after he met them, he was like, these are the salt of the earth people. These are just they're just normal. And they're, And they love gardening and they're good humans. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It was a it was a I was glad that he got to experience them. And of course, our leader Brad is there's nobody quite like him. You're right. It's really something I always love to expose people to him because he's, he's a very unique and and talk about somebody who's full of life. Yeah, yeah. Frog in a frying pan. And that guy, he just. He's got. And he's got great ideas and he's, he's he's he's hung in there. Yeah. And a big heart with us. Yeah. A big heart. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so let's talk to somebody who is thinking, well, gosh, I this sounds kind of interesting, but, you know, I didn't even go to college. I didn't this, I didn't that. How will I ever what I be able to pass this class would it. Is it too much. Let's talk to him about the brass tacks here. Because the truth of the matter is it's very doable. Absolutely. I was going to say you you and I both had the same trepidation. Yes, going into it, but, you quickly learned that there are so many cool aspects to it, and, and I don't I'm not sure what your specialty is, but when you become a master gardener, you kind of gravitate to what really interests you. I love my master gardener friends who are, you know, the bug people. They love the the the critters in the garden, right? Yeah. What the heck is this thing? And and then those people who really know their trees love that. And, and but I've, you know, I've gravitated to edible gardening, and so what, what did you do, Kelly? You know, I did, I did junior master Gardener. So a teaching list. So I love that I haven't the last couple of years, I've kind of backed away from that just because I. My plate has been a little bit too full. But I think I will return to that because I do. I love seeing kids have moments when it comes to, you know, seeds and and fruits and vegetables that they're like, whoa, I grew this thing. Yeah. I just, I love that it's magical. And it's it's just really fun. You know, it's enjoyable when they learn and understand where their food comes from. Exactly. That's pretty stuff. Yeah. Yeah, it's really fun I, I that's I have you ever gone over to bugs to the Boise Urban Garden school and I know what it is. Absolutely. Yeah. They they do they do it really well there too. That's, that's a cool they've got a great program and their garden is beautiful. So it's, it's kind of fun just to go and meander around and say, oh, this is what a garden should look like. Sure. It's not like the mess I have in mind. Exactly. I was laughing about this last summer was, well, because we had rough was getting ready to go off to college and we just had so many things going on that I just planted two tomato plants and that's it. And, you know it. Remember what time of year it is now? They're still sitting there. I have not taken them down. I haven't done anything with them. And I know that's not very Master Gardener. I know, but it's what happened. Here's the deal. I learned, from my, It was our our post master. One of them, she said that she never takes down her tomatoes until, like, February. She said, because they then they all dry out. You can just clip around the cages, take that outer part off, and then, pull up your cage and grab the other thing and yank it out of the ground. And it's it's less biomass that you have to, you know, put it put wherever you're going to put it. I hope you're composting it. But but that so. So I'm with you, Callie I look at that. Yeah. Yeah. You're doing it right. You're good girl. Don't don't sweat it. It's a miracle. Yeah. Thank you for letting me know that. That's incredibly great. That's great news. You feel better already? I do. I don't feel like such a bad Zamzow. And master Gardener 011. Oh my gosh. Wow. You have chosen to do quite a few things within the Master Gardener community. What is your favorite thing? Really good question. I, I have to say my own personal garden. Yeah I really do. That's my favorite thing. I love the people. I love that we have a vibrant social media arm of our Canyon County Master Gardeners. But most of all, my garden is, is my sanctuary. I only grow what we eat. And guess who I learned that from your grandpa. Really, Ernie? Yeah. I spent the day with him one day, in his garden, and and and he took me into the kitchen and shot in his kitchen and showed me all the stuff that he would put up. And I said, Bernie, do you ever go to, you know, do you ever go to the market? He said, only to get milk and, and meat on occasion. But it was so cool to watch him, I think in his late 90s carry water. You know, these water pills on, on, you know, both sides and, you know, he grew what he ate for the year, and I'm sure he gave quite a bit of it away, but. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm I'm growing what I eat and drink these days. There's, there's I don't mean to monopolize this, but you gotta know. So I was in New York with my kids, and we went down to this great little restaurant called Time and Tonic. Just closed, unfortunately. And Hannah and I, it was just Hannah and I were sitting at the bar. It was happy hour. And I keep watching these green drinks go out. And I finally ask the bartender, I said, what are what are those drinks? And they said, hey, you know, it's our specialty right now. It's we take cucumbers and we juice them and we make, margarita out of them. And I said, oh, oh, oh, bring it on. You know, the the horticulturists in me wanted to know, you know, how good is this? Because we've all had stuff muddled with cucumber or something like that. And I said, can you muddle, jalapeño in there as well? And they said, done. And they served me this drink. And it's been my favorite cocktail ever since. So what did I do? I went home and the next year I grew a ton of cucumbers. And so when they'd come on, I juiced them and freeze them in those big ice cubes. And, And so my husband will will wisdom up and he has his, magic bullet. And I'm, I'm a happy gal. Yeah. That's phenomenal. That's fantastic. Just going back to my grandfather very quickly. You were talking about. Yes, he was in his 90s. I have a picture of him up on a. We took it. We were stopping by to say hi to him, and he was up on the top rung of a ladder up in his apple tree trimming as apple tree at age 96. The guy was remarkable. Yes, he was absolutely remarkable. And yes, he did. He always sent us with food. He always, you know, we always had something. And, you know, you want a rutabaga. And he was like, well, you you knew you needed to remove it. All right, grandpa, send me with the rutabaga. And then we'd be like, why don't we do it, rutabaga? Like, it was just, you know, he was so wonderful about all the things that he sent her way. And he was he was very generous with everybody. But his garden was massive. It was massive. And it was, I think it was on, like a half an acre. Yeah. And, right behind the Zamzow store on Fairview. Exactly. And and and the yard was all garden. Yeah. And I thought, this is what we need instead of, you know, wasting our time with turf. Lots of grass. Why don't we, you know, put in plants that get back to us. And I do know, don't get me wrong. Now the turf people are going go. Oh, what are you talking about? What about that Samuel's lawn? Yeah, exactly. On our cash cow. So, but there is there is a purpose for turf. And I, my husband, when each kid is left for college, he's taken out more and more lawn, and we've just done more garden on our. We're just under half a half acre. But I said we got to keep that turf because it cools the property. It's, you know, it it. Yeah. Yeah. And the dogs need a place. Come on. Yeah. You got I get it, I got it. Yeah. Okay, so this is a little off script, but I'm just I just want to share with the community what you're willing to share about your children, because you have remarkable kids who are doing remarkable, really cool things. Will you share what what's happening in your kids lives right now? Yes, because now I'm just their mom. That's what I am. It's true. It's true. For a long time, it was like I'm Gretchen Anderson's daughter. But not anymore, because they are doing such an amazing thing right now. But first of all, I want to tell you, I listen to that sweet podcast when Rafi surprised you and asked you all those questions and kind of, that was that. It brought tears to my eyes because, you know, your kids are your kids, and you are going through a time right now, Kelly, where you have been her mom. And that's how you've identified for, you know, 18 years and now she's gone. And so you kind of have to you know, chill the f out. Yeah. And and let it, let it wash over you. And then the other thing that that is gone when you have people in theater in your home, is you lose that energy in the house. Oh, yeah. You know, where you you would hear them either practicing monologues or singing, our our sweet neighbors. Noah says the home where, the two kids, it was Woody and Miles would mow the lawn. They put their headphones on and they would belt. They would sing like nobody's business, you know? Yeah, yeah, while they mowed the lawn. And so all our neighbors know. No. Oh, what? He's home or. Oh, there's Miles. Anyhow, thank you for asking. They they are all in theater and Buster and I, the three of them. It's because the two Wit and Zach, went back to be with their mom, and we had one month left in 2005 where we were worried about them having too much screen time, too much Gameboy, too much computer, and too much you know, right in front of the TV. So he said, okay, screen free August and we'll see how it goes. And that's when they discovered theater. We took them up to Starlight Mountain Theater. Yeah, yeah. And they saw Annie the Musical, where there are a bunch of kids on stage. And prior to this, you know, they'd been in choir and they had been in, mad camp at church music, art and drama. And they, they, you know, they it our son was the stumbling shepherd and the pageant one Christmas. And so they'd kind of had, you know, dip their toe in it. But they all looked at that and I think they said, I can do that. I want to go do that. And and they were they were busy in high school with athletics and student council and marching band and and it all it all boiled down to nope, it's theater. It's still theater. So all three of them went and got their theater degrees. So awesome. Yeah. I want to go to your house at Christmas. One has, one has their masters in, in, classical acting from, Lamda in London. Yeah. And, then our son Woody is getting his masters right now in professional acting from the University of Houston. Very cool. But they, you know, they have a couple, they have international, stage work done between the three of them. Shakespeare here in Boise, Idaho shakes and two, Broadway tours under their belts. And so they're the real deal. They had so much they could have easily, not succeeded in some other business. And we said, if this is what you want to do, let's run it up. The flagpole and see what comes up. And I remember saying, well, some of these kids got it, you know, go to Broadway, right? I remember I remember saying that and, and to that point now I have a niece and a nephew who are currently on tour. Oh, wow. One is in a beautiful noise. She's she is understudy for the lead and and she's in chorus and that's the if you don't know it. That's the Neil Diamond story. Yeah. So you all know the music. Yeah. Tap in your toes. Right. Yeah. And the other one is, trombone player in, Book Mormon. Oh yeah. And he got his start because Woody was on tour with South Pacific and they lost their trombone player. And what he said, hey, my cousin, my place right time. He has a masters and trombone performance. How's that for being so granular? You know. And so so they're on tour. But the biggest thing they're doing right now is they're making their own art and they're doing their own storytelling. So they all grew up with a love for D&D, Dungeons and Dragons. And they took that love with some friends and now they it's, tabletop role playing. Some of your listeners probably know about this stuff, and they are now in the top 20 in the country. And it is amazing what they've done. They've it's it's emerging media. They stream their tabletop role games, and they tell stories. It's storytelling and improv at its best, and they act weekly. I kept saying to them, don't you think it's time to, like, go to an audition? And sweet Hanna said, mom, I'm tired of people waiting for people to tell me, yes, I'm going to do this. And so it's called Bards of New York. So bards is in reference to Shakespeare, right? Bards of New York. And, they it's not their day job yet, but they've monetized it. They have sponsors. They've been written up in Business Insider. They received two crit awards, which is, the critical role of Dungeons and Dragons. They just won those awards this past year, and they've partnered with, big organizations back in New York. And so every day they put their microphones in front of them in their headphones on, and they tell stories, and they have a worldwide audience and, and literally, you can watch it. And, everybody is, is commenting on the right side on it's on Twitch and it's on YouTube. Bards of New York. And it's their community. It's a community. And that's what the Business Insider story was about, was how these millennials and, and Gen Z or, you know, all of those together, how they find community and they have found it in this and it is so it is so cool to watch them. Woody has to take three years off. He's pops in and out every once in a while. But because of his masters work, he's not doing it right now. And then the former Dungeon Master, is on tour with 20 Sided Tavern, which is a musical about D&D. And, he plays one of the rules on that. So yeah, there and they go, they come in and out of it. But there are the originals. And then and then they've built it out a little bit and very inclusive and very supportive. And it's it is a great community. I'll pop in every once in a while. They, they, stream live on Wednesdays and I'll pop in every once in a while and say, hey, greetings from Idaho. You know, I'm wishing you all a great story, you know, great show. And it is, it's oh, there's, you know, there's the miniatures, mom. And, Yeah, it's it's the mom. Well, I got to tell you, I, before I, I had discussed with you that my daughter was planning on going to New York. I was kind of in my own little world. I was like nobody else. And none of Rafa's friends were thinking of going to New York. Nobody was thinking about doing theater. Nobody was. And so I didn't have anybody. And I remember that we were I think it was a bad year. A little over a year ago, we were at a dinner and I made just kind of made a side comment about some looks like my daughter might be going to New York to do theater. And you lit up and you said it's the best thing. And you you were the first person who I knew who had kids, who had gone and done this successfully and were living these wonderful, happy lives. And you looked perfectly happy as well. And I was like, okay, I think there might be life after this if she decides to do this. And and it's turned out to it's served me well knowing you and watching how you and your kids have have managed this change of of them being so far away, but doing these really cool, exciting things and what their hearts love. Yeah, letting your kids do what they want to do. It yeah, it really did help me as as a friend. You helped me be kind of show me the way to know that this was going to be okay. Yeah. That's wonderful. You know what it does is that, you know, now they're all on the East Coast. But for Woody, because he's in Houston. But he'll go back to New York. And so we've got them in Florida and New York. And what it does is it just makes your world that much bigger. And if you have the wherewithal to visit, that's even better. You know, that's it's it's pretty crazy. I remember when he first said, I want to go to New York to go to school. And I went. So far away, it it was, you know, the farthest Hannah had gone in and and Zach and Whit did Florida State and, school in Laurinburg, North Carolina. Saint Andrews, that was far, but but, both Miles and Hannah did and your listeners will understand a day's drive away from us, which I knew as mom. I can get to them in a day. Yeah. And with Woody, I could fly to him within a day. You really? You get there? It opens up your world. Yeah. You just get a bigger world. And then. So when Hannah announced that she wanted to go to London for school. So I guess that's more than a day's flight. Yeah. She said yes. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Get after these kids. Yeah. These kids that I, I honor you, I honor you for your going through what I did, where you, you know, you are somebody's mom. You know, in the immediate, you know, here and now. Yeah. That changes. And then the energy changes. And I'm sure a lot of listeners can understand that when your kids move out and you become true empty nesters and the kids aren't, like, bouncing back to you. Yeah. It it is an adjustment. Yeah, but be patient. You'll find your groove. Ha. Thank you. Thank you for that. I what I've realized and I said this to you before we started the podcast, but I, I, I didn't realize how much it mattered that she be happy if she's if she's happy, I'm. I'm doing all right, you know? And she's very happy, so. Oh, one more thing. Yeah. One thing I learned when I went to Westminster with Hannah, they they had a, seminar for the parents for first time, you know, college. I had witnessed that, but this was Hannah, the one who looks like me and acts like me sometimes. Like we can get after it. They said the first week or two of school. Only texted them because there's bound to be a great deal of, homesickness. And if you hear them on the phone crying and upset, you're going to say, okay, come home, hurry home. Yeah, but if you get that two weeks under your belt and then you start talking to them, it's a much better thing because they need time to adjust. We all need time to adjust. Absolutely. Yeah. That was the best advice I got. So I'm passing it on. Thank you. Somebody is listening I know that we're if we're helping somebody I'm going to take a quick break and thank our sponsors. This episode of Nobody Knows is brought to you by Zamzows, your local source for garden, pet and planet friendly products. Whether you're raising chickens, tending a backyard garden, or just trying to live a little closer to nature, Sam SOS is here to help. Visit Zamzows.com or stop by any of our 12 Treasure Valley locations. Nobody knows like Zamzows. Okay, it's time to shift gears to the part we call sharing is Caring. These are rapid fire questions. Love that. All right. Are you ready? I am okay. How about a gardening practice or plant that you're loving right now? Aside from the cucumbers, yes. I, I love a plant that gives back every single year. So my fruit is is fantastic. My blackberries are fabulous. Yeah, blackberries. But I think I would have to say I discovered. Is it possible? They are possible. Yeah, a Mexican soup. I discovered a recipe last year on food and wine, the website, and it's their most downloaded recipe. And so I made it once, and it was to die for this soup. And I had never, never cooked with harmony before, so I, I'm that was a first for me. But I thought, okay, I need, poblano peppers for this, this recipe. I need, tomatoes, and onions. Those are the big ones. So I said, those are the ones I'm going to grow this year. I. Yeah. So that was it. Oh that's good. That is one of the things about empty nesting. You get to just make food that you want to make and, and want to eat it all day long. All the kids. That's a great answer. All right. How about a favorite local business, a grower or a market that you'd recommend? Okay. Having gone through the pandemic, operating restaurant at restaurants plural I would say if you have a favorite market or a grower or a restaurant, frequent them in Sam's, those is your favorite frequented because if you don't, you're in jeopardy of losing it. And I remember Buster saying, if we don't do that, we're going to lose some of our favorite restaurants, right? That's true. And, and we did a lot of them, you know, Wepa was one of them. And he in fact, he he referenced that and said, let's go to Wepa. You know, that was one of our favorite little restaurants in, in Garden City. So it's it's, you know, what, if you don't frequent them and, speak with your pocketbook in terms of your support, it's very difficult. Margins are so small, as you know. Yeah. You know, margins, the margins, what it cost to procure the item, especially with tariffs right now. Right. And then what you have to sell it for so that your, your people don't go, oh my gosh this is too expensive I know. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So frequent I would just take that minute to get on my soapbox and say frequent the ones you love I love that answer. Yeah that's great. How about a book or a show that you go back to for joy or inspiration? I think, it's the movie you've never heard of, the best movie you've never heard of? It is called, About Time. Oh, it just gives me chills thinking about it. I've probably seen it 20 times every time I cry, of course, but it is the most wonderful movie, and it's not necessarily by because of the actors. Although the acting is superb, it's the message of the movie and it's called about Time. This is how I found out about it. My husband flying back from, I think, wherever, probably Florida. He said I was going to watch movie, but that I turned this one on. It kind of looked interesting. My husband doesn't talk like that. Mine does. But he says, I'm just kidding. He said at the end of it, I was crying. You've got to see it. Gretchen and so we watched it together and then the whole family. And then, you know, it's kind of it's rippled out, but it's called about time. And. And you'll thank me later. Okay. I've written it down. Okay. Thank you for that. Okay. So this is the last question. And this is the one that we ask all of our, our, guests that aren't here. So are you ready? Yes. What is something that nobody knows? I've tried to think about that. And if it's no one, that it would embarrass me. That's true. Right. So I had to think about what what it is that people could do. Oh, cool. Or. Oh. All right, that's interesting. That maybe just a few people know and, it it I landed on, I'm, an ordained minister. Have been since 2019, and I love conducting marriages, I love it. Oh, I love, love, love it it scratches that itch in terms of being able to write about the couple. Yeah. I go into it knowing that, you know, this isn't about me. It's about them, and it's about the guests there to stand up for this, these two people, right. Or celebrate them. And so it's a it's a challenge in terms of writing. But I have loved every single second I get. I get the willies, you know, all over I get a little nervous before I start it. And and Kelly, that kind of stuff hasn't happened for a long time. So it's it, you know, it it gives me those endorphins and, I, I dig it. I've done big weddings and I've done little weddings, and, I did a little wedding over in, Veterans Memorial Park. There is an old tree that's almost I think it's kind of almost a dead tree that like, if you're going from the park back to the river, you'll see it. It's, you know, depending on which side you're on, it's closer to those, apartments that are along vpm. Okay. Yeah. The Vmp Veterans Memorial Parkway. Yeah. And, the wedding was in there. It kind of looks like. If it wasn't a wedding, it'd be a nice place for a crackdown. But. But I'm telling you, it was beautiful when we did it. And the sun was dappled coming through and and the and, it was. And there was just a simple, sheer piece of fabric that was hung in one of the trees, kind of to make the altar. And it was a very small wedding, and it was gorgeous. Yeah. I hope that that you're amazing at that. I'll bet that the people who who have you do that. I bet that they are. I bet that they're they're so grateful that they found you and decided to have you do that for them, because I just I imagine you taking it very seriously and that your the words that you write at pre, you know, pre the ceremony and all of that, I just imagine you taking a lot of care and being really good at that. I really I, I am and there are some, there are, there are two things you have to do when you marry people and and, and those are the legal things you have to do. I was at a wedding recently, and, one of the things wasn't done, and I went, oh, should I raise your hand? Yeah. Can we just, can we just take care of one little thing? Yeah, that. Yeah. So I I'm still trying to figure out if I should say yes. Technically speaking. Wait until their 20th anniversary, and there we go. And they want to renew their vows, and let's get her. Exactly. We'll get it right. Gretchen, this has been an awesome conversation. It's been wonderful having you here. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for being my friend. Thank you for being a partner in crime on the social media team, for the Master Gardeners and thanks for everything you do for this community. Thank you so much. It's been an honor and my pleasure being here. Thank you. All right. Well, if you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to follow the podcast and leave a review. And if you think about starting a garden, maybe some backyard hens or just getting outside more, I think this is your sign to do it. Next week we'll hear from another incredible voice shaping the Treasure Valley. Until then, thanks for listening.