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Narrator: Welcome to the Nobody Knows podcast with Callie Zamzow. Join us for conversations with local changemakers and hear the stories that don't always get told. It'll be honest, messy, and beautiful. Touching and humorous. Slow down, pour a glass and pull up a chair. This is the Nobody Knows podcast. 

Callie Zamzow: Welcome to Nobody Knows. I'm your host, Callie Zamzow, and this podcast today was actually scheduled for a couple of weeks ago. But, instead, I was surprised with my daughter—if you all have listened to that episode. And so I feel very, very prepared for this conversation. I want to start off by telling a little story. I—when my husband and I—I'm going to say when my husband was courting me, he decided that I—we were actually, I think we were down at Alive After Five, and we, we had been kind of walking around. It was a little too noisy, and we were trying to get to know each other. And he was like, hey, let's take a walk to Whole Foods and we'll get a kombucha. Have you ever had kombucha before? And he said it with such authority, and I had heard of it. I just went with it. I was like, oh yeah, love kombucha. But, then we got to Whole Foods and we get to the section, and he points out the one that he likes. And I was like, well, I—yeah, I'll go with that one. And I pick it up, and I immediately began shaking it because there was stuff at the bottom. And he gently took it out of my hand and he said, I'm not going to tell you how to run your business, but we're going to put this one back, and I'm going to get you another one, and you probably don't want to shake it. And I was like, oh, okay. That totally, obviously revealed the fact that I didn't know what I was doing. And then I was, you know, pretending. That being said, he is an enormous—and has been an enormous—consumer of kombucha. And I very quickly realized that, hey, we can make this stuff. So my first gift to him was a book on how to make kombucha. And my husband was like, I’m not making this. Like, I'm not—that's not—I'm not, you know, I'm not going to do this. Right. And I was like, all right. So it really ended up being my book. It's now my kombucha Bible. And I have—now I've been making kombucha now for a while. I guess we're married almost nine years. So it's been the better part of ten years that I've been doing this. So, I'm an enormous fan of kombucha. I love what it does for my body. I love the flavor of it now. And we can talk a little bit about this as we get going, but I—I'm just an enormous fan. And so now I get to have somebody in the—in—in my studio here who actually knows what she's doing. So I couldn't be more thrilled on a personal level to—to learn about this. So please welcome into the studio, Katie Powell. She's the founder of Boise Booch, which is the first hard kombucha brewery in Idaho. So we'll talk about that. Katie's story is equal parts science, soul, and sheer guts. So I'm excited to hear about all of this. She did some fermentation experiments—we're gonna talk about that—and then she has this brand new taproom that I'm very curious about as well. So welcome to the studio.

Katie Powell: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Callie Zamzow: Oh my gosh, I cannot tell you how—I mean, I loved having my daughter in the studio. That was amazing. But there was a point of like, wait, but I was going to have this conversation, so I—it's probably good I get to—I had to take a little pause and, you know, but that's okay. I'm glad to have you in the studio. I'm glad that we get to have this conversation.

Katie Powell: Glad to finally be here. I loved that story, by the way.

Callie Zamzow: Yeah. That's cute. The one about my husband and I.

Katie Powell: Yeah.

Callie Zamzow: My gosh. And if you—if you're not a kombucha consumer, let me give you the decoder ring on that one. You shake up kombucha—I mean, it's—then when you go to open the, the bottle, it—you know, it's very effervescent, and it can then, like, spew all over you, which, by the way, happened one time. We had a new kombucha that we were trying and we were in the car. My husband was driving and he opened—you know, you're kind of like, crack it, and then you wait a second. And he opened a little more and then maybe, like, shut it. Like there's this whole process to opening it if it's very carbonated that you have to be very careful with. And he exploded it in the car—himself. And, you know, that happens.

Katie Powell: Yeah. I had that happen to me in class one day. So that was fun.

Callie Zamzow: Wow.

Katie Powell: Yeah. Kombucha all over my desk.

Callie Zamzow: All right, well, before we get going too far, will you just kind of tell us a little bit about you, your history—like, what makes you tick and how you kind of got into all of this?

Katie Powell: Oh man. So I've kind of done a lot of things. I guess what I live for now, besides Boise Booch, are—is my family. I have two little boys, five and eight, and they're just the best. I love them so much. And my husband is so supportive. So it's a family business. I'm like, I do everything necessary—but everybody helps a lot. And I have a couple guys that help in the buchery, we call it.

Callie Zamzow: Oh, I like that. Yeah. I—yeah, I have a—I’m going to start calling that—there's a little, like, an area in our kitchen where all my booch stuff and, like, where all fermenting takes place. I'm going to start calling that the buchery.

Katie Powell: Cool. Yeah, I love it.

Callie Zamzow: It's probably like, hey, we need to clean up the butchery, because it's always a mess and there's always something going on over there that probably shouldn't be, but okay. Well—so how did your love of fermentation start?

Katie Powell: It started right out of college. I got my undergrad degree in chemistry. I thought I wanted to be a dentist. That stopped quickly after four years of undergrad and lots of debt already.

Callie Zamzow: Yeah, I feel that.

Katie Powell: So I went to school in California and I was driving back home, and we were driving through Caldwell, the wine country of Idaho back then. And we happened to stop into Ste. Chapelle, and we were talking to the lady in the tasting room, and there was a guy in there too, and I just happened to mention, like, hey, I just got my degree in chemistry. Are you guys hiring? And the winemaker said, yeah, ours quit two weeks ago. Send me your resume. And—and that was in '07. So it was like recession. A lot of my friends couldn't find jobs. But I got a job like the next week. Like a really cool job.

Callie Zamzow: Wow.

Katie Powell: So I was the oenologist at Ste. Chapelle. So I tracked the fermentations. I did all the science of the wine for, like, almost seven years, I think. So that's how I kind of fell in love with fermentation. I got to use my degree. I got to play with wine, and—

Callie Zamzow: That's awesome.

Katie Powell: Yeah. It was so fun.

Callie Zamzow: So—so talk to us a little bit, for the person who's listening who's like, I don't—fermentation? I don't know. Like, that sounds like rotting stuff.

​​Katie Powell: Right.

Callie Zamzow: Describe for us, you know, in kind of layman's terms, like, what is—what is fermentation in the short—like, what is it basically?

Katie Powell: Kind of the high-level explanation is turning sugars into alcohol.

Callie Zamzow: Okay.

Katie Powell: But it can be fermenting veggies—like, kombucha is not alcohol. I mean, there's a little bit, but in normal—NA kombucha, the sugars are fermented into other things like acids. And that's where you get the probiotics from.

Callie Zamzow: Right.

Katie Powell: The good stuff.

Callie Zamzow: Yeah, absolutely. Well, and think about, like, the kimchi. Like, people aren't thinking about getting drunk on kimchi obviously.

Katie Powell: Right. [Katie and Callie laugh.]

Callie Zamzow: But it's—it's—it's—is it microbe dependent? Like, is it—so, like, when you're—let's say you're making kimchi, are you gonna use the same microbes for kimchi as you are for kombucha?

Katie Powell: It's a little bit different. So kombucha you use, like, the mother, the SCOBY.

Callie Zamzow: Right.

Katie Powell: It stands for a symbiotic culture of bacteria and yeast, as I'm sure you know. So, yeah, that's what we use for kombucha.

Callie Zamzow: Okay. So when did you—so you obviously were doing it for your job, and you were doing it with wine. So when did you make the adjustment—or, and I was going to say just to kombucha. But I'm wondering if you're, in general, are you—are you—are you—are you just a fermenter in general, or are you really kind of focused on—on kombucha?

Katie Powell: Mainly kombucha. When I was at the winery, it was like a couple of years since I'd been there, I started hearing about kombucha, because it was still pretty new back in, like, 2010, right? Maybe. So my aunt in Utah—she's like this hippie aunt. Hey, Aunt Jean—she is awesome. But she had been making kombucha at home. So one of the times we went down there, she sent me home with my own SCOBY. And that was my first one. So then I started making kombucha at home. I did it for years, and then I kind of took a break, gave one of the daughters to my mom—she made kombucha—and then when I was ready to pick it back up again after a year or so, I got it back from her. So it's like this whole lineage of SCOBY’s through the women in my family.

Callie Zamzow: SCOBY sharing. Let's talk about SCOBY for a second, 'cause again, I'm imagining our listener who isn't—isn't entirely sure about this whole process. So SCOBYs are, to me, fascinating. Just like the—how they feel and what they look like and how they grow and, like, it's—it reminds me a lot of—sounds—it's going to sound really bizarre, but it reminds me a lot of skin. The way that it looks and feels and—but I can spend hours with a SCOBY—

Katie Powell: Oh my gosh, playing with it. They're so cool. They gross so many people out, because I have a jar of them at the buchery.

Callie Zamzow: Yeah.

Katie Powell: And they're like what is that? I’m like, well, that's where the magic happens. That's what you're drinking.

Callie Zamzow: It's so true. It's very strange stuff. I also have—because I don't want to throw them away. And I keep, like, hoping, like, every now and then, that people in my life will be like, I want to learn how. And I'll be like, I've got SCOBY for you. But nobody—not one person—has asked for a SCOBY. People think it's weird. It's not weird. Validate the fact that it's not weird.

Katie Powell: It’s not weird.

Callie Zamzow: Okay, so—there are enormous health benefits to kombucha. So can you talk a little bit about that?

Katie Powell: Yeah. So aside from the probiotics—like, really, really good for your gut, which we all know by now, gut health is so important—the base is tea. It's usually black tea. Some people use a blend of black and green tea. So you're getting all the benefits from the tea also, which—high in antioxidants. Good for your skin. It just goes on and on.

Callie Zamzow: Yeah.

Katie Powell: I think it's a really fun drink to drink when you don't want alcohol, or now when you do want alcohol and you still want to be healthy—ish.

Callie Zamzow: Yes, absolutely. 

Callie Zamzow: I agree. So, surrounding kombucha, there's this—the new taproom that you've created. But it seems to be more than that. It seems to be more of, like, a community building—like it's not just, hey, come grab some kombucha. So can you tell us a little bit about the taproom and what your vision was for that?

Katie Powell: Yeah. I have always been interested in bringing people together in, like, a neighborhood, very welcoming environment—making people feel like they're at home or, like, a really good friend's home. They always feel welcome. When I worked at the winery, I used to sneak over to the tasting room whenever I could and help people, you know, pour them drinks for them, taste, and talk about the wine. And that was one of my favorite parts of the job. So being able to put the two together—my love of fermentation and my love of bringing people together and teaching them about this drink that I made and I love and I'm so proud of—is really special. And I—one of the most special things about the taproom is, like, people come in sometimes by themselves, sometimes with their friends. And before you know it, like, you're talking to everybody there if you want. And, like, now we have this group of friends that go out to eat together for, like, international meals. They're going through all the international restaurants in Boise. It's just so fun—

Callie Zamzow: Yeah that’s really cool. I—you know, it kind of sounds to me, not to be cheesy, but it's like the personification of kombucha. Because you bring—you're bringing together these microbes and they come together and they sort of, like—with a little help of mother—they sort of, like—

Katie Powell: I love that.

Callie Zamzow: Yeah. Well, you need our, like—I don't—maybe I need to come visit, but I'm imagining really, really big, like, skin-like squishy cushions that everybody's sitting on. Then, you know, complete the circle, because—[Callie and Katie laugh.]

Katie Powell: SCOBY cushions. Oh how funny.

Callie Zamzow: Exactly. Exactly. What are some of—I know—so I know that you're—do you—like, you're doing events and things like that there, right? Like you're pretty good. So what are some of your favorite things that—that are taking place at the taproom?

Katie Powell: So Friday nights we have trivia, and it's one of our booch tenders’ fiancé who's just like, hey, I'm interested in putting on trivia. Like, it sounds really fun. We have a really good group that comes on Fridays. So she does that just on her own, and it's just so fun. And then we do some other kind of funny events. If you have seen our Instagram, you might have seen the Hobby Horse Derby.

Callie Zamzow: Oh my gosh, I haven't seen that.

Katie Powell: It's actually my mother-in-law's idea. But as soon as I heard it, I was like, we have to do this. So we did it on the Kentucky Derby day. Do you know what hobby horses are?

Callie Zamzow: I—I'm assuming they're like the little, like, rocking horses—

Katie Powell: They're like the stick horses.

Callie Zamzow: Oh. Oh my gosh, I didn't realize that. Now it's changed completely. Oh my gosh. So you are—like, yeah. You're just—you're riding a stick pony.

Katie Powell: Yes. So we set up a whole course. We had the three, like, competitions. We had the show jumping and dressage and the sprint. It was epic. It was so much fun. Just, like, so many laughs, so much good positive energy. Just people having fun. 

Callie Zamzow: Oh my gosh. 

Katie Powell: We got so much hate on it on the internet, which—whatever.

Callie Zamzow: Really?

Katie Powell: People are going to hate. Yeah, from behind their computers. But—

Katie Powell: Right. I'm like, sorry you're not having as much fun as us. But I think it was all fun.

Callie Zamzow: Yeah. I think it’s fabulous. Oh, man. That's wonderful. That—that—yeah, that—I—I'm sorry I missed that one, but I'm assuming that you'll have it again.

Katie Powell: Oh, yeah. We've got many requests to do it again. Yes. We will—we will be having the Hobby Horse Derby again.

Callie Zamzow: Yeah, that is so great. So I know that there—like, a lot of times people, when they hear that I'm drinking kombucha, they'll be like—like in the middle of the day—they're like, it has alcohol. And—and—and so that—so how do you balance that? Because you do have alcoholic versions that you're serving, but you also have the nonalcoholic. So how do you—how do you balance that, like, the alcohol side of things and then, like, the wellness parts of things that—like—yeah. How does—how does that work?

Katie Powell: Well, so I have the nonalcoholic. Legally it has less than a half a percent of alcohol. So it's like as much as orange juice. Okay. Any natural fruit juice that's not—I guess—I guess it's pasteurized and—

Callie Zamzow: Right.

Katie Powell: Or just pasteurized. But I think if you leave it—

Callie Zamzow: I’ve suddenly had turned orange juice—exactly—in my refrigerator.

Katie Powell: So orange juice, like, naturally has some alcohol too. It's not that big a deal.

Callie Zamzow: Right.

Katie Powell: So you drink the nonalcoholic when you don't want alcohol, and the boozy when you want to drink with friends.

Callie Zamzow: Yeah.

Katie Powell: And the good thing is, like, you can come and have, like, a flight if you want and mix it up—have, like, alcoholic and nonalcoholic, a pint. You can mix half and half. Like, my favorite combo right now is our NA coconut lime and our hard pineapple margarita. It's like a little piña colada. It's so good—and less ABV.

Callie Zamzow: Okay.

Katie Powell: Because most of mine are seven. I have a couple that are tens.

Callie Zamzow: Okay.

Katie Powell: But, yeah, the possibilities are endless.

Callie Zamzow: What are some of the flavors? Because those sound amazing—you just—the two that you just mentioned.

Katie Powell: Oh, yeah. I—I change them a lot. I have my, like, basic ones that are always going to be around. So for hard—lemon honey mint will always be around. Bourbon barrel peach—one of our ten percenters. Blackberry julep—so this is another one we made last year for the Derby weekend for the Boise Farmers Market, and it was so popular that everybody got mad at us when we didn't have it. And so it's been on the menu ever since.

Callie Zamzow: That's a great sign.

Katie Powell: Yeah.

Callie Zamzow: When you're—yeah, when your customers are like, okay—

Katie Powell: Yeah, yeah.

Callie Zamzow: Need to do this.

Katie Powell: Yeah. Strawberry lemon. Like I said, pineapple margarita. Raspberry lemonade I have right now. Huckleberry sage.

Callie Zamzow: I mean, these all sound amazing. Do you just dream them up yourself, or do you—

Katie Powell: Most of them, yeah. I have recommendations from people.

Callie Zamzow: Okay.

Katie Powell: And if they say, like, hey, try this—like, oh, that sounds good.

Callie Zamzow: Yeah, yeah.

Katie Powell: But it is—like, I have a list, an ongoing list that's just really fun to play with.

Callie Zamzow: Yeah.

Katie Powell: And I make it, like, each keg at a time. So I have a batch of—just, we call it naked booch—

Callie Zamzow: Right.

Katie Powell: That I just—when it's time to make more, I just add the fruit juice or whatever and go for it—create it from there.

Callie Zamzow: So I do a little of that too. My husband will—like, we went on a vacation one time and there was this wonderful, like, blue spirulina coconut. And I'm like, I can figure this—I can re-engineer this and create it. Now, I—I—what I can't get is the spirulina to stay, like, stay suspended so that it stays blue. Like it—like, I don't know whether they're using additives or something, and if so, I don't want to do it anyway. But I think you—you do kind of get to the bottom and you have a sludge of blue spirulina.

Katie Powell: I made a blue—well, I made a Bronco booch during football season last year, and it was lemon honey mint. But I overdid the mint a little bit. So people were drinking this blue drink, and they're like, it's a little minty. It kind of tastes like toothpaste or like mouthwash. [Callie laughs.]

Katie Powell: Oops. Sorry.

Callie Zamzow: I see you're doing what I would love to be doing with my own booch. Like, I just have—my husband—my daughter won't touch it. She has—I shouldn't say that. She's tried it several times, but it's a little too intense for her. But my husband's like, I just make it for him, and he'll drink anything. So I don't feel like I'm—I'm like, okay—everything that—make sure—whatever—I'll drink it. He's fine with it. So I'm like, but is it good? Does it taste good? And he'll be like, it's fine, it's good, whatever. Like, he's—

Katie Powell:So what's your favorite flavors?

Callie Zamzow: I do like the coconut one with the blue, especially.

Callie Zamzow: No, that is a—that's a—but my very favorite—and there are several varieties in the Valley. I haven't actually made it yet myself—is anything that's like mojito, because I do like that mint.

Katie Powell: Yeah.

Callie Zamzow: But I kind of like the lime part of it. But the balancing of that is—I've not been that successful on in my own kitchen doing that. But there are a few that I—I downright crave. Like, I—that's my very favorite one. But I'm—I'm to the point now where I even like the really intense—like, sometimes there's really medicinal ones, or certain brands that you're like, if people are like, I'm going to try kombucha, I'm like, well, don't start here, because you're not going to like it. I guarantee it. But once you've kind of built your palate up and you—and I—my body craves it. Like, I just—I'm like, I need to have a kombucha. And so sometimes I—I'll reach for the more medicinal ones and I will—you know, and I even enjoy it now, dare I say. I'm like, I even enjoy the medicinal taste of some of them. And—and when I say medicinal, I don't mean, like, you know, drug medicinal. I mean it literally tastes—there are herbs that taste a little bit stronger and, you know—but I feel like they're doing something.

Katie Powell: They are.

Callie Zamzow: Yeah.

Katie Powell: And you get that little kick of B vitamins.

Callie Zamzow: Exactly.

Katie Powell: Yeah, exactly. All of it. It's really great.

Callie Zamzow: So, you know, the whole—I'm fascinated with the whole fermentation process and patience that's required. And there is a little instinct—like, there is a little part of—like, you—once you've made enough of it, you kind of know when it's turning and when you're like, okay, this is a good time to pull it. So you sort of figure those things out. In the beginning, I think there's a lot of instinct that you have to kind of, you know, apply and be like, okay—

Callie Zamzow: I think we're there, and we're going to go with this, and I'm going to offset it with this or whatever. So there's—there's a little bit of—I mean, a lot of chemistry, obviously. I love it that you're a chemist. It's awesome. Or that you are a chemist. But how is that approach—how has that—the fact that you have had this very patient tendency to be able to do these things with the kombucha—how does that affect you as a businesswoman? Has that—yeah. 

Katie Powell: Oh interesting.

Callie Zamzow: Has that shaped how you—like, do you take on business the same way that you take on kombucha?

Katie Powell: Yeah, a little bit.

Callie Zamzow: Okay.

Katie Powell: Yeah. And I don't know if it's a detriment or not, but I'm—I've always been, like, a little bit of a passive person. So that's kind of how I knew that I was going for it. It was like, I didn't give up when I first had this idea. Like, no, this is what I want to do. I'm going to do it. And it was, like, kind of the first time in my life where I really went for it and, like, put in the hard work, cried a lot, picked myself back up, and kept going. And I'm like, okay, something is telling me—like, I just got, like, you know, nudges from the universe—little signs like, no, you gotta keep going, keep going. So that taught me a lot of patience too.

Callie Zamzow: Yeah.

Katie Powell: With the kombucha.

Callie Zamzow: Yeah.

Callie Zamzow: How is being a female business owner in this community?

Katie Powell: Oh. It's great. I—I'm so empowered by so many other women business owners, and I've met so many incredible ones that it's—oh man, it's so fun. You just, like, have this bond with the other women. It's—yeah, it's pretty cool.

Callie Zamzow: I found the same thing. It's amazing to me. There's the support there. I think people are—like, we lean into one another. Like, oh, you're doing this, I'm doing this. There's no competition. It's just a support system that I have found to be—and I don't know if that's unique to Boise. Maybe that's how society is doing now across the world, but I suspect there might be something special here in the Boise Valley that—that, particularly as women leaders, we are willing to talk to one another. There's something there that's happening that I think is pretty unique, and—

Katie Powell: I think so too.

Callie Zamzow: Extraordinary.

Katie Powell: Yeah.

Callie Zamzow: Well, I love hearing that.

Katie Powell: Yeah. And there's so many women that are, like, so eager to help. It's like—I'm not good at asking for help, but these women are just like, you need anything, you let me know. Like, let's talk about struggles and triumphs and everything.

Callie Zamzow: It's so great. Yeah, I think—I think that that is definitely a shift that has happened more recently.

Katie Powell: Yeah.

Callie Zamzow: That women have been willing to, you know, to—to support one another. And I think also there's—there's this, like, celebration of women in particular leading and—and running businesses, but that is a little bit newer, you know. So I—and I'm glad that we're a part of it. I'm glad that we get to be a part of it. And—and I think so much—thank the women before us who did not have that and who struggled and who—and in some ways, you know, I've—I've said this before, because I was—I was taught leadership by men. It was all men, and all the—all—everybody who led Zamzows before me had all been men. And so I—that's where I learned. And for the first—first little bit as a leader, I was hell on wheels because I was trying to be aggressive and what I thought I needed to be. I needed to be more like a man in order to survive it. And I laugh about it now. In fact, Mel is—Mel would be the first person—we have a—we have a mutual friend, and she used to work under me when I was the prior me. And she'll still tease me to this day and call me “boss-hole” [Callie and Katie laugh.] Which is now just like a term of endearment, because I know that that was a phase I was in, and I can—I can laugh about it now, especially because I've embraced this other side and realized, oh, I'm a much better leader when I'm not trying to wrestle everything.

Katie Powell: Yeah. When you're being authentic to yourself.

Callie Zamzow: That's—exactly. Exactly.

Callie Zamzow: Boy, I love these conversations with—with other women. It's just—it's my favorite.

Katie Powell: Yeah. In fact, I have a sign in—so my bathroom is kind of, like, dedicated to strong women. So I—like, pictures in the bathroom of women doing, like, cool stuff. And then a sign on it that says, like, “Behind every great woman is another great woman.”

Callie Zamzow: That's awesome.

Katie Powell: Yeah. I was like, that—that's true. There's so many women that came before us that we owe so much to.

Callie Zamzow: Agreed. Yes, exactly. So how do you know when you—because you're kind of a mad scientist, right? [Katie laughs.]

Katie Powell: Yeah.

Callie Zamzow: So how do you know when you've got a flavor that's ready to go public? Like, do you just—do you just roll it out and see what people think and just—

Katie Powell: Yeah. Yeah, basically if I'm happy with it, then I will serve it.

Callie Zamzow: Has there ever been one that wasn't really—where you're like, this is the greatest thing ever, and people are like, not so much? Has that ever happened?

Katie Powell: Umm, not yet.

Callie Zamzow: Okay.

Katie Powell: Knock on wood.

Callie Zamzow: You've got a good palate.

Katie Powell: I think so. I mean, there will always be the outliers of people that don't like it, but—

Callie Zamzow: Well, yeah. 

Katie Powell: That's fine. You're not going to please everybody. 

Callie Zamzow: And if there are any new kombucha people out there that are like, okay, I'm going to go get some—there really are various, varying degrees. So if you try the first one and you don't like it, don't. Just trust that maybe you went with something a little too strong, or maybe it wasn't quite in the category that's going to be your taste. It's like anything—you might taste—if you just tasted one wine and you didn't like that one, you say, I don't like any wines. No. Obviously you taste them. And that's very much so how it is with kombucha.

Katie Powell: Yeah, for sure. And I kind of have worked my business model—like, we're like the starter kombucha, or gateway kombucha, if you will. We make it a little bit more fruit forward, a little less bitey. So, yeah—try some Boise Booch.

Callie Zamzow: Yeah. And—well, they can—it's literally a tasting room, so they can come in and—and try little bits and taste this one and that one and kind of decide—

Katie Powell: Yeah.

Callie Zamzow: Where they can land. And the driving force, I think, in the very beginning is the health benefits. So it is worth it to—to incorporate it into your lifestyle, because it—it's good for your gut.

Katie Powell: Yeah.

Callie Zamzow: Which is good for everything.

Katie Powell: Right.

Callie Zamzow: Yeah. Okay. So, are there any flavors that you would like to try to incorporate into your line that you haven't yet? Like, have you done any, like, thoughts on future experimentation? Or are there things that you're—or, like, different techniques? There are different types of kombucha—have you thought about going a little different direction, or—

Katie Powell: Not at this time. I definitely want to down the road. But as for—like, you were talking about the medicinal flavors—I went to my friend's house. She has an amazing garden, and she served us—let's see—holy basil and lemon balm tea. Just, like, iced tea. It was, like, very light, and it was the most refreshing thing I think I've ever had. So I think it'd be so fun to play with, like, that combo.

Callie Zamzow: I would drink that.

Katie Powell: And I did. And so that inspired me to do a—I’ve always loved pineapple basil together. So I did a pineapple and holy basil one, and then—in—and then the hard blood orange and holy basil. But then, unfortunately, I used up my holy basil stock.

Katie Powell: So then I had to switch back to regular basil, and it was not quite as good.

Callie Zamzow: Yeah.

Katie Powell: Just like—oh, that holy basil is so good.

Callie Zamzow: It is good. I agree. Yeah. That's—yeah—good stuff. What—what has surprised you about the ways that people in Boise have shown up to support local businesses here?

Katie Powell: Oh, I have been so impressed and humbled. A lot of our customers are just regulars. Like, they're the people coming in every week, sometimes multiple times a week, and they're—they're like our friends now. And it's so cool. I'm like, I'm the place you're choosing to hang out—well, not me the person—but, like, my place. Like, I built this. And it just makes me even more proud. And especially, like, everybody who comes in is such a cool person. They're so kind and so giving and so nice, and I just feel like that's the kind of person that we're attracting.

Callie Zamzow: Yeah.

Katie Powell: And that's—like, I grew up here, and that's the Boise I remember. Like—

Callie Zamzow: I agree.

Katie Powell: There's a few people that aren't like that. But for the majority, like, Boise is a kind place. And I love the people here. And so I love getting to meet more people and spend more time with them.

Callie Zamzow: Well, you know, kombucha—it changes you at a gut level because of those microbes. Maybe what happens is you're just creating these wonderful people in the community.

Katie Powell: Yeah. I love that theory. That's what we're doing—

Callie Zamzow: One person at a time. I recently experimented with jun kombucha. J-U-N

Katie Powell: Jun. Yes.

Callie Zamzow: Okay. And part of my problem was that I got—I got—I got—I lost track of time, and I didn't quite catch it, like, when it was done. And so it still sits—it's still sitting on my—so now I'm gonna have to start over with it, basically. But that is with honey.

Katie Powell: Yeah.

Callie Zamzow: So it's totally different. It tastes a little bit different. And then it kind of processes differently. But again, I sort of jumped in and I was like, I'm gonna do this. And I did it, like, right in the middle of having—it was the springtime. So I had way too many things going on. And you can't be haphazard. You gotta be paying attention. 

Katie Powell: Yeah.

Callie Zamzow: And, yeah, I wasn't paying attention. So—but have you experimented with any other types like that? Have you ever tried to go astray?

Katie Powell: I haven't. You know, one time in my kitchen before I opened Boise Booch, I tried hibiscus tea for the first ferment. And it was so beautiful. And so that's—that's probably next on my list when I want to experiment—like, make a small batch of something.

Callie Zamzow: Yeah.

Katie Powell: So stay tuned.

Callie Zamzow: And you literally mean beautiful because it's a wonderful color, right? I mean it's beautiful.

Katie Powell: Yeah.

Callie Zamzow: But I bet it's delicious.

Katie Powell: Oh, I bet so too.

Callie Zamzow: Yeah. Okay. Can we totally switch gears?

Katie Powell: Oh—

Callie Zamzow: I know that in a prior life you were a doula.

Katie Powell: Uh-huh.

Callie Zamzow: And I gave birth naturally. And I'm curious about just a little bit about that life. I don't want to steer away from what you're doing currently, but I'm just curious about, like, how—what was that like? What was it like being a doula? Because that is a tremendous—in my estimation—a very difficult job because you're—I mean, you're on call, like, 24/7 for your clients. So when they're—whenever their baby decides that—when they're ready, it's time. And then—so if it's 2:00 in the morning, you're getting a call and you're going. And—and so can you kind of explain what a doula is and sort of what you did?

Katie Powell: Yeah. So a doula is like a childbirth coach, I want to say. And it was magical. Like, I started becoming a doula—or I became a doula—after my first son was born. Because my good friend was our doula, and I hired her mostly for my husband. Because you never know how the—you never know how you're going to react either, especially for your first one. But she was such good help. She helped both of us through. It was not a terrible labor. It was like 12 hours. But she was there for me. She did all the prep work, like getting us ready, prepared, talking about my birth wishes, preferences, what to expect—kind of.

Callie Zamzow: Yeah, kind of is right. They can only tell you so much.

Katie Powell: Yeah, right. You never know. But birth is such, like, a transformational experience. And becoming a mother is just so special. So to be a part of that—it was just—and then having, like, the pregnant person choose me to be at their birth is just so special. And then seeing babies born—yeah, it was amazing. But it was very hard because I did have a little baby toddler the whole time. And he still, like, nursed a lot. So sometimes I had to, like, excuse myself to go pump during the birth. Because you could—you could be at the birth for two hours. You could be there for 36 hours. So it was really hard. And then I stopped when I was very pregnant with my second. And then COVID hit. So at the first part of COVID we weren't allowed in the hospitals. So, I was kind of forced out. It'll always hold a very special place in my heart.

Callie Zamzow: Yeah. Yeah. Extraordinary work.

Katie Powell: Yeah.

Callie Zamzow: Amazing. Well, speaking of amazing things, I—it's time for me to kind of mention our sponsors, who are extraordinary. We really appreciate them. So this episode is brought to you by Zamzows, your go-to for all things garden, pet, and planet. From compost to kombucha-friendly herbs, we've got you covered. To learn more about how Zam Zos can help grow your vision, please visit Zappos.com or a convenient Treasure Valley location—any of the 12 that we have. 

Callie Zamzow: I have a few little rapid-fire questions for you. Are you ready for this?

Katie Powell: Okay. Yeah.

Callie Zamzow: Okay. All right, so first question: what is the song that is fueling your creative energy right now?

Katie Powell: Oh, I listen to audiobooks more—plug in and listen to books.

Callie Zamzow: I love that.

Katie Powell: Yeah.

Callie Zamzow: I—so it's so funny because my husband and I, we always say “read,” and then we put, like, air quotes.

Katie Powell: Yeah.

Callie Zamzow: Because we're like—like, we're cheating. I'm “reading” this book right now. But I—there's a very different experience when you're listening to a book versus when you're reading it, and you can get other things done at the same time. And I love the—the chance to learn something while you're also doing something else. That's great. So what's your—what's on audiobook right now? What do you—

Katie Powell: I—I love—I—I switch between, like, personal development books or personal growth and just, like, you know, Hallmark—but, like, Katherine Center. Colleen Hoover is always good.

Callie Zamzow: No—well, that's lovely. So you're a little bit like me. I feel like—I don't know—maybe it's how we were raised, but I feel like I'm allowed to have a certain amount of enjoyment, and then I also have to learn. Yes. You gotta balance it. Callie, this is—this is how it works. Okay. Well, how about a—how about a favorite booch flavor that you've brewed? Or maybe one that you flopped?

Katie Powell: Oh—

Callie Zamzow: Either/or—

Katie Powell: Probably the toothpaste one.

Callie Zamzow: Yeah.

Katie Powell: It was great in theory, but some things—

Callie Zamzow: That cracks me up.

Katie Powell: It's just a little minty.

Callie Zamzow: Oh, and I love the honesty of—of your tasters. That they're like—they'll taste and be like, toothpaste. Like, that's awesome.

Katie Powell: Well, my feedback—yes. Also, at the beginning, I learned about this thing called diacetyl. Which—if you're a brewer or know anything about yeast, you know a lot about this, actually, because I didn't know about it.

Callie Zamzow: Okay.

Katie Powell: But it's a byproduct of fermentation. So the yeast produce diacetyl late in the fermentation, and then they eat it back up if you give it time.

Callie Zamzow: Interesting.

Katie Powell: So I think I figured it out by now. But the end result—it would create, like, this not-ideal aftertaste, in my opinion—like buttered popcorn.

Callie Zamzow: Oh, I know that taste.

Katie Powell: Oh, I do know what that tastes—

Callie Zamzow: Okay.

Katie Powell: Yeah. Some people call it, like, “mousy.” They get mousy. Luckily, I never had it taste, like, mousy, but—

Callie Zamzow: That sounds very unpleasant.

Katie Powell: Buttered popcorn is a little better, I think. So we had one batch of our pineapple margarita—not just one, actually—but we would—

Katie Powell: It got so bad. And it gets worse over time.

Katie Powell: And there's only a percentage of the population that can taste it, so not everybody.

Callie Zamzow: Interesting.

Katie Powell: So it would be, like, a fun experiment. Like, hey, what do you think of this? And they'd be like, oh, that's really good. And then some would be like, oh, that's really good—oh—oh, what's that? 

Callie Zamzow: What's going on here?

Katie Powell: So then we would serve it with Tajín popcorn to be like—it was kind of like this fun pairing. And, like, most people loved it. Like, they didn't even mind the aftertaste, because it's not harmful at all. It's just, like, naturally occurring. That’s kind of a flop but—                                                

Callie Zamzow: You’re so creative.                                  

Callie Zamzow: I love it. That's fantastic. Okay, one more. How about a quote or a mantra that keeps you going?

Katie Powell: I want to put this on—okay, so if you've been to the buchery —we are, like, bordering the big gas tanks, you know—like the big, ugly, white tanks full of gas. 

Callie Zamzow: Sure.

Katie Powell: I grew up around there, and we have a chain-link fence between us and, like, a big parking lot, sort of.

Katie Powell: So I want to make a pretty big picture—

Callie Zamzow: A mural.

Katie Powell: A mural. Right. Thank you.

Callie Zamzow: I'm with you.

Katie Powell: And on that, I want to put, “Scatter joy and see what blooms.” I just love that. It's like, you can change people's lives—you don't have to go big—one person at a time. Just, like, be happy, be nice, be kind.

Katie Powell: And then you never know what waterfall effect that'll have.

Callie Zamzow: That’s true.

Katie Powell: So, scatter joy and see what blooms.

Callie Zamzow: Speaking of making things bloom, the Zamzows tip of the week is about roses. And it comes to you from a question that I got from my friend Kit not too long ago, and she was asking me about her rose—her one—she has a rose bush that she has had now for about six years, and she said it just isn't doing well this year. And we started down kind of the—the general questions about watering and—and sort of—and at the end, what we ultimately landed on was the fact that she had not fed her roses. And I realized as I was walking around my neighborhood this week that people have not been feeding their roses. So, remember that roses are very heavy feeders. They want to have food. We recommend doing a natural food that is going to break down and make the soil healthier. So we're not big fans of doing chemical foods in the form of fertilizers. We like to—to—to feed roses. So ideally that's the way that you would do it, but you can just feed them in some sort of a form. But your roses are—they're asking you. I'm telling you on their behalf that they're hungry. So make sure to feed your roses. Do all the things you're supposed to do. Make sure that you're—you're deadheading them, taking off the old roses, so that they can use that energy for other things. But I think if you do that now, you'll find that your roses this fall will look beautiful. Okay, this is the time in the show where we ask—we ask the same question of all of our guests, and it goes along with the—the Zam Zos jingle of “Nobody knows like Zam Zos.” But this is just straight up a nobody knows question. So I'm wondering, in your life, in your world, something that you could tell us that nobody knows. 

Katie Powell: Some people know. Is that okay?

Callie Zamzow: Yes.

Katie Powell: I—like, of course. Okay. So, my original initials are K.E.G.—KEG.

Callie Zamzow: Oh, that's—

Katie Powell: So my nickname was “Keg” in high school, and now—

Callie Zamzow: That's incredible.

Katie Powell: —I work with kegs. It's kind of a fun—

Callie Zamzow: That actually kind of gives me goose—[laughs] I think that that's awesome. Yeah. Isn't it amazing how that turns—like, have you ever noticed, like, that sometimes people—I don't know—like, you'll meet a—well, I think this is a perfect example. Our accountant's last name is Million. I'm like, what a brilliant—Randy Million is his name. And I'm like, I don't ever want another accountant in my life. Like, he's the perfect accountant. Like every—it's wishful thinking, but still, it's like, that's what you need, right?

Callie Zamzow: You want to collaborate? I want you to help me brew.

Katie Powell: Oh my gosh, I would so—

Callie Zamzow: However—

Katie Powell: —want to do that.

Callie Zamzow: I would love to. Like, love to. Yes, I'm all in. I'm all in for that.

Katie Powell: Start thinking.

Callie Zamzow: Okay, I will. Wow, I feel so honored. I feel like a cool kid all of a sudden.

Callie Zamzow: Thank you. Thank you for being here today. This has been a lovely conversation. I'm so excited about what you're doing. And I hope that people will come to your tasting room and—and check it out. And—

Katie Powell: Yeah.

Callie Zamzow: So thank you again for—

Katie Powell: Thank you so much for having me.

Callie Zamzow: Absolutely. So, we've got more inspiring stories coming your way from leaders and makers and voices that you might know and you may not know, but you should. So join us next time, and we'll chat soon.

[Music fades out.]