[Music plays.]

Narrator: Welcome to the Nobody Knows podcast with Callie Zamzow. Join us for conversations with local changemakers and hear the stories that don’t always get told. It’ll be honest, messy, and beautiful. Touching and humorous. Slow down for a glass and pull up a chair. This is the Nobody Knows podcast.

Callie Zamzow: Welcome to Nobody Knows. Today I have an interesting guest in the studio, and, I have… I've been really thinking about the questions that I want to ask, and I am excited about it. And, I wanted to tell a little, little, just a little history in case people aren't exactly sure where I stand with, you know, being environmental or, you know, having, you know, be at the forefront of my mind as to how we're treating the earth and that sort of thing. And I think I very rarely tell people this because it was so long ago. But, when I was a senior in high school, I was the president of the, of the Environmental Awareness Club. [Lea: Yay.] And I… it was really new back then for people who I kind of… I think I've made it pretty clear that I'm, I'm of a certain age. And so this was a while ago. So for young people who are listening, this was a time when there weren't environmental awareness clubs. Like, this was a very, very new club. And really, all we did was try to encourage kids to recycle their paper. Like, so it's pretty much all we did. And I think about… and it was a huge deal. I'm really passionate about it, and I would get so furious that, I mean, it's not that hard. There are boxes right next to the garbage can, and all you have to do is throw your paper in that instead of the garbage can, and kids wouldn't do it. And I would just be very, passionate about the whole thing. But it seemed… now I look back on it and I'm like, man, that was… that was one era and certainly a beginning. And we have to have beginnings. But that we've come a long way. [Lea: Yeah.] And so I'm, I'm really, really excited to have Lea Rainey here in the studio with us to talk to us. Let's get a little deeper with all of this, [Lea Rainey: Yeah.] because talk about somebody who's impassioned and who's made it a life mission. So we've got so much to talk about. She's the co-owner of Roots Zero Waste Market. And it's a business that is built around sustainability and creativity and truly care for the planet. They, you know, from bulk bins and local goods to reuse systems and storytelling. It's… it's not just a store. [Lea: Right.]Like, it's really mission driven and it's mission in motion. So welcome to the studio. I, I, I cannot wait to get into the middle of this conversation because I'm so excited to learn about your passion here. But before we even get started, could you just tell us in your own words a little bit about yourself?

Lea Rainey: Sure. Thanks for having me. And, by the way, I remember those environmental clubs as well, and how it was such a craze to try and get the paper waste at schools to be eliminated. And so I fully have experienced what you were trying to do then. [Callie laughs.] And it's so funny how we were all just so focused on paper. [Callie Zamzow: Right]. Extra paper. So, yeah, I grew up in Idaho. I grew up in McCall. I moved away for a little while. I didn't know if I was going to come back to the tiny little state of Idaho. And then, I did. In 1991, I came back to Boise, actually, and, just was living with some friends and, and deciding what I wanted to do. And I realized after having traveled to other places, you know, I love the rivers. I love the mountains. We have access to all of this. And I've always been very connected. I lived out in the middle of nowhere in McCall, so… and I was an only child. So nature was my friend. And my parents both worked all day, so I, you know, I hung out outside, like, all summer long as a kid by myself. [Callie Zamzow: Mmm.] And go visited farmers and neighbors and environmentalists that were up in McCall. I was just super fortunate to be in this area where you couldn't escape it and you didn't want to.

Callie Zamzow: Yeah. What a cool upbringing. I mean, I think… I think back then things were a little more wild. We were allowed to be wild.

Lea Rainey: Totally.

Callie Zamzow: But yours sounds particularly wild. And as an only child, where you didn't have another sibling either guiding you or you having to guide them, it was like you got to just… the world was your playground.

Lea Rainey: Yeah, yeah.

Callie Zamzow: That's pretty cool.

Lea Rainey: Yeah, it was a comfort to me. Right. Being alone a lot and, you know, having parents that were older and… yeah, the environment is a comfort to me, really became my friend, and I… I paid attention to it. But then, you know, we grow up and we don't. We do these other things. Right. And that's not that important. But somehow it sticks, I think, inside of you. It becomes intrinsic. And you really do understand that we are all nature and that nature has rights. And there are things that, you know, I respected about those rights of nature when I was a child that have never left me.

Callie Zamzow: Well said. This is starting off nicely. You're so well-spoken, I love it.

Lea Rainey: Thanks.

Callie Zamzow: Okay, let's get into Roots. Will you talk to us a little bit about, like, how did it start? What… what was your vision there?

Lea Rainey: Yeah. So, I just… I think in, around, what, 2016… like 2015 to 2016… like, major news coverage was really starting to, you know, build upon… the media was really starting to come together about a singular message about the environment. And the clock started becoming more prevalent. You know, Al Gore was making movies. You know, everybody was out here really trying to educate us. Michael Pollan started talking about waste and food waste and all of these things. And so there was this real resurgence of that, right? I mean, yes, we've always been aware of the environment, and small clubs have come and gone, but really it started to become mainstream. And at the time I actually worked… one of my customers was Procter & Gamble. And I worked with them for about seven years as a consultant. And, in the IT business, not in anything having to do with this.

Callie Zamzow: Okay, I was gonna say—

Lea Rainey: No, no, no, it was just… it was purely IT and communications and global communications. But I was there all the time, you know, and… and just thinking about all the plastic that I was seeing all the time. [Callie Zamzow: Yeah.] So anyway, long story short is that I knew that I wanted to exit the IT industry. I knew that if I was going to be of service, I needed to be of service to a greater good. And to my… the place that I grew up, Idaho, and my community, you know, I wanted to be able to provide an offering. So having no previous background in it, I just looked at the thing that was my biggest issue, my biggest problem in waste. And that was the grocery store shopping. [Callie Zamzow: Mmm..]Like, I, you know, I don't take on a lot of waste otherwise. I'm not like… I don't go out and buy outfits all the time. I'm not, you know, I'm not that kind of a major consumer. I'm pretty pragmatic about what I need. And at over 50 years old, like, you've kind of figured that out by now. Like, you know… you know, you're not trying new things all the time. You're like, I'm kind of, like, in where this baseline is. But, I couldn't get away from it at the grocery store. No matter how much I tried to support bulk, no matter how much I tried to, like, really seek out places, you know, you'd come home with just mountains of plastic. Also, around that time, the orange bag was coming out. And I, I'm just a really practical person. So, you know, I look at the things that are being… the opportunities to recycle or, you know, put our trash in different places, and you can kind of just call bullshit on a lot of stuff. [Callie Zamzow: Mhm.]And then get really down to the heart of, okay, well, I can complain about this. I can be a complainer, [Callie laughs.] which I don't… and I don't ever want to be. Or perhaps, you know, we can start something and figure out how to reduce waste in the food that we eat, the spoils in our refrigerator, which was also very frustrating to me. We can, you know, maybe eliminate the plastic packaging and just put it in something that I can literally throw on my shelf, and I don't have to have a fight with myself about which bin it goes in. [Callie laughs.] And then also, offer it… make it an offering so that it's very simple. It's very everyday. It's something that we all require. If we don't feed ourselves through our gardens, or we don't make our own toilet paper [Callie laughs.] we need these things, right? And they're important. And they will never go away. So, yeah, just making the offering available to everybody else around me was really important. Because then you start thinking about economies of scale. [Callie Zamzow: Right.] And if more people are doing it, like, significantly… right. And we have totally proven that… then you are saving the landfill, the Ada County landfill. You are saving, you know, everything around you… the environment around you.

Callie Zamzow: Okay. So let's just talk for a moment about the fact that, like, not… and just for a moment, we're tabling your dreams here. [Lea Rainey: Yeah.] But putting your… your specific dream aside, you… you start to have this… I mean, not start. Sounds like it's been brewing, and it brews and it brews, and you… at some point you… something happened that made you say, I'm… I'm going to actually do something. I'm going to be brave. I'm going to risk. I'm going to create something. I'm going to make it a tangible thing where my vision comes true. What… what led up to that? And tell us about that point.

Lea Rainey: It's… it's weird because, I had taken two years off in between my career at HP, which was really, really stressful. And I just needed to decompress. And so I had really try… tried to figure it out. I thought I would go the nonprofit route, because again, I want to continue to be of service. Right. So I thought that was going to be the deal. I think just… I mean, I know the moment. I don't know how significant it was or why that would have been the moment. But my husband and I had been invited to go to Mexico with some friends. We'd gone to Cabo and they had a timeshare and they said, hey, we have an extra room, come down and see us. And we did. And I have been… like, Mexico is one of the places that I have always, since I was 19, visited. On my own, with friends. Not usually anywhere that is, like, Cabo. Usually, you know, we're down in the Yucatán, and, back in the, you know, early 2000s and late 1990s. So it was a pretty different place. So I've always had an affinity toward it. And… yeah, I mean, I don't know, maybe it was the excess of the people that I was around, and the excess of, you know, just trash and things like that, that clicked with me. But we were literally on the plane coming home, and I hadn't had a very good time. It just… maybe I was just thinking of too many things that I… okay, I need to start accomplishing something again. But we were on the plane. The Second Inconvenient Truth was on, and I was sobbing, and I was mad at myself, and I was mad at the situation. And so, it turned off. We still had about an hour. And I had kind of been thinking about this for a while, and I'd kicked it around with my friends and my family, kind of going, okay, whatever. We don't know what that is. Zero waste. [Callie laughs.] So, I just said to him, when I get back, I'm going to go… there was a place in Hyde Park which is now Certified, and it was an old upholstery shop. And I said, when I get back, I'm calling the realtor, and I'm going to see if we could put a market in there. And I did, and that wasn't the right space. And so then I continued to look. Yeah. So, I mean, it just… that was it. And then it was like, okay, well, if I have this idea and I'm going to look at a real estate place, then I better go down and figure out a name and get, you know, registered with the Secretary of State in case something does happen. I started doing some pop-ups just to kind of test the water, testing just tons of products to see what really worked. Yeah. So it just kind of snowballed from there. And then, like, within five months, I had found a location and…yeah, started… yeah. Started building the store. We built it from scratch. So… yeah. And, you know, you had said dream. This… this isn't, like, really a dream. This is… there's a problem to solve. And I am a problem solver. And that's what I was trying to do.

Callie Zamzow: Right. And I think, just in listening to what you had to say, I heard you say you were mad. Then you continued forward. Can we stop on that for just a half a second? Because I think sometimes… I don't know, as a female, a lot of times I think that I am told by people that, like, chill out with the anger. [Lea laughs.] And at this age I have, like, no patience for that. [Lea laughs.] [Lea Rainey: Right.] It actually makes me angrier. [Lea Rainey: Yeah.] But I think there's something… and maybe, I don't know that it's a female thing, but I think there… there is… that is something that helps us, [Lea Rainey: Mhm.] helps propel us sometimes in a very unique way that isn't bad. [Lea Rainey: Right.]It's actually very good, 

Lea Rainey: Very motivating. Maybe it's also that we don't, you know, we don't currently—although it's getting better sometimes—we don't currently feel empowered to have that emotion. [Callie Zamzow: Right, right.] But you're right, it does propel us forward. [Callie Zamzow: Right.]And, and again, I think maybe because we deal with those emotions, right? It's like, well, if I'm mad, how do I fix that? Or if I'm frustrated, how am I going to fix that? You know, I don't know that we allow our boys to do that as much as we allow women to work through that feeling and then come to the other side of that. And usually the other side of that is an action.

Callie Zamzow: That's fair. That's fair. I find that my thinking is contrary to popular opinion. I think, like, thinking when I'm angry is pretty spot— I cut out all the B.S. [Lea Rainey: Yeah.] And then it's like laser sharp and… yeah, I… you know, later I might be like, okay, maybe now I've got more capacity because less of it is being pushed towards the anger to actually execute it. But there's something about anger that can get you there sometimes.

Lea Rainey: Yeah. And that’s the easy part. [Callie Zamzow: Right.] Because then you're like, oh, I'm clear. Now, what do I do? How do I even begin? 

Callie Zamzow: And so how did you… like, I mean, I realize… I mean, you… you… you just kind of described how you went about doing it, but, I mean, there were lots and lots of bits and pieces to putting this together. Did you have just an enormous amount of help? Was this…

Lea Rainey: I did—[sarcastic] no there’s no help. [Callie laughs] [Callie Zamzow: You were amazing.] I don't know about that. I just… I think… yeah, again, I'm a systems thinker. I'm a problem solver. So it's… and I was a project manager and delivery manager for years, so, you know, you just kind of like, okay, here's a list of things that are in grocery stores. What are the things that are the most problematic? What's important… you know, knowing your why. And that has just kind of become such a buzzword. But it is true. I mean, if you know exactly why you're doing something, it all falls in line. And if you never stray from that, then you continue to bolster that idea whether everybody else wants to come along and join you or not. As… as is many times in our case at Roots, I know what it is. And so even if nobody else is totally down with it, I'm going to keep on moving forward. I may change it and modify it so that I can try and help them understand it more. But it's pretty simple. Yeah. I mean, you need shampoo, you need vegetables, you need oats. You know, you need toilet paper, you need spices, you need olive oil. Right? I'm also a cook. So, like, I know that those are all the things that I need. And then I live in a house, and I know there's things that I need in my house. And then I know about the environment, and… if I'm going to be… so then the next—so that was the basis, right. So then the next thing is, okay, well, if I'm bringing in all these goods and what if people don't buy them or they are perishable, they're going to go out. Everything has a date. And if I'm only using organic, I'm already invested in only working with farmers who are doing right by the land at the base level to then begin…you know, supporting them. So I'm not going to dishonor their harvest. [Callie Zamzow: Yeah]. You know, I, I can't, like, be like others and throw it away or not have a solution for it. And so then we have the deli. So the deli is fully there not to satiate my love of cooking and my food… my foodiness. [Callie Zamzow: Although there's a little…] I mean, I love that. [Callie Zamzow: Right.] That's where I love to be the most. But it's there because we needed to… we needed, in the back end—which grocery stores are not—to be responsible for our waste stream. And so that was a great place to do that. If it's a green that's not selling that I thought was really great… community or something like that that nobody's really understanding…you know, it doesn't sit on that bookshelf and just go stale. You know, it makes its way into the kitchen and we start rotating it in. That was the other thing. You know, I also looked at, like, through my experience of trying to shop more bulk, how frustrated I was at how dirty they were and how… you know, just like piles of stuff. They get that way. Right. Bulk sections get dirty. Yeah, but like also how I would look at the grain bins and they would kind of be… brown film, and I'd be like, what is that? Well, it's scratches because it's plastic. [Callie Zamzow: Ah.]. And so all the particulate gets stuck in there. And so no matter how much you try and fix that, you know, it's either going to have to be disposed of, which again, plastic in the environment…there's no solution for that kind of plastic. You know, I thought… I looked to Europe and I thought, okay, what are the food safety standards there? How are they getting around that? And, you know, they do a lot of the same stuff that we're doing here in that way anyway. So these all lead you to the building blocks. So we have steel bins that we had manufactured in Belgium. The only ones in the country. You know, food would be wasted… like, wasting too fast on produce stands. Or actually what I noticed in produce stands is that everything's wet and that everything is heavier than it probably needs to be. But also you can tell that the microorganisms are already starting to eat away at your food. [Callie Zamzow: Right, you really can.] You really can. Your lettuce or your carrots… I mean, there's something about them that, you know, they aren't working well. So, okay, I don't think a sprinkler system is great. Also, we live in a desert and we're in a drought. And this whole country, this whole world is in trouble for water. Why are we sprinkling our vegetables that have not only been sprinkled on the field so that they can be to us? You know, there's got to be a better way. So I looked to a company called Contronics in the Netherlands, and they are the cutting edge of food preservation technology once it's off the field, and brought that over. So they just deliver humidity. You know, that also means that my back end is only wasting 350 gallons of water a year with a one-gallon flush a day versus thousands and millions of gallons that are sitting out there just sprinkling your carrots.

Callie Zamzow: This conversation's blowing my mind right now. [Lea laughs.] Yeah. The depth of… of where you've gone. I had no idea. And, you know, I feel like I owe you an apology, that I have lived in this community. And you've been… you've been—how long has it been?

Lea Rainey: Six years.

Callie Zamzow: Okay. Six years. And I drive past, and I know about it. My niece worked for you for a little while. Addy.

Lea Rainey: Oh. Addy. Yes!

Callie Zamzow: Yes. So I know… I'm fully aware and I have never… I've never come in before. So this brings my difficult question I was going to tell you about earlier—

Lea Rainey: Well can I just say this. [Callie Zamzow: Yeah.] We're a retailer disguised as environmentalists. Or, we're environmentalists disguised as retailers, sorry. So we… we aren't great at what the outside looks like or the, you know, that kind of stuff. [Callie Zamzow: Yeah.] And if maybe we were… and we certainly are thinking about that. You know, I'd love to change our logo. I'd love to change our sign. You know, when you come in to anything, you're always maybe more… well, first of all, poorer. And so, you know, we did, like, a $50 Fiverr design to come up with the Roots Market… you know what I mean? [Callie Zamzow: Yeah.] Like, you're just trying to get it up and running. So, you know, I don't think that there are apologies needed, because nobody would know this back-end stuff unless they get to know us more. But, you know, I do think we have to accept some fault of that.

Callie Zamzow: So… but here's the thing. I am absolutely your customer. [Lea Rainey: I know.] I totally am.

Lea Rainey: I think most of Boise is.

Callie Zamzow: I agree. Yes. I totally agree. So what… what is missing? Why—am I just a bad person—[Lea Rainey: No.] what might be? Because I'm telling you right now, within the next five days I'm going to be in. I'm going to go in [Lea Rainey: Yeah.] and you're probably going to have a customer for life [Lea Rainey: Yeah.] because I… I… we totally are on exactly the same page. I… and I love all the work that you're going to do that I don't have to do, right, to do the right thing.

Callie Zamzow: So… but why? Why, why, why have I not done this? Shrink my head for a minute.

Lea Rainey: Which it is. I mean, I think that any retail business, but especially this one, you know, it is a… it's an exercise in anthropology. I mean, I really do think deeply about what drives us as people. So I think there's probably a few factors. I think as much as you… as much…as much as everyone says that they care, they just don't. [Callie: We get busy.] No, that's an excuse. [Callie: Yeah.] I'm busy. And yet, you know, I'm going to seek out the things that are not always going to be convenient for me. Because that's what's important to me. [Callie: Right.] Right? When I was… you know, I worked at the Co-op on Hill Road in the 90s.

Callie Zamzow: Oh, gosh. Yeah I was just telling my daughter about that.

Lea Rainey: When I moved from The Metro, and I worked in the deli there for six years, under my friend Lisa. And, it was a destination shop. [Callie: Yep.] Do you think that was an easy place for anybody to get to? [Callie: It wasn't. We went as kids. Like, my parents would take us.] Yeah. And was there any parking there? [Callie:  No. None.] It was scary. [Callie: And it was jam-packed. Very small. So packed small.] That wasn't a… you know, people will do it if you feel it. So I don't mean to be, like, you know, activist in that way, but I do have to think that we all have to ask ourselves the questions like, why don't we do the things that we should do if we're aligned with it? [Callie: Yeah.] So I think, you know, maybe just that… you know, what's going to kick somebody into that spot. Maybe it's this podcast, you know, maybe the opportunity to just talk about it and learn more about it. I think people feel that organics are expensive, and most of the word's gotten around that we're organic. And we definitely are breaking that social stigma. So organics are not more expensive. For some things, yes, but they are mainstream now. Right? It's the… it's the margins that the stores want to continue to take and that shareholders want to continue to build upon that keep organic vegetables expensive. And so I think that's a factor, because a lot of people socially have been told that organics are not for them. They don't deserve good food. They can't afford it. And so that's one thing. Our location is problematic, but it was specific. We moved into Garden City because Garden City has been a food desert for 45 years. There's not a grocery store that's walkable within a mile and a half. And it is an area that we've always liked. Like, my husband and I used to ride our bikes around there. We'd visit artists there. I mean, the community there is really cool in the East End…you know, we are an artist community. Surfboards get made out of old plastic. You know, reclaimed jewelry is made there. We are very, very green. That whole space is so green. The potters reuse their, you know, their… their potting base. It's just like secret… it's like secret preservation of the area over there. So location, you know, affordability or the stigma of affordability. Caring. And, you know, I think people might think it's difficult. It's an interesting thing that when you take out all the shelves that you would normally—like your little cattle trough that you get to go down in other stores—and everybody talks about that as being so overwhelming, right? Being stocked and shouted at by everything. But the same exact thing happens when people come into Roots. They are overwhelmed by the space of it all. [Callie: Hmm interesting.] And by the lack of, like, direction that we're… you know, we try and give you a little direction when you come into the space, but it's… it's so… it's like, oh, my God, I don't know what to do here. So I think that that also, you know, concerns people. People think they have to be prepared to come in. They never do.

Callie Zamzow: But that's what I was just going to say. I'm… I'm… I'm… I'm having an existential crisis here. When I think about actually going there—and I will in the next five days—is I will have these feelings of, do I belong here? [Lea: Yeah why is that?] So I don't know… I don't know, but that's— I mean, I'm going to now. I… I do. I'm going to. 

Lea Rainey: God I feel so bad about that. I really want to understand that more because you're not the only person that said that to me. And it felt like… it kind of, like, breaks my heart.

Callie Zamzow: I… and I feel that. Yeah, I feel that. But I think there is something that, like, those of us, when you're not living as, you know, maybe altruistically as you'd like, we kind of have these ideas that we want to and we're not. Maybe there's a self-confidence thing. We're like, I'm… I'm really, you know, I'm wearing a mask. I'm not really who I, you know…You know what I'm saying? So then now when I'm asked to go into a store that personifies that part of me that I have not been living up to, do I belong there, or will they smell me out? Like, will I walk in and will an alarm go off and— I'm like, nope. Callie, turn back around. You have not been living this life. Yeah, no, you don't belong here.

Lea Rainey: Well, let me just set the record straight for everyone. My favorite chip is a Pringle. [Callie Zamzow: Oh. All right.] I can only buy that in a plastic bag currently at Albertsons. This is not a journey of all or nothing. The whole planet fate is not a journey of all or nothing. It is a start where you are. You know, make it… find the places that, you know, might be different and check them out. It's not going to be for everybody. But, yeah, I… I really feel that. And I identify with that. And sometimes I get worried that the more that I talk about our mission or the back end of it and really all the thoughtfulness that's gone in it, that it does start to freak people out. Really, what I want people to know is that it's a grocery store. It's a neighborhood market. So that's also why we have the deli. Not everybody is totally comfortable with getting rice out of a bulk bin, but everybody needs a sandwich. And everybody loves a cookie. [Callie Zamzow: That's true.] You know? So it also serves as that place that it's like, just come in and maybe have that, or grab a beer or a bottle, you know what I mean? A bottle of wine. Just think of it like, you know, in the most convenient convenience store. [Callie Zamzow: I love that.] In a lot of ways. Right? It's most convenient for the planet. We make it the most convenient for everybody because we have supply jars that are sanitized from the community. We divert about 11 tons of glass a year…just by allowing our customers to come in, and we sanitize and sterilize them, and we pre-weigh them for you. So if you come in for flour and you really figured out you needed olive oil, there's a jar for you. There are paper bags everywhere. There are the same grocery store grocery carts that are in every other grocery store. There are the same grocery baskets that are in the same… you know. So, you don't— yes, it's weird that maybe you might be used to putting everything in a plastic bag when you get it off the produce stand. But you don't need to. You just put it in your, you know, in your basket, and then we'll bag it up for you. If you don't have your own reusable bag or you forgot it, we have a box or a bag just like the one you can see over here.

Callie Zamzow: This is helpful. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for speaking to my heart and making me feel welcome there. I know it's so strange. I feel like I've just, you know, like, opened my heart up here and exposed myself, but, But I do feel much better about it, and I [Lea Rainey: I hope it’s okay.] And I… hopefully—Oh it is. And I hope that there are other people that resonate with the way that I'm feeling that are also saying, yeah, I can do this. Like, this is… yeah, this is going to be a good thing to come check it out.

Lea Rainey: Yeah. I mean, it's like a new coffee shop. Or any other new place that, you know, you haven't been before.

Callie Zamzow: I also don't like doing that. [Callie laughs.] [Lea Rainey: Yeah, I know.] Although I will say I did try a new coffee shop recently, and they have wonderful things. So, yeah.

Lea Rainey: Brand loyalty… I mean, brand loyalty has been built into us since, you know, the 40s and 50s, right? When marketing really came on. And now we all love the Mad Men, right? But brand marketing is a huge thing, right? So getting people to believe that, like, the five-ingredient laundry soap is better than Tide, right? That's practically impossible. It happens. It takes a long time, you know, to convince people, which is why we test everything for at least 30 days. And, like, if it doesn't meet those Procter & Gamble standards that I worked around, you know what I mean? Like, to me, as a kid… as an adult…then it doesn't make it. And so we do have a pretty curated list of things in there, too, because there are a lot of things on the zero waste list that don't work. And that's also frustrating to consumers who may have tried to, you know, be a little bit more environmentally conscious in their purchasing, that there's just a lot of greenwashing out there and a lot of inefficacy in those products. And so then people are like, well, that's a great idea, but it doesn't work, and I'm not doing it.

Callie Zamzow: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that definitely works against things because I think we can be stubborn then. Have been in one area one time or… like, I can't do it again. [Lea Rainey: Yeah. Totally, totally.] Yeah. So, okay. Well, was there… was there a… a point where you had a, like, a validating moment, like a customer that said something to you or some moment that you were like, yeah, all this work is worth it?

Lea Rainey: Yeah. I'm… yeah. I can't think of one particular validating moment. Every day we have those. I get hugs. I get people, you know, that will say, like, this is so valuable to me. I mean, I think it's just people coming in over and over again, like bringing their jars and stuff, you know, and, like, filling them. Our statistics are validating moments to me, right? Because we can all have feelings about how things are going. But when I look at the numbers of, you know, just the sheer waste—we only run on two, like, residential trash cans for the entire grocery store and restaurant. [Callie Zamzow: Wow.] So every week I get to go out there. And, in fact, I didn't get picked up last week. And so we just had one out there. I mean, really, we had one and a half residential trash cans for two weeks of trash at the store. [Callie Zamzow: That's amazing.] So that's validating to me. Yeah. You know, I just think that there are some customers that used to put their oranges in paper bags and things like that, and they now don't do that, you know, because we're just so used to separating everything out. And that feels good to me. Or when somebody has only come in and, you know, only visited the deli and usually only gotten a coffee… you know, aren't sure about why our potato salad is so different than Razers', but it, you know, like, worried them. They now are shopping the whole grocery store. They just had to get comfortable.

Callie Zamzow: Right. All right, well, speaking of getting comfortable, I… I want to mention our lovely sponsors that I'm very comfortable with because it's a family business. And this… this episode is brought to you by Zamzows, your local source for garden, pet, and planet-friendly products. Zamzows believes in nurturing your connection, our connection, to nature, whether it's through sustainable gardening, caring for animals, or simply getting outside. So to learn more, visit zamzows.com or stop by one of our Treasure Valley locations. Nobody Knows like Zamzows. Smooth transition. What do you think of that? [Lea Rainey: I loved it.] Callie Zamzow: I'm getting better with each episode, although the fact that I have to announce it to everybody that I'm doing it… maybe that could go away. Okay. So, I want to kind of shift gears a little bit here into a segment we like to call Sharing Is Caring. So I… I just wanted to ask a couple of, like, almost, like, rapid fire questions for you. So, what is a refill product that you swear by?

Lea Rainey: Our laundry powder. [Callie Zamzow: Oh, really?] Yep. One tablespoon for a large, like, sheets and towel load. Still allows for absorbency, so I love it for my kitchen towels. Because they don't… you know, they'll still soak up water. Which doesn't happen with other detergents because there's a film that goes over them. Best for the environment. Yeah, it's… it's the best.

Callie Zamzow: Awesome. I love that. Okay. All right. How about a book or a documentary that has shaped how you see waste or sustainability?

Lea Rainey: I don't know that they're necessarily… so I… I love Wasted, which is a documentary. Certainly. I already mentioned, you know, the Al Gore movies, but, the most important book that I read frequently is Braiding Sweetgrass. And I've been probably reading that book since Robin Kimmerer put it out. So it's about the environment and our relationship to nature. It's not really about the… the doom of where we are. It just helps connect me so that… so that I can go out rejuvenated to do that.

Callie Zamzow: Okay. That's the second recommendation for that book and being tapped on the shoulder.

Lea Rainey: Yeah. And I think that The Serviceberry— The Serviceberry is just her little mini guide that kind of, like, just came out this year. And if… if you want to foray into it, that'll probably take you an afternoon. And that's a good way to start into hearing her language.

Callie Zamzow: Okay. Yeah. Love it. How about a local business or leader that you admire?

Lea Rainey: I admire a few. I admire Lisa DeBole. She was my mentor for years, and she's been my… I mean, we knew each other in McCall. We've been friends for a long time. So just watching how she creates and her passion for that over all of these years has been really, really great. And her, you know, just business acumen around food…like, her understanding of, like, food and the gift of food has always really impressed upon me. I also really admire Earl Sullivan at Telaya. You know, we've really gotten to know each other over the years because they are very neighborhood supportive. So we did cheese charcuterie boards for them for a long time. And, you know, and I've watched them grow, and, you know, he's always been pretty pragmatic, but he's also been able to, like, show me that you can embrace sometimes the tide that's coming at you, and… and then sometimes you get into doing parts of your business you never thought you would. But it's necessary. And… and… and to figure out a way to embrace that as well.

Callie Zamzow: Okay. That's a dinner party I want to be invited to. [Callie and Lea laugh.] Yeah, that sounds incredible. Okay. Last question. What is something that's kept you hopeful lately?

Lea Rainey: Our customers. Like, when I really want to just throw it in, it's Sherry that comes through from our Tai Chi group, which we have every Tuesday and Thursday in our community room. And, you know, it's just her saying a kind word. You know, repeat customer rate. And all of those people share something with us, and that's a really… it's extraordinary. It's hard to walk away, in my mind, from anything like that. I mean, it is important to them. What… you know, what would they be doing on a Tuesday morning if they weren't doing this anymore?

Callie Zamzow: Man, customers really are the best validation. And, and speaking of which, I want to offer up a tip to our wonderful customers as we are heading into the end of summer. If you are somebody who is looking at your grass and you're feeling badly about how it turned out this year because it maybe doesn't look as good as you want it to…Zamzows is absolutely here to help you, and I think the biggest thing right now is thinking ahead and planning for what you're going to do this fall to repair it, because fall is the absolutely best time for you to repair your lawn. And I promise you, you can do things this fall that will make your lawn… basically, you can completely repair it so that next spring, when it pops up and is, you know, ready to roll, it will be your greenest lawn in the neighborhood. And we can help you with that. And it's… and it's easy steps. We can help you with reseeding. We can help you with the fertilizing. And then there's a step that happens at the tail end, almost at Thanksgiving, that you can put down that will slowly feed your grass all winter long and leave you with beautiful grass in the spring. So I'm telling you this now, a little bit earlier in the season, because I want for you to be thinking about doing that this fall. And, and then I promise you, you're going to be able to have a beautiful lawn next year. Okay? Now is the time for our signature question that we ask all of our guests. You know, our jingle: Nobody Knows Zamzows. So what is something that nobody knows?

Lea Rainey: I'll pick one from the grocery store and one from me. [Callie Zamzow: Yeah, absolutely.] Nobody knows— I don't think that… or at least I didn't know that kiwis would be our best seller. [Callie Zamzow: No kidding.] No kidding. People here are crazy for kiwis. They fly off of my shelf. Whoever would have known that? I never would have known that. It's the funniest thing. Tons of potassium. [Callie Zamzow: Oh, there you go.] So that was my… that's my business shocker. What nobody knows about me is that, when I… between the ages of 14 and 20, I was an opera singer, and I sang all over the world and performed in some small operas in California. Yeah. I had a full-ride scholarship to Juilliard, which I could not take because I couldn't afford to actually live there. But I did take a full-ride scholarship to Lionel Hampton University, and… and I only lasted six months because I really wanted to go out and be an opera singer. And so I went to L.A. after that, and… and within a few performances—[Callie Zamzow: I-I’m stunned.] See? You didn’t know.

Callie Zamzow: I'm stunned. [Lea Rainey: See, you didn't know.] That's incredible. I mean, for people who don't know, like, we toured Juilliard with my daughter and they were like, yeah, there are, you know, 24 people get in, and maybe 24 people. And then of that, like, some are drummers, some are opera, some are… like, it's not like 24 in each category either. Like, it is really hard to get in there. So that's amazing.

Lea Rainey: It was called a partial because they didn't pay for our housing. Like, you had to find housing in the city, but I could go to the school. [Callie Zamzow: That's amazing.] I didn't have to pay. That was the deal. You could go to the school. You don't have to pay for the school. If you can find your way into an apartment somewhere here, then we got…gotcha [Callie Zamzow: Ugh,. I want to hear you sing.] Not anymore. I mean, what are we… 40 years… like, you know, 40 years after that… 30 years after that? No. But it was a dream. And it was, you know, it was fun and afforded me some pretty awesome experiences, like singing in Notre Dame and, you know, pretty cool.

Callie Zamzow: Oh, yeah. I'm… I'm so stunned. I… I need to… I need to wrap up this episode. I don't even know what to do with myself right now. Like, this has been such a lovely conversation, and all it's left me is wanting more. [Lea Rainey: Thank you.] I just… you're such an interesting person. You're driven. You have such heart. You are exactly the person sitting in front of me. There's no… you haven't brought any pretenses or anything false or weird that is not you. It's all you and I… it's— what a gift. What a gift to give, to even be around you. So thank you for being in the studio. Thank you for being one of my first guests.

Callie Zamzow: I really, really appreciate this, and I really hope that we get to talk again and continue this conversation because it's just been lovely.

Lea Rainey: Thank you. You too. Come in for the market for a hug.

Callie Zamzow: I will, I will. You got it. Okay. If you loved today's episode, follow the show, leave a review, and most importantly, shop local and support Roots Zero Waste Market if you can. know I'm going to. They're a business that is doing big things for Boise, and they're backed by this wonderful woman that you just met. So let's support them. I think this is fantastic. Thanks, everybody.

[Music fades out.]