[Music plays.]

Narrator: Welcome to the Nobody Knows podcast with Callie Zamzow. Join us for conversations with local changemakers and hear the stories that don’t always get told. It’ll be honest, messy, and beautiful. Touching and humorous. Slow down for a glass and pull up a chair. This is the Nobody Knows podcast.

Callie Zamzow: Welcome to the Nobody Knows Podcast. This is a particularly special recording because, I've been surprised with a guest that I was not expecting. I was all set to have somebody else in the studio, and I was kind of had my head down prepping, and I had my daughter walk in and I thought she was just coming in to say hello, and I realized she's my guest today, and it's just a surprise. And it's so wonderful. And I'm so excited. And before I—before I knew this, I had already planned what I was going to talk about. And that's this period of time right now that I'm in that is, like, all-consuming in my life because I only have one daughter, and she's—she just turned 18, and she is—she graduated from high school this spring, and she's headed off to college this fall. And so we're in this interesting summertime, and I have kind of jokingly called it purgatory because, you know, in the Roman Catholic Church, they say that, you know, you pass away, but before you actually enter the gates of heaven, you go into this, like, cleansing period. That's like a—it's like a momentary piece of time where you're not, you know, you're not alive and you're also not in heaven yet. And so, anyway, I feel like this is somewhat purgatory-esque because I—I really want to slow time down because this is, like, last time with my daughter before she heads off to this, like, life-changing journey. But also, it's really hard to just be at the summer. Like, I'm feeling like I'm itchy because I just want to, like—in some ways, I want to move it forward. But I know that as soon as she's gone—and not gone forever, but you know, for a little while—that I'm going to wish I had the summer back. And so I'm just really caught in this very strange place that I've never been before. So I was going to say that without you being my guest. But here you are. So welcome, welcome, welcome to the studio. My daughter, Rafielle Novak. [Rafielle laughs.]

Rafielle Novak: Hi mom.

Callie Zamzow: Oh, I'm so glad to have you here. So, why don't you take just a moment? Do you want to tell people a little bit about who you are and what you're about to head off to do?

Rafielle Novak: I mean sure, I'm 18 and I'm headed off to NYU Tisch this fall. And I'm majoring in theater. I've kind of been a theater nerd my whole life, but growing up in Boise, we don't have a ton of theater options, especially not in my schools that I went to over the years. So my theater background is not super diverse, but I've always had my sights set on NYU and getting to study theater there. I'm super, super excited for—and I mean, I'm kind of in the same purgatory as my mom because I'm—I don't have all the information. Everybody's asking me for information. I don't have information to give them. And as soon as I get information, I give it to them and they ask more questions and I'm like, hey, this is all I have. You have all that I know. And yes, mom, I do have homework and yes, ma’am, I am working on it and da-da-da-da. So I'm stuck in the same purgatory as my mom. But yeah, with the 29 days that I have left, I'm definitely going to probably want this time back when I'm on the East Coast.

Callie Zamzow: No doubt. No doubt. Well, I understand that we're flipping this podcast on its ear here a little bit and that you have questions for me.
 

Rafielle Novak: I do.

Callie Zamzow: Oh boy. Here we go.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: I did you want to start into those?
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Sure. I'm a little nervous. I gotta admit.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Okay, my first question for you, mom, is when you think about me leaving for college, what is the first thing that pops into your head?
 Callie Zamzow: Oh my gosh, you're just going to try to make me cry this whole episode, aren't you? I—the first thing that I think about is, I'm just so proud of you. How—boy, I am going to cry. I—I was not like you when I was your age. I—I did go off to college. I went to California, and I thought that was very, very, very far away. And it was what I could handle. I didn't—I didn't even have New York City on my brain at all. Like, that was out of the question. That might as well have been to Europe as far as I was concerned. [Rafielle laughs.] It was just—and the fact that you not only are excited about going to a place that is far away, but also—I mean, it's very different than Boise and it's—and it's like, in some ways, people say it's the center of the universe. I mean, there's so much going on in New York City and I—I just—I'm in awe when I think about the difference in—I'm—you share a lot of my genetics, but you're so very different in how capable and how brave you are. So that's what I think about. And I think about it a lot. [Rafielle laughs.] In case you're wondering, anytime I want to make myself cry, I think about it.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Yeah.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: What else?
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Well, going back to you talking about going to college in California—which I didn't know about, but it's okay—what were you most scared of when you left for home the first time?
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Oh, I was—I think I was most scared about the relationships that I was going to build. I wasn't sure—I didn't know anybody at—at—I went to Santa Clara. I didn't know anybody. And I—I was really, really worried about whether I was going to find my—find my people. And, it was scary to me. I wasn't sure how that worked, how—how you walk in flat-footed. And the thing that I didn't know at the time, but I very quickly learned and reminded myself of almost daily for a little while, is that everybody there was in the same boat. But I didn't know that going into it. I was—I was just very, very worried about that. And, it does matter. And you've seen me—I'm still friends with my friends from Santa Clara. I—we've held onto those friendships now for quite some time. [Rafielle laughs.]
 
 

Rafielle: [Sarcastic] Whaaaat.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: We like to gather. We still gather. Sometimes they come and visit and you know them, and I—so, you know, you've seen that the bonding that you have with your college friends is unlike anything else. Like, it just really is. I think there's something about not having your—your parents or your home or any of the things that you're—that you're accustomed to. And the same thing with your roommate and the same thing for the kids next door. And you bond like nobody's business, whether you like it or not. And sometimes, you know, some of the people that I bond with, I love them. But, you know, we're not super close because, you know, we're not—you know, we're not great friends, but we—we're still bonded because we went through something that is unlike anything else. It's just a very unique time. I'm excited for you to have that experience.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Thanks, mom. What's one thing you wish you did more of in college? And, going off of that, one thing you wish you had done less of?
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Oh, wow. I wish I would have—I wish I would have been more involved in, like, clubs and things like that. I was—I, for a time, I kind of got into the academic part, but then I joined a sorority and that kind of lightened me up a little bit. And, and really the things that we did in the sorority and frankly, some of the shenanigans made college really memorable. And I realized if I had done more things like that—if I joined some things and, you know, maybe tried some new things, joined clubs of activities I hadn't done before, you know, you know, did intramural volleyball or something—that that would have been—it probably would have enriched the process even more. So that was—that—I would do more of that. Less—oh, what do I say with my daughter in the room that I would do less. [Rafielle groans, laughing.] I'm—you know, there—that's a—this is a really hard one. As far as less of, I probably—I probably—well, I—I guess as—as I look back on it with my current situation, I probably would have done less longing for home, if that makes sense. That's kind of—kind of reverse that too, like getting more involved with things, which kind of go hand in hand. But I did spend—I did spend some time that I can't get back just, you know, wishing I was back home again. And the time goes so fast. Like, four years are going to be gone. And you think about your high school and how quickly that went. Those four years went so fast. College is going to be just like that. It'll be a blink of an eye and you'll be asking if you can stay a fifth year. The answer's no. [Callie and Rafielle laugh.] But—but yeah, get—get into it and get going. And—and when you have—you'll have times where you're—where you're longing for home. But, I think as quickly as you can get out of that and say, you know what, I'm going to be in the now, right now. And, and I'll be home in 57 days or whatever it is.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: 56. [Rafielle and Callie laugh.]
 
 

Callie Zamzow: That's right. Anyway, so yeah, that—that's a kind of a strange answer, I realize.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Sure. [Rafielle laughs.]
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Of course you're going to do—
 
 

Callie Zamzow: I had to. [Rafielle laughs.]
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Mom, what is your funniest or most embarrassing college story?
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Oh my gosh, it's my—it's still, hands down, my—my current most embarrassing moment. So, at Santa Clara, there was this—and it's still there, but now it's filled in with grass—but there was the square. It was called Kennedy Mall. And—and, my dorm sat right on Kennedy Mall. And so—and I was up on the sixth floor. Oh, actually, no. That's right. So I was up on the sixth floor. And then, of course, you walk across campus and, you know, go to your classes. Well, it was a rainy day. And I had spent the weekend before with my Aunt Katie, my mom's twin sister, as you know, who lived about 45 minutes away. And I spent the weekend with her and we were talking about nylons and, like, leggings and things like that. And she had introduced the concept that really nylons are underwear, so you don't really have to wear underwear under your nylons. So this had just been introduced to me and I had some nylons, and I was wearing a dress that day. And so I decided to take her advice. Well, I had my backpack on and this long skirt, and the backpack—every step that I took, and I think the humidity in the air caused part of it—it began to grab, the backpack began to grab the back of my skirt, and slowly, with every step, hike, hike, hike, hike it up to where it was gathered up underneath my backpack by the time I got to class. And as you know, because I was wearing nylons and with my newly found, you know, way to wear them, I—I think I exposed my—my behind to pretty much everybody on campus as I walked to class, and it was, like, my farthest class. I walked all the way through campus that way. I only noticed it when I sat down, and it was really cold. And I looked down and I realized that my skirt—and I went to go take my backpack off and my skirt was all bunched up—and I was like, oh my gosh. I think I just sat there red-faced and embarrassed the entire class. I probably didn't learn anything that day. Sorry, mom and dad. I don’t think I learned anything that day. [Rafielle laughs.]
 
 

Rafielle Novak: That's painful.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: So bad.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: I mean, I had a similar experience the other day when I was wearing jeans while babysitting two 10-year-old boys, and I was sitting down while they were doing their homework, and the seat was oddly cold, and I had realized that I had split the entire back of my pants open, and who knows how long it's been that way.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: I'm still surprised that the boys didn't notice—that that seems like such a thing that they would do. They'd be like, what? But—
 
 

Rafielle Novak: [Enthusiastic.] Me too!
 
 

Callie Zamzow: They're such nice kids. They probably really didn't even notice that.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Yeah. Let's hope. Let's hope. [Callie laughs.]
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Oh, so embarrassing. So I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Sorry about that one. [Rafielle laughs.]
 
 

Rafielle Novak: It’s okay mom. Okay, we're diving into a deeper question. What is something that you don't think I know yet about life on my own?
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Oh, my gosh.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: I nailed these questions, didn’t I? [Callie laughs.]
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Wow. What—what—what—I think that you don't yet know—
 
 

Rafielle Novak: About life on my own.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: About life on your own. I think—I've got—I've got—I've got a small down-the-lump here. You don't know—[tearful] you don't know how amazing you are. And, you're—you have so much. You have so much going for you. And you have so many things that you're doing right now, and you're just trying to put one foot in the other—in front of the other. Not in the other—but one foot in front of the other. And you're trying—you just—I mean, you have so much that you're juggling that you can't possibly know. And in—when you're in the thick of it, you won't know then either. But at some point you will look back and you'll say, holy shit, I did that. Like, you're going to do. And you'll—and then you'll—and then you'll begin to kind of come into your own. I think there'll be this, kind of, reckoning with yourself, I think. But I—everybody around you can see your greatness. I hear it all the time. And—and I think it's probably good that you don't. I think that's healthy. And I think that that's—I think it's a good thing. But—but, man, it's going to be fun to watch you when you do—when you—when you fully—when you fully understand how, A, how powerful you are, B, how capable you are, how smart you are.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Yeah. Thanks, mom.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: You're welcome.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: You were my role model who got me to be that person—[Callie: [tearful] Oh boy.] You know that right?
 
 

Callie Zamzow: This is terrible. I just—I—I'm just, like, tearing up right and left.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Okay. What is something about me that reminds you of yourself at my age?

Callie Zamzow: Gosh. You—you—I think you and I have the same outlook on life. I think we have this, like, it's all going to work out, kind of, you know. And sometimes that's dangerous because sometimes—guess what—it doesn't work out. [Rafielle laughs.]
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Yeah.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: But I think that we—I think there—and it's—and it's a blessing and a curse. But mostly I think it's a blessing. It has served me well to always have this—you know, this—this sort of positivity about things and saying, well, let's give it a try and it's going to be okay. It's all going to work out. And—but I see that in you. It's a little different flavor in you. Again, you know, you have this—this different take on life and, you know, it's—it's—it's yours. It's—it's your take on it. But I do think sometimes I'll see you, you know, jumping before looking, because, yeah, there's probably water in the pool, you know. I mean, that's very much how I can be. And—and so it makes me cringe sometimes. I think, oh, that was so great. [Rafielle laughs.] But then I also have to look in the mirror and say, she probably learned from you, Callie. So yeah. Well, these are good questions. They're hard. They're—you're making me think. And feel.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Thank you.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Darn it. [Callie and Rafielle laugh.]
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Okay, mom, what's something about me that is totally different from you in a good way. Obviously don't talk about the bad stuff, mom.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Oh boy. This could be fun. Okay. So something about you that is totally—say that again.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: What is something about me that's totally different from you? In a good way.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Hmm. You—I think we—I think you and I can both be performers, but you're much better at it than I am. Like, you’re—you like—you—you've been—I mean, you—you took a guitar—I think you were in, like, fifth grade when you decided to sing a song in front of the whole school and you chose to sing a Taylor Swift song that could get everybody to start singing along with you. And you were by yourself with an acoustic guitar, and you got the whole gymnasium singing a song. Like, I just—I—I never would have had that. Why—I didn't know how to play guitar at that age. You—you've been playing guitar since you were really, really little. But I also just—there's an aspect to how you perform and literally when you're performing, like when you're creating songs or when you're acting or when you're—and—and you—it just seems so second nature to you. I love doing it. It's not second nature to me. I mean, you can talk to Jodi, the producer, about how difficult it is for me just to, you know, one, memorize a line, get it out and say it right, whereas you would probably knock it out in one set, you know. It's like—just—you're just better at that. And it's really fun to watch. It's really fun. I mean, I just—you're a fun entertainer. Like, I—a lot of times when you're doing things, I forget that you're my daughter sometimes. Like, I'll see you performing. I'm like, man, like, this kid's good. I'm like, oh yeah, she's my kid. But that—but that's you, baby. That's you.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: How you feeling, mom?
 
 

Callie Zamzow: I'm feeling good. This is fun. It's fun to talk to you.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Yeah.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: For the whole world to see. [Callie and Rafielle laugh.]
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Yeah, for the whole world to see. Okay, mom, what do you think is the best thing about this new chapter for me?
 
 

Callie Zamzow: I think that you're going to like adulting.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Yeah?
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Yeah, I do. I think that you—as an only child, I think you've spent your life around adults. And that the times when you have struggled and maybe not enjoyed it as much is when you were around your peers. [Rafielle: Mhm.] And I think entering this adult world, I think the adult world is going to eat you up. They're just going to love you. Because they always have. And so I think that—I think you're going to like it, too. I think you're going to like it—much like—so you remember you took that Boise State class last year, and they were all, like, juniors and seniors. And you were a junior in high school?
 
 

Callie Zamzow: No, you were—
 
 

Rafielle Novak: I was a senior.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Senior. That's right. But you were—they were—commuting over to Boise State and taking this class with these kids, and some of them were getting ready to graduate, and none of them knew that you were a high school kid, and they just welcomed you in. And you—and remember that feeling that you had where, like, oh, they're treating me like—like nobody's belittling me. Nobody's, like, competing with me. Like, we're all—and that's—that's—that's a—that's a little part of adulting that I think that you're going to really like.

Rafielle Novak: Yeah, I think so too. I remember when I did my first performance in that class and I just announced, like, I'm really nervous. I've never done this before. And they were like, you're going to do great. We just know it. Like, it was super supportive and I didn't even know their names. I don't even think they knew my name. And if they did, sorry, I didn't know your name. [Callie laughs.] Like, it was—it was so eye-opening. And even just to have that one class twice a week for one semester, like, it really made high school for me.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: I think it helped you decide on—on taking a bigger leap with your college too [Rafielle: Mhm.] because it was like, I think I can do this. This is—this is fun.

Rafielle Novak: Yeah, especially—it especially helped me with the decision between business and theater.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Yeah.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: They're both important aspects of my life. And theater took the lead.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Yeah. It's good. I'm excited for the first show that you're going to be—and then I get to go to. [Callie and Rafielle laugh.]
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Me too mom. Speaking of you getting to see my shows, what do you hope our relationship looks like when I'm away?
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Oh—oh—oh. I hope that I am able to, from afar, be able to—And I don't mean to say parent you, because I think at this point it's—it's much different. It's not the same as parenting. But I hope that, from afar, we're able to continue to—to build on our relationship in a—in—in this new, different way. I mean, we were talking before the show about how we just went to Vegas together, and it was like an adult trip, the two of us, and we really did treat each other as peers that entire—that entire time. That's what I look forward to. I know there'll be times—there'll be—straight up—times where you're calling your mama and you just—you just want to have a conversation where I'm clearly your mom and you're the daughter, and—but I—but I do look forward to kind of the shift in that and—yeah—hearing—hearing about your day and, taking it all—and I'm just—I can—I can already imagine how that is going to be. [Rafielle laughs.] It really is going to be an incredible chapter, although I'm very scared about it, too, if I can be honest.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Oh, yeah. I'm—I'm so terrified. I'm so scared.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: This is new. It's new territory for us for sure.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Yeah. Scared and terrified and excited all in one.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Yeah. It's true, it's true.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Okay, I have one more question for you.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Okay.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: If you could leave me with one piece of mom wisdom that I would actually listen to, what would it be?
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Oh, boy. Is there such a thing? [Callie laughs.] A piece of mom wisdom that you would actually listen to. I—okay, this is legit. Like, I was thinking about this recently. I—I would really like to see you learn how to be quiet with yourself, to meditate or to do yoga, or to do some sort of a non-electronic thing where you are with yourself, where you listen to yourself, or you just listen to the universe, but where you give yourself the gift of shutting the world out and remembering that you are whole and perfect and everything is okay. Like, it really is okay. And when you can learn to do that every once—for yourself—every once in a while—for yourself—it—it will help your life. It has helped mine tremendously. And usually when I'm, you know, whirling off course and things don't feel right and I'm not sleeping well—which, so maybe I should be talking to myself right now about that—I'm not sleeping well, but usually during those times I'm not being quiet and listening to that inner voice and shutting everything down. And it—it is a practice and it's not easy. At first, you're, like, sitting there thinking, what am I doing? Why am I doing this? This is a waste of time. What—and in time you can—you can get to a point where you can be really, really quiet with yourself. And it's healing. It's really, really healing and wonderful. So that's what I hope that you listen to just now.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Thanks mom. [Rafielle and Callie laugh.]
 
 

Callie Zamzow: You're welcome. You're welcome. Okay, so now I'm guessing that we get to the point where I get to ask you some questions little missy.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Oh boy.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Yay! Okay. What drew you to NYU? I think our listeners would love the story.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Yeah, this is a pretty awesome story. And the gift just keeps on giving with it, too. So eight years ago—or is it nine? That Clint came into our lives.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Nine.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Nine years ago, my mom and my stepdad got together. And I mean, as a kid from divorced parents, like, it's always kind of difficult to have a new outsider come into your family and, like, as a second grader, invade your home and change the—the routine and how things are run and where the milk goes in the fridge. [Callie laughs.]
 
 

Callie Zamzow: That's still a bone of contention.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Yes, it is very much so. It's—it's really difficult. So when he decided that he wanted to take us to New York City that first year that we were a family, I was like, okay, I can—I can live with this guy. This is fine. Like, I can deal with him—and New York City, of course—like, the city. And I want to be there. Don't even know anything about it. I want to be there. But before we got to go, Clint came to me and said, before we go, I want you to do research and figure out things you want to see, things you want to do when we get to the city. And so I started ticking away famous people that I like—what's—what's in this city, da-da-da-da. And I found out that my idol, Lady Gaga, lives in New York City. I was like, oh my gosh, I have to know where she lives. I have to know everything. So that got put on the list and ended up snowballing into me researching where she grew up, what school she went to, and what college she went to. And I found out that she went to NYU Tisch, and without knowing anything about the school, I said, I'm going to NYU Tisch. That's where I'm going to school. And over the years, I've been in New York several times, and we make a point pretty much yearly to go and walk the campus of NYU. And we toured it during, like, COVID times. And I got to see inside some of the buildings and where the dorms are, and Washington Square Park, and I got to see all of it. And of course, finding out that my stepdad was an alumni there just really was like, whoa, this is, like, legit-legit. And people from Idaho actually get to go to school here. Like, this is it. It's far out, but it's not that far out. And it slowly just became more and more solidified in my heart that that is where I was meant to go to school. And after eight years of really difficult relationships in school and pushing myself really hard in school and everything that just has happened over the last eight years in the world and in my own life, it came to college—like, college application season—and I wasn't going to apply to NYU because I didn't think I had a shot at getting in with how high the record was for—I think they broke the record this year for how many applicants there were for NYU, and the acceptance rate just starts plummeting, and watching those numbers go inversely up and down. I didn't think I had a shot at all, especially at Tisch, which is even more selective. And we went and spent Christmas in New York, and my mom made me walk to campus one last time. And, [tearful.] she convinced me to apply, and she said, you might as well shoot your shot because you don't want to look back and regret not having put yourself out there. And so I did. And during spring break—actually, no, before spring break—I had to do auditions and memorize a bunch of monologues and songs and everything. And I'm working on it on family vacations and in all my spare time and recording things at school and bugging everybody about these crazy auditions that I'm doing, all with the hopes that I get into this dream school. And on spring break, I got waitlisted. And I remember I was in Mexico and I opened it up on my computer and I called my mom as I opened the email and it said waitlisted. And she goes, that's not a no. It's not a no. It's not a no.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: I've never been so excited about a not-a-no in my whole life.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Never been so excited about a maybe.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: That's right.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: So time goes by, I'm waiting for the waitlist. And I ended up accepting my spot at Pace University because I hadn't heard back from NYU. Pace University—I'd be going into the business program. I wouldn't be going to the program that I wanted, but at least I'd be in New York. And six days later, I was going into work at the Chinden Zamzows—and I went to go clock in or send my supervisor my time—the time that I started working—and I got an email. And, of course, every single day after I got on the waitlist, I'm checking my email like a madman. Like, come on, this has got to be the email. So I tap on it out of instinct and it says, Important update—NYU Admissions. I'm like, oh my God, this is—this is—this is it. Like, this is where I figure out whether I'm in or out. And, dear friend of mine, Tracy, is standing right near—near me, and she's like, well, open it. And I'm fumbling the—the username and the password and I'm shaking and I'm all nervous. My palms are sweaty, so my phone's all sticky, and I'm just trying to get these in. And I open it up and it says, congratulations. We are, like, so excited to inform you that you have been accepted to NYU Tisch. And I—like, I practically dropped to the floor, just like, I got in. I'm in complete shock. And I hug Tracy and I take off running towards the parking lot, and she goes, where are you going? And I yell, I've got to call my mom. So I get her on the phone and I'm sobbing in the parking lot.

Callie Zamzow: I mean, this is like—I have to set the stage—for another mother who's listening to this—like, she's bawling into the phone and I know that she's been driving. She's driving to work. [Rafielle: Mhm.] So my mind immediately went to she's been in a car accident.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: I'm sobbing and I'm yelling, like, mom, I got in, I got into NYU and she's like, Rafielle, I don't understand what you're saying. Like, calm down, calm down.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Everything's going to be okay. Slow down. Take a deep breath.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: What are you trying to tell me? And I'm like, mom, I got into NYU Tisch. And then she takes off with the same response that I had.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: I was—at the office, and Clint, my husband, works at, like, the kitty-corner for me. And so I go running out of my office—I've got the phone in my hand, I'm bawling and blubbering—and Clint thinks that Rafi’s been in a car accident.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: I mean, I have a completely clean driving record, and of course I've gotten—I've gotten in a wreck. [Rafielle and Callie laugh.]
 
 

Callie Zamzow: You know, that was the first thing we thought of. It's always what parents do. You just wait. You just wait.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Oh, great. [Callie laughs.] So yeah, we had the whole I-got-in. I didn't even go to work. We drove straight home and accepted my spot and got everything rolling—denied Pace—everything. Just got it rolling. And, all of this is just absolutely amazing. And I get to the day of my graduation party—after all is said and all is done—I'm going to New York. Plans have been made, plane flights have been scheduled, and my mom and stepdad surprise me with Yankee tickets to go see, like, a Yankee-Red Sox baseball game. Because as I'm going to New York, I feel like I need to be a Yankee fan. So I'm going to be a true New Yorker. And it's this stack of paper with the tickets on it—not, like, the Ticketmaster tickets—and I'm flipping through it, and there's only two up front. And, of course, I'm going to go look at, like, the three tickets for the three of us while there's a stack of paper sitting in front of me, and my stepdad plays coy and he says, oh, did they not all print? Oh, that's annoying. Well, are they in the back or something? I keep flipping through and I get to the last page and there's a picture of Lady Gaga in, like, her Mother Mayhem getup on the back page and I drop to the floor and I started sobbing like I had been accepted to NYU all over again. Like, I was in child's pose on the floor sobbing.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: It was—as the gift giver—it was the best reaction ever.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Oh yeah, by the way, the gift is getting to go see Lady Gaga in New York at Madison Square Garden.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Yeah. So this is, like—this is the bizarre thing. Clint and I—are trying to figure out what to do for her for graduation present. We're racking our brain and he comes running into the kitchen—Raffi wasn't there—and he's like, oh, you're not gonna believe this. And he's like Lady Gaga's playing Madison Square Garden, like, the day before Raffi moves in. And I was like, what? And then we're—okay, we got to make this happen for her. Now, they're nosebleeds. They're not going to be, like, great tickets, but she's going, by golly.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: I'll be in the venue. But how full circle is all of that? Like, from the very beginning, Gaga being my inspiration to even, like, look at New York schools and then to get into the exact school and the exact, like, program that she got into—that I set my sights and heart on in the fifth grade—eight years later. [Callie: It's pretty remarkable.] And then to get to see her [Callie: It’s such a cool story.]—to get to see her the night before I move in. It's so—it's—
 
 

Callie Zamzow: It's mind-blowing. Every time we retell the story, it's—it's awesome.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: It's so much to wrap my brain around.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: I know. Everything is right now. Okay. This is a good question that I want to ask you next. Is there anything you're actually looking forward to leaving behind when you go? And be very careful how you answer this. [Callie and Rafielle laugh.]
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Yes. I do need to be—Um like, time-wise or physically like, what I'm excited to leave behind?
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Either. Is there something that just comes to mind that you're like, you know this, I'm not going to miss that?
 
 

Rafielle Novak: High school.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Yeah.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: High school sucked. [Callie laughs.]
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Yeah, I know.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: I didn't like the school, and I—I got bullied. I struggled with the people at the school. I struggled with the teachers. It was always a power struggle, which—why would I have a power struggle with a teacher? I don't know, maybe—
 
 

Callie Zamzow: You are a force to be—you’re a force to be reckoned with. Let's be honest. [Callie and Rafielle laugh.]
 
 

Rafielle Novak: [Rafielle and Callie sigh.] Did we just sigh in the exact—
 
 

Callie Zamzow: We might have. We might have. [Callie and Rafielle laugh.] Okay. You know, I think that's—that's—that's real. [Rafiellle: Mhm.] That's—I think—and honestly, if you have had a great high school experience, there's still okay with being a—
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Yeah, I'd still be excited to leave because I'm going to NYU. But other than that, it's tough. I would say, like, I'm excited to not drive, but in not driving in New York, I'm giving up that, like, super private, sacred singing time that I have in my car. [Callie laughs.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: I get it. So that's what showers are for.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: So—I mean, I do love a good—good shower concert, but I'm not sure how much my roommates will appreciate that.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Oh, they'll appreciate it. In special ways they will, I'm sure. I have—I actually still have friends from college that—there are three of us that were more theatrical. And just to be clear, I did not go for theater. I went for biology. But I did sing with a group. And those—those girls, when we get together, we still sing some of our old songs, and our friends are like, no, you are not singing “Castle on a Cloud.” We don't want to hear it for the 89th time, you know. No, you cannot. [Rafielle laughs.] Yeah. I don't want to hear the whole rundown of “Hamilton.” Thank you. Like, it's so funny.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Hurts my heart.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: I know, I know, but that's why I've got you. See, we can do that all the time. Here's a good question. So, what is something—like, one thing you can think of from growing up that you think will really help you in college?
 
 

Rafielle Novak: [thinking] Mmmmm.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Please make the there be something. [Callie and Rafielle laugh.]
 
 

Rafielle Novak: I gotta think—can you repeat the question?
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Yes. What's one thing from growing up that you think will really help you in college?
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Being able to roll with the flow. When I was little, with the divorce and with, like, everything changing, I was really, really stubborn. And I didn't want anything to change because I didn't know how to deal with change. And as I got older and more and more change happened and more—like, the more drastic the changes became as I got older, the more I kind of figured out that I can't control everything. I can't have a grasp on everything because I—I'm just—I'm just me. I can't control every situation in the whole wide world that I will ever come across. And being able to roll with the flow has helped me a lot. Navigating relationships, navigating school, navigating home—everything. Literally and physically navigating home. Being able to roll with the flow has really helped me, and I think that is going to be, like, the key thing that I take with me to college—being able to roll with the flow. If I miss the subway, well, guess we're walking. Gotta roll with the flow. If I don't like my roommate—which I think I will—but worst comes to worst, I just gotta roll with the flow. Gotta figure it out. If I don't know where my classes are, I just have to roll with the flow. And especially in such a big city with so much hustle and bustle, being able to roll with the flow—Is there any other way I can say roll with the flow? Or should I just keep saying it a million times? [Callie laughs.] Being able to navigate that more easily—is that a better way to say roll with the flow? You know what? Who cares. Being able to do that, I think, will really be a handy and nice tool in my back pocket.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: I do admire that you can do that.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: I try.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Yeah, that's good stuff. Is there—and I don't know, I was trying to think about—I was trying to think what your answer would be on this one, but is there a ritual or a habit that you want to hold on to once you're on your own? Aside from, you know, brushing your teeth and—all those things? {Callie and Rafielle laugh] Aside from all those things, are there any little things that you do on a regular basis that you want to hold on to?
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Mmm, I mean, that's really tough because I do a lot of the same things, but they're very Boise things, and I don't know if they will stay a part of my, like, everyday life when I move over there.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: I sing a lot of the time. I sing in sentences sometimes. So, I mean, usually you sing in sentences—what I’m trying to say is, I'll sing what I'm saying.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Yes, I know. We both do that.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: You know what I'm talking about.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: [singing] Oh I know. [Rafielle laughs.] I'm well aware of what you're talking about.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: [singing] Thank you mom. [Rafielle and Callie laugh.] So I'll probably end up doing that. That's kind of routine for me. As I'm getting ready, I'll kind of sing through my outfit. I did that on my way here. I do it all the time, so I'll probably end up doing that…Oh, I'll probably end up setting ten alarms each morning.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: [sarcastic] That could be fun for your roommate.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: The first 15 minutes of my day, I have an alarm go off every five minutes. And then from then to the time I need to leave, it's every 15 minutes. So that is how I stay on track.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: All right. That's—let me know how that goes. [Callie and Rafielle laugh.]
 
 

Rafielle Novak: I will.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: How about—let's talk about Boise. Let's talk about this town that you—town is now one—city that you grew up in. Are there little things about Boise, maybe places that you're going to miss? Or—I mean, I—I'm going to guess there's probably some people you're going to miss, but what are some things about Boise itself that you're going to miss in New York City, which does not resemble Boise in so many ways at all?
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Yeah. Well, there are physical places and there's things about the places that I think of when you ask that question. So first what comes to mind is—I mean, obviously my home—but, like, knowing the layout of everything that is very Boise is, like, everybody knows where Camel's Back Park is, where the mall is, where the Village is. Like, no—well, that's Meridian—whatever.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Still, it’s in the Valley.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: You kind of know where everything is, and it's—everybody knows what I'm talking about. Like, oh, you know, like, Cam—Parilla Grill on 13th Street—like, most people know what I'm talking about. If they don't know the restaurant, they know the streets, they know the area. So I'm going to kind of miss that small-town feel where everybody knows where everything is. And I wouldn't say everybody knows everybody anymore, but there's almost that kind of feel. There's a spider web where everybody can figure—oh, you know him? I know him too. We should know each other. That kind of feeling.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Mmm, yes.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Yes. I kind of forgot the other thing I was going to say, but that—that for sure is very Boise that I'm going to miss in New York…Oh, I remember. I'm going to be a nobody in New York. [Callie laughs.] When I'm here, I'm Callie's daughter. I'm Callie Zamzow's daughter. I'm Jim Zamzow's granddaughter. I'm—I'm—I guess that’s kind of it.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: You’re part of the legacy. So it's—kind of—looms large here.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Yeah. I've worked in the stores. Everybody I've ever gone to school with kind of knows me because of that.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: And when I get to New York, they're going to be like, Zamzows?
 
 

Callie Zamzow: And you'll say, Zamzows, but who cares?
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Yeah, I'll say, that's not how the jingle goes, but cool. It's fine.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Yeah, I when I went to college—and again, I didn't go as far as you did—but when I went to college, people were like, that's a weird name. And I'm like, no, it's not. Everybody knows that name. That's very strange to leave here because you will find that people find it to be a very odd name. And where is that from, and what is your background? [Rafielle: Mhm.] And, yeah, it's kind—And also there's a novelty in new places about Idaho in particular. I mean, in California, they just—you know, I became “the potato,” and, you know, I was like, oh, you know, the Idaho girl or whatever. And—and so you will definitely have that because I don't think there's going to be very many Idahoans—and certainly not Boiseans—that are going to be there at the same time you are. So yeah, you'll probably get that from your—from your friends and whatnot. They'll tell you that.
 Rafielle Novak: I looked up the statistics—or, like, the numbers of percentile of NYU students that are from different states. [Callie: Oh?]
 
 

Rafielle Novak: And Idaho wasn't on the list.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Oh, wow. I was—thought you’re gonna say Idaho was—but we weren't even on the list.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: No.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Okay.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Not even on the list. And so Idaho makes up less than 0.04%—
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Oh, wow—
 
 

Rafielle Novak: —of NYU.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Well, and that—and honestly, I leaned into that. I love that. The fact—you will get a lot of people saying you're from the Midwest. I'm like, no, I'm not—technically Pacific Northwest. You'll get a lot of Iowa and Ohio and—yeah. So that'll—it'll be fun. You'll get to teach people a little geography and see what kind of fun—
 
 

Rafielle Novak: [sarcastic] I mean, coming from someone who's so good at geography, that'll be great.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: First time ever, you'll be able to stretch that muscle.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Oh, gosh. Okay, well, this is the time where we take a moment and we thank our sponsor.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Mom, can I do it?
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Sure!
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Okay. This episode is brought to you by Zamzows. Zamzows is proud to support growing things, whether it's a lawn, a tomato plant, a puppy, or a daughter like me heading to college. Learn more about how Zamzows can help build a thriving garden, lawn, or pet at Zamzows.com or at our 12 convenient Treasure Valley locations. Now we got to sing the jingle, right?
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Sure
 
 

Callie Zamzow and Rafielle Novak: [singing] Nobody knows like Zamzows. [Callie and Rafielle laugh.]
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Nicely done. Let's start the Sharing Is Caring portion. Are you ready for this?
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Sure.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: So this—this particular part of the segment, we do kind of a quick—quick lightning round, and these are just kind of quick questions and quick answers. So are you ready?
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Yeah.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Okay. So first question, what is your current song that you have on repeat right now—that you're listening to over and over? And if it has a cuss word in it, please don't say.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: In the name?
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Yeah in the name. Because I don't know that you have songs right now that don't have inflammatory language in your music style right now. [Callie and Rafielle laugh.] Your music style right now is interesting.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Okay, well, I've got, like, one in a couple genres, so I've got, like, three on repeat right now.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: All right.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Um, as far as country goes, I've got “Kisser in Front of You” by Morgan Wallen.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: All right.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: It's a big one. I love his new album, but that one's stuck in my head. I have “The Color Violet” by Tory Lanez stuck in my head. And them I have “Vanish Into You” by Lady Gaga from her Mayhem album.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Okay.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: As you know, because I was singing it in the mirror this morning.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Yes
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Well, I got to get boned up on those songs, so—
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Oh, no—“Shadow of a Man.” That one's more so than “Vanish Into You.”
 
 

Callie Zamzow: I'm glad you corrected that. That's—
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Thank you.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: That's really helpful to our listeners. Okay. What is—what's a quote or a mantra that is grounding for you?
 
 

Rafielle Novak: I'm going to use my yearbook quote.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Mmm, I like it.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: And I'm going to say Natasha Bedingfield—she said, “Here is where your book begins. The rest is still unwritten.” It's—it's like, I know the story. I know my past. But everything that's happening in front of me, I don't know—it's unwritten—but someday it will be a part of the book, and it's going to be a very exciting chapter. So, that’s like my go-to quote.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: That's awesome. I love that. How about your favorite late-night snack, sweetheart?
 
 

Rafielle Novak: SweetTart Ropes, cherry punch flavored. [Callie laughs.]
 
 

Callie Zamzow: What? I knew you were going to say that. That's awesome. [Rafielle: Mhm.] And it's so delightfully nutritious right before bed. {Callie and Rafielle laugh.]
 
 

Callie Zamzow: I'm gonna get letters. You are not. You're—you're not being a good mother. [Rafielle laughs.] Okay. How about a favorite new show or movie?
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Mmm, let's see—I've got three shows on rotation right now. Got Lucifer, How I Met Your Mother—which is, like, my fifth time watching that show [Callie laughs.]—and Stranger Things that I'm watching for the first time.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Yeah. All right. Everything happens in threes with you.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: I think it's a good number.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: I guess I—I agree. Okay. Now we're going to switch to the question that we ask all of our guests. You know our jingle. What is the—what's the—what's the—the—the tagline? “Nobody knows like Zamzows.” Right. Okay. So we ask everybody, what is something that nobody knows?
 
 

Rafielle Novak: That's a great question, because usually the things that nobody knows, I like to tell people. [Callie laughs.]
 
 

Callie Zamzow: You pretty much tell everybody what you—
 
 

Rafielle Novak: I bet you didn't know this about me—here’s this little segment—Oh, no. I don't know.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Okay. I have—about this—what do people not know about me? Keep it clean.

Rafielle Novak: Hmmmm.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Dun-dun-dun. [Rafielle laughs.] Keep it clean.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Oh my gosh. Okay, here's a little fun thing about my mom. So when we go to Maui, there's a shaved ice place called Ululani's, and they have this, like, local flavor. They also have a syrup and a powder of it. It's called li hing mui. And someone—I'm not pointing fingers, except for pointing a finger—really, really, really, really, really, really, really likes li hing mui. Really. And to the point that she went on Amazon and bought a bag of li hing mui powder, and she keeps it in the car, because when we go get frozen yogurt, she brings it in with her, puts it on her fro-yo. [Rafielle laughs.]
 
 

Callie Zamzow: It's the best. On—on, like, a Dole Whip. Because li hing mui—if you haven't had it before, it's, like, salty and kind of tart and sweet. Like, it's a really unique flavor. It comes from, like, a pickled plum, I want to say. So they grind it into this powder that's bright red and makes your tongue bright red. But if you put it—if you sprinkle it on, like, a Dole Whip—like the pineapple Dole Whips—there's nothing like it.[Rafielle laughs.] It's so good. But at Ululani's, I get the syrup that's li hing mui. I get the concentrate, and then I get the powder on top.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Yeah, it's just a bowl of li hing mui. You might as well be eating the pickled plums.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: And my face is like—my mouth and my lips are, like, bright red after we—after we do that.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: Yeah, it can't combat my blue raspberry, though.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: That's true. That is true. It's always more potent than yours.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Oh, we've got such wonderful moments together, Rafi. I just—I love it so much. This has been more delightful than you could possibly imagine. I'm going to try to get through this ending here without crying. But thank you. Thank you for doing this for me. It's—this—it means a lot to me. And I hope that the listeners enjoyed it, too. I certainly enjoyed it tremendously. So I appreciate that you took the time to do this. And this is really—this is going to be a hard guest to top. I'm telling you, you were pretty—pretty fantastic, because you're one of my favorite people in the whole wide world. So thank you, Raffi, for being here with us today. And if you enjoyed today's podcast, follow—follow the podcast, leave us a review, and, you know, maybe call your mom.
 
 

Rafielle Novak: I love you, mom.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Ugh, I love you, too.
 
 

Callie Zamzow: Okay. Thank you for listening to the show. We'll catch you next week.

[Music fades out.]